DV to DVD-R

[wesmoc]

I'm pulling my hair out today, which is not a good thing since I don't have much left..

I've been plugging away at this for a couple of weeks (going on three, now), and I have finally figured that:
o Sonic's MyDVD is ok, but lacks a buttload of features that are so bleedinly obvious, it hurts.
o It can grab at 8Mb/sec for video, but audio is horrible at 128.
o Ulead's MovieFactory has most of what Sonic's MyDVD offers and has a bunch of features, too, but it is also lacking.
o It has a horrible VBR of 6Mb/sec, but audio is good at 224.
o Adobe Premier 6.02 is great for capturing and editing!!

Ok, with that said, I have tried my darned-est to get the best possible quality out of the DV video and on to DVD-R with my Pioneer A04.

So, MyDVD grabs video well, audio sucks, and the menu/chapter features are lacking severely. MovieFactory has some nice features, but their video capture is awful. So, an 'all-in-one' capture and author program looks like it isn't there yet.

So, Adobe Premier looks like a fine choice for capturing and editing, and it is. And, after many tries at a huge handful of authoring programs, SpruceUp looks like it is the best authoring application (Hey, I don't want to drop a lot of money on an authoring package, and the cracked version works just fine) with the most flexibility. I figure I can use that until the others 'catch up'. Sad..

Anyhow, both SpruceUp and MovieFactory will import only valid DVD MPEG2 compliant files. MyDVD is a little more flexible in that it will transcode the imported AVI (not DV AVI) or non-standard MPEG2 file to a valid MPEG2 stream before creating the DVD. Believe me, this is a nice feature.

Anyhow, how in the heck can you create a valid MPEG2 file that will play on a SET TOP BOX. TMPGEnc creates MPEG2 Video and MPEG Audio, which is fine for a computer, but most set top boxes cannot understand MPEG Audio (lucky me, my Pioneer PV-DV434 cannot understand the MPEG audio).

I'd love to create the MPEG2 file with PCM audio, since these are just homemade video with stereo sound, but I cannot find any way to do it.

I've tried using bbMPEG as a Premier plugin, too, and that creates MPEG2 streams that have invalid header information, so SpruceUp and MovieFactory will not even touch those files.

Interestingly enough, MovieFactory captures and burns out a good disk, but it creates the audio as MPEG, as well.. kind of limits its usage.

Anyhow, I am at the point where I am asking: How can I get my DV Video to a DVD-R to play on my set top box with good quality video (8Mb/sec) and audio (224) using a decent authoring program (Chapter marks, thumbnail image setting, background audio for menus, ability to move buttons, etc)?

My path looks like:
DV Camera ---> Adobe Premier --> TMPGEnc --> MPEG2 file --> Miracle happens --> SpruceUp --> Nero --> DVD-R

I've tried bbMPEG in there, but then the resulting MPEG2 file is non-compliant.. well, SpruceUp and MovieFactory barf on reading the file, although it plays happily in Media Player and MyDVD takes it without complaints.

*sigh* I am at my wits end.

For sanity sake, I confirmed that the DVD burner worked. I make a quick and easy copy of the original "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" just to prove it to myself that it could be done.

[jmproductions]

here is how i do it. DV to vegas video 3 to an AVI file then i open virtualdub and make a wav file and send the video to CCE then into spruce or dvdit pe to get it into spruce the video and wav file have to have the same name in the same directory. TMPG should work fine if you load the dvd ntsc settings.

[wesmoc]

Ahh.. So, the files should be seperate.. named the same, just different extensions (.mpg and .wav).

So, I could :
o Grab with Premier.
o Output two AVI files: one for audio and one for video.
o Convert the video file to MPEG2 with TMPGEnc.
o Convert the audio file to convert the video to MPEG2 via TMPGEnc.
o Convert the audio AVI file to WAV with Virtuadub
o Make the names of the two resulting files the same
o Then import them in to SpruceUp

And from there, I should be good to go? Or am I missing something?

[f_kruegar]

i need to know this as well.. i got 15gb of miniDV footage and i want to make a dvd-r with my pioneer 104. let me know if you get anywhere with this.

