the hype with the piracy and star wars

[tigerwolf]

I noticed how the press really jumped on the whole piracy and star wars issue. Then I noticed some of the posts on here talking about the cd protection and a new dvd format etc. Now I have the star wars download, but I also went and saw it at the theatre, I downloaded it for the same reason that I did lord of the rings, which I saw twice at the theatre, and I plan on buying both on dvd. I just want to be able to watch more then once or twice before the dvd comes out. So they were talking about how the loss is incalculable, well actually if you consider it this way. You have a few types.

1. the ones that weren't going to pay to see it at the theatre anyway but downloaded to see it. They wouldn't have lost any money on these people.

2. those who download to see if the movie is worth the cost to see. Ya know if the movie companies would give you a decent piece of the movie to watch then they might fair better in this manner. I mean hollywood can put out some crap and the critics are just as crappy as some of the movies. you figure if you have a 2 hour movie why can't you put up 30 minutes of footage or something as a preview. the trailers never give you enough to tell you anything. Why do you think prequels and sequels are so popular because we at least know something about the movie.

3. the ones that download to watch more then once or twice before the legit version comes out.

4. the ones that would have went to see it but now won't. These types sorta bother me just because of the fact that if you like something then support it. If you watched a bootleg copy and loved it then pay to see it that way next time it can possibly be even better.

these are just the basic types.

as far as cd copy protection and dvd protection. well as far as dvd, what they should have done is what sony did with the playstation and make it machine specific, meaning that only the standalone players would play it and have an exclusive format on it, but they didn't they thought the macrovision was such a great thing. LOL. If they had combined the two a macrovision type scheme with player exclusive format, they might have had a chance. Even then you'd have mod chips and etc, but they would have had a better chance. Cd protection well personally I think its to little to late on that issue. Especially now that the mp3 format is so popular and supported. Also with cd protection scheme I wonder what kind of hairy battle they'll get in with that. I mean I have the right to copy the music.

anyway, just some thoughts. ttfn.

its hard to put the contents of pandora's box back once its been opened.

[adam]

I've actually studied this phenomena in some of my courses in law school. Even in the most cut and dry situations there is always what is described as a sliding scale of morality. For instance, no one would argue that it is ok to steal from a grocery store. However, most people feel that it is more wrong to steal from a small mom and pop store than from Walmart, because that tiny loss won't hurt Walmart nearly as much as the smaller store.

I don't think anyone can really argue that bootlegging is totally harmless but if there is no chance of you ever buying the product you are bootlegging and you do not contribute in any way to the further bootlegging of the product, then there really is no loss to the person holding the copyright. This does not make the bootlegging any less illegal but it is a way to justify the crime to yourself, and I am guilty of doing this myself.

All of the figures you read about bootlegging are vastly overexaggerated. The numbers are self serving because those who are doing the counting are the same ones who are being ripped off. They are assuming that everytime a file is being downloaded illegally, the company loses that purchase, which probably isnt true the majority of the time.

Ultimately I do think most bootleggers are hypocritical. The same people who bash the MPAA, the music industry, and Microsoft are the same people downloading vcds and mp3s on their bootlegged copy of WinXP.

[mrpink]

all this hype over movies being downloaded off of the net, how long has this been going on for, and just now it hits the news? Shows that perhaps lucas has just a bit too much money, and a bit too much influence. Personally if i dl a movie and enjoy it, i will see it in the theatre, however, how many movies have you paid to see and by the time you walked out, you hated ever minute of it? The majority of movies as of late have been awfull, just pure hollywood crap, no story, no acting, just lots of eye candy, well im not paying for that kind of shit any more.
I do beleive that this movie may cause the end of some p2p programs, the easier ones to target and get off of the net(kazaa, morpheus, imesh, ect), the same way that metalica started the end of the napster days. Piracy will continue no matter what the MPAA decides to do, its impossible to rid the internet of these forms of media.
Now as far as Starwars Ep2 goes, i did see it, wont say if i paid for it or not, but once again, a movie that was way over hyped, just more eye candy for the public without any filling what so ever.

[marcusaxavier]

The thing I'm finding out about a lot of the people who downloaded Star Wars EP2 is that they actually either don't like Star Wars, or have no idea what Star Wars is about. I personally think that if you don't like a movie or don't really want to see it badly, then why spend the time and effort downloading a bootleg of it?

As a fan of Star Wars, I'd like to get a copy of the bootleg to tide myself over until it comes out on DVD, but I cannot watch the bootleg and be satisfied. I had seen both The Phantom Menace and Attack of The Clones in theatre, and I have to say that on the big screen is where they should be. Lucas made these movies and created the THX system with theatre release in mind. Watching the bootleg of such movies is like trying to watch the Superbowl through the neighbor's windowblinds - you get to see most of it, but the "kick" is not there.

