MPEG-2 VBR 2-Pass XSVCD

[logster]

Hi ... I am trying to put about 95 min onto 2 SVCD so I am using 2 pass VBR with TMpegEnc 0-3000 with avg 2000, 720x480. Ok so I let it encode for a few days and it worked out kinda nice for 2 80 min cds.

I burned it and it plays back fine on my DVD player. Now the problem is that the quality is not all that great - it is very good but not close-to-DVD good. Slow moving scenes are excellent but fast moving scenes and scenes with fire show quite a bit of pixellation ... I realize that svcd standard res is 480x480 but if I choose that and a higer bitrate, will I get rid of this problem that happens on faster sequences ?

I have combed the fourms of this and a few other sites and it does not really seem that there is much I can do if I want this to fit in 2 CDs. But are there filters I can use to make it better ? Other than the obvious resolution difference, is there a visible quality difference between 480x480 and 720x480 ? Please suggest anything you think would be helpful.

One more thing. I set up chapters under VCDEasy but skipping chapters does not seem to work on my dvd player (APEX 1500) any idea why ? THanks.

[adam]

First off, you are not going to get DVD quality in a SVCD or even an XSVCD unless you use an insane number of disks and go way outside of the standard. A properly done SVCD should be about as good as S-VHS.

720x480 is an absolutely horrible resolution to use at SVCD'ish bitrates. You have nearly twice as many pixels to encode as a standard SVCD and are still limited to the same amount of bitrate. What this ammounts to is a bits per pixel ratio that is less than VCD! So basically your quality will probably be no better than a VCD, and in many cases worse. You will surely have noticable artifacts in many scenes.

From 720x480 to 480x480 there is a noticable difference in sharpness. SVCDS are not as crisp looking as DVDS but with the lower resolution you actually achieve a bits per pixel ratio that isn't too far off from dvds.

You will actually get much higher quality results at 480x480 so give that a try first and then see if your happy with it. You can always tweak your method further.

Also are you encoding in ntscfilm with the 3:2 pulldown? That is the single most significant thing you can do to increase your quality.

[logster]

ok ... thanks for the info ... I will redo it at 480x480. But what will the pulldown do ? my source is already at 29.97 fps. And is it safe to assume that 2pass vbr will always turn a better quality video than the others ? Thanks.

[vhelp]

logster,

you did not tell us what your SOURCE is! That could very well be your
problem! ie, if you talking about VHS as your source, then yes, you
will have pixelation problems, depending on your encoding skills level.
But, if you're talking about DVD as your source, then as Adam
said.

As far as the 3:2 pulldown that Adam was talking about, he was
refereing to (assuming your source was a DVD and you used dvd2avi and
created an *.d2v file to frameserve into TMPG) is when you select,
under dvd2avi, the Force Film option, instead of the No
film, then when you frameserve it to tmpg, you select 23fps, and
then select 3:2 pulldown. If you ustill cant figure this out as
I've stated it here, then you need to read to your left the FAQ and
do some searching via this FORUM's Search on 3:2 pulldown and frame
rates, etc., and do LOTs of reading and LOTs of trial and error
till you nail it.

And, no filter will help you if your source is DVD. DVD is as clean as
it's going to be. Some here will say that they find some noise in their
DVDs, but I say hogwash! Never the less, you can still try it by using
the Temporal smoother or tmpg's Noise Reduction, but bare
in mind, that this will double or almost triple you encoding time, and
as I've just finished rading your post, you said it took all day! Is it
really worth it to now add filters to a DVD? (assuming again, that you
source is DVD)
But, make note, that not all DVDs are processed the same way w/ the same
level of difficulty or quality. Some DVD's are great looking, and others
are not so great looking, but still look great on your TV/PC monitor,...
just not so great when you RIP and encode it some times, to some extent.
This will be kind of hard to swallow above, but its very true. You don't
really notice any qulaity loss when viewed on your TV, but depending on
how you view it on your PC monitor for the video encoding part, you may
notice that you can't get a certain level of quality from it, no matter
what you do! It will take some time and a level of skill to understand
what exactly am I talking about here, but for those who are at my level
of skills and beyond know what I'm talking about here.
In any case, factor the above in, when you run into another stump of
blocks/pixelations, etc. "I guess it's one of those DVDs..."
I know it sound a bit far-fetched, but believe me, it makes plenty sense
to me.

Where the noise reducing filters come in mostly, is when your source is
from a capture card, as these produce noise, ranging from your:
* card
* wires or cables used for capturing, etc.
* hardware setup
* AC outlet arrangement (mine, proudce nasty lines during captures)
* other AC outlet interence, such as TOO many wires connected to one
outlet or powerstrip, etc. vs. equipment(s) TOO close to each other and
give off ADDitional noise during captures, etc.
* anything else I left out here in this list - just add to it.

Note, there is no Perfect noise reducing filter that will work for every
given video source vs. equipment vs. your skills etc. What might work
great in one person's process, will probably not work so well in yours.
The best you can do is try, try and try some more.

Their are other format to try besides standard SVCD. Just keep
reading the posts or do searches on this FORUM and you'll find others.
But, my guess is that you're begining this stuff, and as such, you're
better off sticking with SVCD (since you started there) and keep trying
to improve on it till you feel you got it to an acceptable comprimise
in settings vs. quality, etc.

So, get it out of your mind that you will get DVD quality, no matter HOW
many times you hear other people here say, "it's DVD quality on mine!!"
cause what one person see's as "DVD quality" is MUD in anothers' eyes.
So, take those rumors with a grain of salt or is it sand!, he,he...
If you want DVD quality, BUY your OWN DVD movies, and play them. Other
wise, you'll have to settle with the current process you are embarking
on for now, till things get better, ie, your skills, or the whole video
DVD encoding/mpeg/capturing/DV, bla, bla, bla.

Other than all this mumbo-jumbo i just mentioned above, this and other
reason's why people go the real-time or better yet, hardware mpeg1/2
devices all-together. No headackes, ...until it's time to autor, he, he...

So, my advise is to KEEP fidling w/ the SVCD settings,
* mostly the bitrate, till you feel it's better than your prev., and
figure on making some comprimises.
* research the 3:2 pulldown process
* research the frame rate, hence Adam's advise on NTSC film, etc.
* visit DOOM9.com for most of these guides in addition to this FORUMs, as
some people here say their's offer a different point of view (better) of
instructions, etc.

That's about it. Good luck!

-vhelp

[logster]

Ok ... thanks a lot for the info ... I am doing a whole bunch of trial runs and 480x480 with the pulldown and 2pass VBR seems most promising so far. I have to still do a whole bunch more with various combinations of settings. Thanks.

[ViperXT]

At that bitrate, I would recommend 352 x 480 for many reasons. For more info do a forum search for "CVD".