Centropy Episode 2 - PAL to NTSC Conversion

[MattO]

I have had much luck with converting the Centropy Spiderman SVCD to NTSC, but I am having trouble with the new 3CD SVCD of Star Wars.

I am trying to accomplish two things here:

1) Convert the 3 PAL SVCDs to NTSC
2) Fix the Aspect Ratio to be the proper 2.35:1.

I have figured out the correct setting to adjust the picture so that it is not vertically stretched. I set the Video Arrange Method to Center (Custom) and then set it to 480x380. When encoding in NTSC, this sets the aspect ratio to the proper 2.35:1 as seen in the theater.

However, the other problem I have is fitting the same 45 min PAL CD onto an NTSC CD. I tried a straight conversion of the first disc, with a CBR of 2500, and it came out to over 900MB. I know that makes sense when calculating the bitrate, but I don't know how to get around it.

What options can I set when converting this from PAL to NTSC that will meet both of my 2 requirements above? I don't think that doing #2 increases the size of the file any, but I am not sure. Maybe I am wrong in terms of the how Centropy encoded the 3 discs, I don't know.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Spock]

I'm not sure but I think that your main problem here is that you are using CBR for an SVCD. You should be using VBR. That should lower your overall average bitrate and allow for a smaller file.

Spock

[banjazzer]

Why are you converting PAL to NTSC? Most standalone DVD players accept both formats. The NTSC mpg will be bigger because there are 20% more frames. However, you don't get new frames, so you get some of the source frames repeated, which renders the conversion less smooth than the original!

[t0nito]

PAL is 480x576 @ 25 fps. You should risize to 480x480 and slow it down to 23.976 fps using ReStream and use the 3:2 pulldown flag so your DVD player can telecide in realtime.

[banjazzer]

This still rather begs the question - why do it in the first place???

[t0nito]

Because ALL PAL dvd players can play NTSC because europe and japan share region 2 dvds but europe is PAL and japan is NTSC disks but some NTSC players can't play PAL.

[t0nito]

Why are you converting PAL to NTSC? Most standalone DVD players accept both formats. The NTSC mpg will be bigger because there are 20% more frames. However, you don't get new frames, so you get some of the source frames repeated, which renders the conversion less smooth than the original!

Actually that's not true if he was to convert to 30 fps the file size would be exactly the same because even though it has 1.2 % more frames each frame is 1.2 % smaller. But if he does NTSC film 24 fps the file should be smaler because of the frame resizing.

[banjazzer]

Because ALL PAL dvd players can play NTSC because europe and japan share region 2 dvds but europe is PAL and japan is NTSC disks but some NTSC players can't play PAL.

So, are you really saying that more than a tiny minority of NTSC players cannot handle PAL?

[banjazzer]

"Actually that's not true if he was to convert to 30 fps the file size would be exactly the same because even though it has 1.2 % more frames each frame is 1.2 % smaller. But if he does NTSC film 24 fps the file should be smaler because of the frame resizing."

Yes, the maths bears this out, and I take your point. However, filesize is not the reason I would not consider converting.

[MattO]

The reason for the reencoding to NTSC is this.

I use a Pioneer 343 DVD player. PAL and NTSC VCDs look great in it with no change in aspect ratio, basically the correct size and everything as it was encoded.

The problem begins when I use SVCDs. For some reason, PAL SVCDs dont' display the correct aspect ratio. Example is Spiderman Centropy. When playing it on a PC, or on a Daewoo DVD player, the aspect ratio is correct as it was encoded, black bars at the top and bottom, along with additional matting for the SFX scenes. Playing it in my Pioneer however doesn't have the black bars as it should to properly display the aspect ratio.

If anyone has had similar issues and knows of a way to fix this, please let me know, otherwise the reencoding is the only way I can do it.

[banjazzer]

You do realise that the Centropy release was encoded with wrong aspect ratio as released? I converted to VCD and corrected the aspect ratio. However, I used a PAL template!

[Devnull]

That's funny. How much is it off by?

[banjazzer]

It's a while since I did this, but IIRC it was squashed vertically. Some people are less discerning, but it was very noticeable to me. I think i corrected it by using Video arrange method = Center(custom size) 352x320 with source aspect ratio 1:1(VGA) (I was converting to VCD). I heard later someone corrected it by using 4:3 source aspect ratio, so this might be worth trying. All I know is that it is wrong, and it can be corrected. 8)

[P@iNKilleR]

The other nice little reason for us in the UK to convert NTSC to Pal is that not all TV's can handle NTSC without the judder Hence another twist to the topic. So as we were discussing the aspect ratio!! it looks fine to me no probs there on my tv, thats coz I can switch formats Pal/NTSC but on the other tv it went black & white but no judder... Please help with this coz I also would like to know....



Kev!

[MattO]

Well, I just finished reencoding the film in SVCD NTSC with the correct 2.35:1 aspect ratio. I used the VBR calc you guys suggested, and everything looks good, with no noticable jittering.

While 352x320 will work for VCDs to correct the aspect ratio, I wanted to leave it as an SVCD. I set it to Center (custom size) 480x380, in case anyone wanted to try it.