Over all, I don't discourage bootlegs, but I think that some people only bootleg to able to say that they have it bootlegged, not because they want to see the movie. At least bootleg movies that you want to see, or like.

[g0dZpr0fi7]

4. to watch a few times before it comes out on dvd

Centropy just released this, it's 3 cd's and SVCD.

[nfl2k2]

yes it is wierd how all my religious friends download full versions of games, movies, and applications all the time. They download (steal) 500$ programs, their parents know about it but do nothing. I think "thou shall not steal" is one of the ten commandments?

[tigerwolf]

That is an interesting point. The morality issue. How someone that would never in reality steal, but in virtual reality they make many reality thiefs look bad. Have you also noticed how its becoming common place not only among people you know but to overhear someone talking about downloading something and etc. As if it wasn't anything and nothing was wrong with it. I remember back in the bbs day, you had to get to know some people at least in the virtual sense and sometimes in the real sense to gain access to areas and you had to watch how you asked otherwise they get spooked. I sort of liked it that way, only because it let you know you were slumming it a bit, and if you did get in many times there were download to upload ratios. On the internet the only place I see those is on the ftp sites, but with p2p being so predominent the only thing I see is if you don't share then you'll get bumped, which is about the same premise.
Its just scary how its becoming an everyday thing. I mean heck my uncle was talking about the music he downloads and etc. Talk about a trip.

And adam, yeah I've noted what you mentioned about the moral slide scale. Just like the most common cry of justification I hear is something about how much money they already have. "bill gates is worth billions why should he care", "george lucas is rolling in it why should he care", "metallica makes tons of money why are they griping about napster", etc. Oh and the other justification I love to hear "What kind of impact will I really make, I mean they are only losing the sale from me" my thought, well yeah from you and everyone else that has the concept.
I download and I admit it, but I really don't try to justify it, well okay on occasion I do, but I also support the stuff I like. But if I like one song and that is the only song on an entire album that I like, I'm not paying. Yet If I love quite a few songs, I'll fork out the cash.

Okay I have to admit that the industry isn't exactly innocent here. I mean I believe part of the reason why its becoming so common place and etc. Is most people are fed up. They are fed up with the prices, with all the hype and marketing done for a shitty album or movie, with the industries attitude about things. I know personally I've bought albums that I only liked one or two songs on, yet was stuck buying an entire CD because they don't offer singles. I've paid to watch a movie that they totally misrepresented in the trailers and etc. Ever watch a movie that you walk out going all the best parts were shown in the trailer? I think what is happening is also a means of fighting back, before people felt helpless and felt they had to just bend over and take whatever was given. where now they have a means to fight back , a weapon of sorts.

The industry which ironically should be the most adaptable to change is one of the hardest to change, if they'd get a clue and find out peoples opinions and not just a select group but how about this huge resource called the internet, what about throwing up a phone number in an ad to call and voice your opinion. I mean they could do some major changes and more then likely you'd see at least some of the pirating slack off.
if they changed their attitude and actually changed some things and got people to stop thinking about how they are getting reamed.

Neither side is innocent.

just some thoughts.

ttfn,

ya all have a good day now ya hear.

[d4n13l]

This mainly concerns CDs...
The bottom line is; certain people will screw you for all they can get.
But sometimes, you get people who just want a modest profit, like this guy:http://www.fightcloud.com. Ok, Ok, the site says the CDs are free, but they charge $4.95 for "shipping". However, buried in the shipping charge is the secret ingredient: a modest profit. Less costs of ~$2.50, the company nets ~$2.50 on each "free" disc, half of which goes to the artist. Now they may not be top bands, but the economics of this are clear. This guy is making an honest buck, the artists are still getting thier fair share and we have the chance to buy legit CDs for $5.
The RIAA would have you believe that around $15 is a perfectly acceptable charge for a CD. Bullshit: They are merely price fixing. Federal lawsuits say so.
I have little sympathy for the RIAA, or similar bodies - I only have sympathy for the artists. Ask yourself, is there really any need for such a *BIG* Middle Man in the supply chain? Do we need a Middle Man/sponge in the supply chain? Perhaps. Do they need to take so much of the cut? No.
If you wanna beat yourself up over the artist not getting a cut; send them a dollar or so for every CD that you copy. Give the RIAA the finger. Do unto others what they do to you. Like I said, the only people I have sympathy for is the artists. I sincerely hope that artists will begin to sell direct, after all, they can make more money that way and we can get cheaper CDs.
It is a shame that the vast majority of consumers are docile - Could you imagine what would happen if nobody bought any more CDs until the price was brought down to around ~$8 or so? Probably by the next day you would have $8 CDs.
There is an old saying:
"Everyday the bucket goes to the well, but one day the bottom will drop out."
Think the bottom just dropped out on this one...