[Faustus]

I've just been grabbing the video with Ulead Videostudio then converting the DV to MPEG with TMPGenc (using various settings for different projects) then doing the Authoring with DVD Moviefactory.

Kinda the long way around but its the best I've come up with so far.

[wesmoc]

Interesting bit about using Ulead VideoStudio then TMPGenc. I thought VideoStudio saved the grabbed data as MPEG, not DV... hrmm.. I'll have to look at that again.

Anyhow, I'm ok with the capturing part, it's the encoding that I am having difficulty with specifically because the resulting MPEG2 file contains the audio encoded as MPEG, which the vast majority of set top boxes cannot handle.

I'm going to try things again tonight. I'm hoping to get this tackled,then.

[f_kruegar]

great.. let us know the outcome.. i really want to do this but i did a test run and the quality wasnt up to par.. i mean i did capture w/pinnacle.. and its just like the original.. straight thru firewire.. but when i put it to mpg2/dvd format it looks bad.. worse then vcd.. wtf gives..

good luck.. i really need to learn this..

[EricB]

Well I've done this for a while and I use Premiere to edit the DV, frameserve using avisynth to TMPGenc. There are lots of arguments about how to make the most efficient file (best quality with least space) but just try the standard DVD template. Author the resulting file with Ulead MovieFactory and the result should be excellent.

[wesmoc]

Well, I can say I was finally successful at doing this, but it took a little work.

First off, the idea of having the video and audio in seperate files is something I had not fully grasped, but it seems that it works out best that way.

Here is what I did:
o I slurped the data in from DV tape using Premier.
o Trimmed/edited, cut and pasted all in premier.
o When all of that nonsense was done, I selected File->Export Clip->Movie
o By default, it will not export the audio, so I was ok there.
o I exported it to a "Microsoft AVI" file, not a Microsoft DV AVI file.
o When that was complete, I selected File->Export Timeline->Audio.
o When that was done (took a lot less time than exporting the video), I
exited out of Premier and fired up avi2wav.
o I took the audio-only AVI file and converted that to a WAV file.
o I exited out of avi2wav.
o I then fired up TMPGEnc and selected the template for doing an NTSC DVD with a CBR of 8Mb/sec.
o I made sure to also select VIDEO ONLY.
o I selected my Video AVI file to be created as an MPEG-2 file (.m2v).
o When that was done, I exited out of TMPGEnc.
o I went back and double checked that the filename of the WAV file was called "Sample.wav" and the filename of the MPEG2 file was called "Sample.m2v". This is important..
o Finally, I fired up SpruceUp, and was able to import the Video-only MPEG2 (m2v) file, and SpruceUp automatically loaded the corresponding WAV file.
o I created my DVD, and walked over to the DVD player (Pioneer PV-DV434) and it played with no problem.

I am sure that things can easily be streamlined. For one, avi2wav states that it can grab the audo from any file, so if it was pointed towards the original DV AVI file that was grabbed from the camera, the Export Timeline step could probably be avoided.

Also, if bbMPEG were used as a Premier Plugin, the video could be exported directly to MPEG2 format rather than going to "Microsoft AVI" (which takes an ungodly amount of time) and then through TMPGEnc to become an MPEG2 file.

Anyhow, all of this guarantees that the audio is PCM to which the stand alone dvd player will understand (the alternative is to encode is as AC3, but I haven't even bothered to look at that for reasons that you could easily guess).[/list]

[wesmoc]

Been there, that's for sure...

The problem is definitely the authoring program or encoding program you are using. I tried all-in-one programs like MyDVD and MovieFactory, both of which had bitrate limitations (MyDVD 3.1 has a maximum bitrate of 6Mb/sec, which is ok for most video, but sucks majorly if you are looking for high clarity, and Movie Factory has a Variable Bit Rate, with a max of 6Mb/sec), most importantly was that they were really not configurable.

MyDVD 3.5 is almost there in that it now encodes at 8Mb/sec (CBR), but the audio sampling sucks. But it lacks in some key authoring features (chapter marks,etc).