[FreeMovies]

Matt im am having same issue. However, woudlnt making it 23.96 mean that you lose a frame? that is why it is smaller. I am gonna make it 29.97 and then make it 4 cds or try to. Can anyone FROM experience tell me which is better. will making and losing frams create a more smoother movie or will making it 29.97 be worth it and keep quality? thx for help

[banjazzer]

If you want a smooth movie you keep the framerate the same! There is no way of changing framerate without creating a jerky movie. However, some people don't seem to notice this. 8)

[bbb]

Out of curiosity. Do you guys inverse telecine (IVTC) when going from PAL to NTSC?

If so, does IVTC work well? No jitters? No desync?

[The_Flash]

I've had to do the same thing with this film, PAL-->NTSC that is. I am converting to NTSC DVD however. The following .avs script worked pretty well for me w/ CCE:

LoadPlugin("C:\MPEG2DEC.dll")
Mpeg2source("C:\E2.d2v")
AssumeFPS(23.976)
BicubicResize(720,360,0.00,0.75)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)
ResampleAudio(44100)

This drops a frame from the video (AssumeFPS(23.976)) and also corrects the AR with the "AddBorders." Although I had my reservations about the video 'jerking,' I can't complain bcause its smooth like butter.

The audio is now slower and needs to be time expanded. This can be done with a wav editor...expanding by 4.096% I believe.

Now all I need are some jpg's for my menus! Goodluck to you.

[lemmy999]

The_Flash, I am getting ready to try to convert DVD PAL-> DVD NTSC. I was going to demux and expand the audio by 25/23.976=> 1.0427 (or 4.27%) then use the TMPGEnc method I found in the FAQ section. It says to use DVD2AVI to load in to TMPGEnc, select the DVD(NTSC) template, then go to Advance and select "Do not frame rate conversion". Then remultiplex. I am not sure, but I don't think this method actually drops any frames. Your method (using CCE) might not either. It seems to me (but I may be wrong) that it just expands the time each frame is displayed. For example. If you have a 30 second PAL video clip, it will have 30x25=750frames. When it is converrted to NTSC without a frame rate conversion, it would still have 750 frames, and it plays at 23.976fps so the clip will now be 750/23.976 = 31.28seconds long. So it is longer by the ratio of 25/23.976 = 1.0427 or 4.27%. What do you do with the 5.1 audio?

I just don't understand what to do about the resizing. since PAL is 576 and NTSC is 480. If I leave the resolution settings at the PAL settings, won't my DVD Player just cut off the top and bottom so that it will fit on the screen? Or will it try to "squeeze" it on there making the video look too wide and not tall enough? What does your resize method do? Does it just cut off the tops and bottom of the PAL source video? (I am not that familiar with AVS scripts).

bbb, I don't think IVTC makes sense when going from PAL @ 25fps to NTSC film. I thought the whole telecine process was to go from 23.976 to ~30fps and therefore is not used for PAL. Of course I may be wrong.

[tenbeers]

You do realise that the Centropy release was encoded with wrong aspect ratio as released? I converted to VCD and corrected the aspect ratio. However, I used a PAL template!

Could you enlighten a newb on how you convert mpeg2 to mpeg1 (VCD)?
What happened for me is, I have an AD1500 and an AD1600, Apex. I got the spiderman svcd telesync in .bin files. Burned them using CDRwin. They play fine on the AD1500 but CD2 in the AD1600 wont play, it opens the file browser instead. You can goto the mpeg2 folder and point to the VCD icon that is in the mpeg2 folder but the quality is choppy. Its as if the player thinks its mpeg1 (VCD) not mpeg2 and is using the wrong decoder to playback. Every other svcd works fine in this player. A difference in CDs 1&3 and CD2 is that CDs1&3 have a scandata.dat file in the Ext folder. Where CD2 doesn't have anything in it. So I am trying to figure out what to do to get CD2 to werk. Thanks in advance

[banjazzer]

You basically need to extract the mpg from each CD and convert with DVD2AVI using the guide on this site http://www.vcdhelp.com/mpeg2tovcd.htm The files will then input into TMPGenc. Now I altered the aspect ratio by using Video arrange method (custom size) using 352x320 (I think). But I believe it is more easily changed using Source aspect ratio 4:3. However, you can do samples and play arround in TMPGenc until the aspect ratio looks OK to you. I would not advise changing freom PAL, however, because the result will lack smoothness.

[tenbeers]

Thanks banjazzer, I really appreciate the nfo. Do you have any other thoughts on the rest of my situation. Like why CDs1&3 play where 2 will not. Just looking for ANY input to help solve this.
Many thanks

[banjazzer]

The way it is is that there are errors of some sort on CD2, and possibly CD3. I discovered this when I tried to demux the mpgs. It just won't do it properly. But, running through DVD2AVI seems to work!

[reduce_residue]

Do you kno what is the best resolution for VCDz?

[banjazzer]

There are only 2 resolutions for VCDs - 352x240 and 352x288. it's the source aspect ratio that needs to be adjusted.

[tenbeers]

Ok I got DVD2AVi and copied the AVSEQ01.MPG from spidey cd2 to my box. Opened DVD2AVi and under audio I dont have the decodeing option under audio. ack

[banjazzer]

You shouldn't be decoding. You should be demuxing!

[tenbeers]

can I find instructions for that here?
I got it to decode and I can now play it in windows.....

[tenbeers]

can I find instructions for that here?
I got it to decode and I can now play it in windows.....