PS
I am bashing the RIAA from my legal copy of Windows, whilst listening to a legit CD.

[lee mu bai]

just wanted to add that Michael Greene, former president of the RIAA, made $2 million per year at his job. that's probably the highest salary in the world for a nonprofit organization. he resigned in April of this year with a severance package of $8 million after costing the RIAA $650,000 in payout to a female employee who sued for sexual harassment, and probaby something comparable to that in legal fees as well.

i mention this only because of Greene's infamous speech at the Grammys last year lambasting _students_ for downloading music on the internet.

[Craig Tucker]

I have been anticipating the release of spiderman for weeks now, and it is still not showing in the uk yet. I downloaded a VCD version, pretty good quality and have really enjoyed the film, several times. I probrably will not go to the cinema to see it now, but I will definately still but the DVD when it it released.

Craig

[marcusaxavier]

yes it is wierd how all my religious friends download full versions of games, movies, and applications all the time. They download (steal) 500$ programs, their parents know about it but do nothing. I think "thou shall not steal" is one of the ten commandments?

The thing is downloading "warez" and such is not viewed as stealing, because if it was, it would be wrong to do. The thing is, it is theft. I openly admit, I do "steal" stuff off the internet, I am an internet thief. But, my theft is usually music. I like to have the MP3 of the song to listen to and judge weither it's worth buying the album.

The RIAA is upset with MP3 rippers because of the fact that the music today sucks. Bands have one or two hits per album, so people rip those hits and don't bother buying the album. They spend millons of dollars on promoting the "one-hit wonders" and don't get as much money back from it. Personally, I don't see spending $16+ on a CD if there is only one good song on it. Maybe through not buying the albums of the "one-hit wonders", we can make it so less of the crappy bands put out music.

As for ripping and bootlegging movies, it's like I posted before - most people only do it to say that they did it, no more. In another message board, some guy downloaded AOTC and didn't know who Yoda was. I jumped on him for doing so, because he wasted not only his time, but anyone else's time and bandwidth that might want to actually see the movie. By ripping and bootlegging stuff that you have no interest in, you only make yourself look like a pompus jerk.

For those ripping and bootlegging movies because they are fans, or want to see it, I can also understand. It's like the MP3 thing. Why pay $8 to see a movie, only to realize that the movie sucks and that you wasted $8 and an hour or two of your life? I remember when I lived in a small town, most people made minimum wage. I made $8/hr, and was considered "rich" because of that. Now, when you are making about $7/hr, and you want to see a movie that costs $8, you want your money's worth. When you get done watching that movie, and it's crap, you know that you just wasted one hour+ worth of wages (before taxes). Seeing a bootleg of the movie would have saved you money.

I personally don't bootleg movies, not because I consider it theft, but because I don't have the time to spend doing it. I am working on doing other projects on my computer (such as backing up my anime tapes to VCD), that I don't have time to download and put together a bootleg. I do copy movies, but that's for my own personal use, I will not sell them to others.

Well, just my two cents about the whole topic on bootlegging and copying. I guess I better go now, the FBI is here to arrest me......

[nfl2k2]

I also "steal" music, but not movies. 56k has it's limitations, files over 100mb mean I have to do an overnight download (which is a pain) so I don't really have time to get those. Maybe once I get out of my house and onto college I'll do some heavy downloading 8)

[Greg12]

And anouther thing,

they make us wait 6 months to a year after a movie leaves theators.

I have a bootlegged version of Lord of the Rings, it's a ripped screener.

Oh course I will buy Lord of the rings when it is reliezed on DVD (through amazon.com so I can get the full screen release)

But I think piracy would be reduced if movies were released faster.


And George Lucas is screwing himself by waiting for long to release 4, 5, 6 on DVD

[tigerwolf]

yeah the tcf screener is one hell of a rip for LOTR , ain't it?

That's okay, What about the back to the future trilogy, indiana jones trilogy, and various other movies that were big that they still haven't put on dvd.

On the star wars 4,5,6. As I've meantioned on other forums and to my friends, what he should do is remaster the movie and release it and then release a special edition with a ton of features after 3 is released. We'd buy both version.

[ZAP!!]

If the movie companies are really losing money from bootlegging how did Spiderman, which was available for download that day it came out, break all the box office total records by such a huge degree? Before Spiderman came out no movie had earned $100 million in it's opening weekend, ever. Then it earned over $100 the next weekend. I think Episode 2 did pretty well but it was released on a Thursday to boost weekend totals. (That crazy Lucas! ) Seems to me that people are spending MORE money on movies than any other time in the past. Not less.