I must have been doing something wrong with MovieFactory, though.. It kept encoding the captured audio (right from the camera) as MPEG, which my stand alone DVD player didn't understand.. or, at least, didn't play. I got the video, just no audio.

It looked great on the computer, though...

Anyhow, you need to control the bitrate that the video is encoded at.. that will control just how good it looks on the TV screen.. That, and -how- it is encoded... for example, for the best quality (imho), you want an encoder that can handle encoding high motion video well so that it reduces pixelization for events where people move their arms a lot, or wave, etc.

great.. let us know the outcome.. i really want to do this but i did a test run and the quality wasnt up to par.. i mean i did capture w/pinnacle.. and its just like the original.. straight thru firewire.. but when i put it to mpg2/dvd format it looks bad.. worse then vcd.. wtf gives..

good luck.. i really need to learn this..

[/i][/b]

[wesmoc]

Hrmm.. I've seen references to frameserve via avisynth, but what in the world does it really mean?

Also, what kind of resulting file do you get? MPEG2 with Video & Audio? Is the audioPCM or MPEG?

Anything easier is a good thing.

Well I've done this for a while and I use Premiere to edit the DV, frameserve using avisynth to TMPGenc. There are lots of arguments about how to make the most efficient file (best quality with least space) but just try the standard DVD template. Author the resulting file with Ulead MovieFactory and the result should be excellent.

[EricB]

westmoc,

Imagine I created a 2 hour video in Premiere. If I save that file in DV to the hard drive, it will take a lot of time and a lot of space. You also need an operating system and disk format that supports files larger than 4G.

OR...

You could frameserve from Premiere directly to an encoder. Frameserving means you create a dummy file on the drive which acts as a mailbox for both programs. Premiere sends a frame to the mailbox, and the encoder (TMPGenc) encodes the frame. This way, I can skip all the other conversion steps and encode directly to DVD compatible mpeg2.

Then you start DVD MovieFactory and just use the authoring part of it. Don't try to capture with it or anything else. Just select your mpeg file(s) which you created with TMPGenc.

Frameserving is covered in the "Convert" tutorials in the left frame of this screen.

[wesmoc]

Success!

I easily created the MPEG2 video file (m2v) using bbMPEG as a Permier plugin, and I exported the audio (.avi) from Premier. I passed the audio through avi2wav. I then took both files, named them the same (with the .m2v and .wav extensions, of course), and was able to create the DVD via SpruceUp.

It worked flawlessly...

Thanks for all of the help.

Now the real quest is the autoring program. SpruceUp works well, but has limitations of its own (the biggest being that it is no longer available since Apple bought the company back in July 2001)...

[f_kruegar]

how is the quality.. thats what im having trouble with..

[wesmoc]

Ok.. scratch all of that.

I went ahead and created the DVD with SpruceUp (I only have DVDit! 1.1.1, which doesn't match SpruceUp's features), burned it out (still to a DVD-RW.. I'm not into making coasters just yet. , and tossed it in my DVD player.

I was happy with the way the menus came out, thumbnails, shadowing, titles, etc.. Then I played the video.

Blah! It was heavily choppy! Crap.. I took the DVD back over to my machine, and it played fine. Grr... brought it back to the set top box (a Pioneer DV434), and played the coppy video.. the bitrate was pegged at 9.8 (I had set up bbmpeg to do a VBR of 9.8Mb/s max, 6Mb/s average). *sigh* I am not sure if that is the problem..

but..

I went back and took the same original, trimmed it down to like 25 seconds, passed it through TMPGEnc, and fed that into SpruceUp to build the DVD, then burned it out to the same DVD-RW (erasing it beforehand, of course), and what was choppy video was now smooth and crisp like I have been shooting for..

So, the only thing I can say is that the only thing I changed was the encoder from bbMPEG to TMPGEnc. I originally used bbMPEG for convience because it acted as a plugin to Adobe Premier, but if the quality is going to be bad, I don't want to take the chance..

I'm re-doing the entire MPEG2 video stream through TMPGEnc, which should be done about an hour after I get to bed... It's encoding at about 3 times real time (55 minutes of video is taking about 3hrs 10 min to encode) at a CBR of 8Mb/sec.

I'll pass that into SpruceUp tomorrow, and burn my test DVD.

[f_kruegar]

yah let us know... i just ordered some dvd-rw so i can play around and do test and not worry about wasting a dvd-r. i still have lots of editing to do.. i have dvdIt 2.5 so i prob will use that.. i never got SpruceUp but i might look into it..

[wesmoc]

Everything worked BEAUTIFULLY. I captured the video using Adobe Premier, then output'ed the raw DV avi file to disk. Ran that through TMPGEnc as VIDEO ONLY (important) to give me a resulting MPEG2 video stream.

I then went back to Premier and output'ed the AUDIO only as an AVI file of its own. I then ran that through AVI2WAV to create the wav file.

I placed both files into the same directory.

I then fired up SpruceUp, and imported the "Media Asset" of the M2V (te Mpeg2 video only file) and it analyzed it as it slurped it in. When it was done, it slurped in the corresponding audio.

I had no problems creating menus and chapters.. it was nice. I then had SpruceUp create the DVD to hard disk, and I then went in to nero and burned out the DVD-Video from there.

A number of steps, but the resulting disc was fantastic!!

Now, with these steps, the audio is PCM (huge). You can go the route of converting the audio to AC3, but, with all of the apps, I have had a helluva time. besweet, which everyone recommends, creates an AC3 file that Media Player happily plays, but SpruceUp generates a "Media Error" on.

I found a referenced to running ac3fix on the file in a newsgroup, and in doing that on my AC3 file, it ran for a while 'cleaning up' the ac3 file. I still couldn't import it in to SpruceUp as it complained something about an odd bitrate (it did fall in the range SpruceUp said it should be in).

When I played the 'fixed' AC3 file, it played 7 seconds, then restarted the audio.

*sigh*

There has to be an easier way...

[f_kruegar]

hmm.. i am going to have to try as soon as i get some dvd-rw so i can test it.. i already have the DV footage on my HD its 15gb worth and i got to edit/cut some of the shots..etc.. hopefully my dvd-rw's come in this week so i can do a final test to see how it looks on my dvd player.. i did try neoDVD and it accepts DV avi and does it all in one but the menus SUX. hehe not much of options you can do with it.. well atleast from what I saw in the few mins i did a test.. the outcome .vob wasnt bad lookin.. i dunno what kind of settings they use when converting to mpg2.. but it does it all in one step.. video/audio straight from teh DV avi.. i will do more test when i receive my dvd-rw to see which has the best quality..

[LlamaStick]

I've been going through much of what's descibed here.
My Pinnacle AVI files make TMPGEnc crash, so when I found
out about frameserving with AVISynth, and found it doesn't
crash my faith was restored.

I use Premier 5.1. For the audio, you seem to have an
extra step to me. I export the audio with 'Windows Waveform'
as the type on the General Settings. This gives me a WAV
file without any AVI to WAV conversion. 45min project takes
about 5 minutes to produce the audio.
Is this something you've missed, or am I doing myself out of
some quality?

Also, I'm using 2 pass VBR 2000-8000 (6000 average). Is there
something better, or as good but faster? My 1Ghz 512Mb PC takes
25 hours to code 45 minutes.

Come on!! We're nearly there!!

LlamaStick

[wesmoc]

Export as waveform? Doh!

Yes, that *has* to be an extra step on my part. I should just be exporting the audio from Permier as Waveform (didn't realize it was WAV.. duh). I saw that option last night, but it still didn't sink in.

Of course, WAV (PCM) is nice, but now I am fighting to get AC3 (1/10th the file size).

I haven't done the avisynth setup yet as it looks to be a little complicated, and I just want to get things going. BUT, it is looking like it will save some time.

On my AMD 1.4Ghz 512MB machine, it takes about 3.5 hrs to do about an hour worth of video at a CBR of 8Mbps. 2-pass VBR would took much, much longer...