Jumpy video, capture resolution and more

[mrcabdriverxx]

Hello. I've avioded posting these questions for a while because the forum usually answers most of my questions, but I'd like to get more of a consise explanantion to my situation.

AMD Athlon XP 1700+
256MB DDR Ram
Gigabyte 7VTXE w/ Via 266A Chipset
40GB ATA100 7200rpm
ATI AIW Radeon 32DDR
AC97 on-board garbage
16x Liteon DVD-ROM
16x10x40x Yamaha CDRW
WIN XP Pro Retail/Corporate

I capture off of TV either with my TV Tuner or S-Video in from my cable box. I also capture the digital channels the same way as the latter.
I also capture RCA from my VCR.

Although most people say not to capture directly into MPEG, I can flawlessly at 720x480 (MPEG 1 or 2) or any other res. without frame drops and set at the highest motion estimate.

Recently I noticed that alot of people suggest capturing (AVI) at 352x480 and then resizing in TMPEG. Now does that resizing also HAVE to involve a deinterlace, or does it depend on the source (VCR or TV). I notice when encoding in MPEG1 theres no option for Interlace or not (greyed out) aside from the filter. I usually capture at 352x240 and don't notice the big "hoopla" regarding the loss of a field, but would like to try the method mentioned above, but I think I'm doing it wrong.

Also, the other day I captured off of TV at 720x480 MJPEG (i know it's not ideal) and the capturing worked fine. The reason I did that is so I could create a high quality disc (VCD,SVCD whatever) in Ulead DVD Workshop. That app won't let me up the bitrate past standard compliant for MPEG1 so that's why I captured at 720x480 so then I could create an XSVCD at 2050kbs with a 480x480 resize. This may sound dumb but I needed to use that app and can't settle for 352x240 1150kbps. Anyway, the output was pixelated as hell and very jumpy. I've also tried encoding the same AVI file in CCE and TMPEG, pretty much the identical problem.

TMPEG settings were 480x480, 192kbps, tried both Quantize matrices, didn't touch Interlace, but I'm pretty sure I swapped the "First field" option in the video source settings. I've tried both MPEG1 and MPEG2.

In conclusion I'm seeming to find after months of experimenting that for VHS and TV the easiest best way to go (quality is still fine, no frame drops) is to capture directly to MPEG at 352x240, when I do so I never have jumpy video, doesn't take up much room and I also don't require a DEMUX for the MPEG's to play on all 3 of my DVD players.

Any comments or suggestions would be great. Sorry about the long post. I finally decided to pick your guys' brain after surfing this kick ass site for the last 2 years or something like that.

[mrcabdriverxx]

Was my post maybe too long? If this should be in a different section let me know and I'll move it. It' sboth capturing and encoding, so I wasnt' 100% sure.

Steve

[therick]

good, detailed post....sometimes you just have to get someone in the mood to read a long one ...here is what I do when I am doing VHS and I like my results. I capture at 352x480 with huffy and use AVISynth's decomb to IVTC the video if I am planning to make an XSVCD. If I am planning to make a VCD, I use VDub's deinterlace and REMOVE a field (even or odd it doesn't matter). This takes 352x480 down to 352x240 very nicely and then you just encode. It does sound like a field order thing...here are a couple of things you could try.

1) Use AVISynth and decomb to IVTC your video
2) Type in "Area Based" Deinterlacer at google and download that filter for VDub and do a test

If the video is still jumpy after this, it ain't a field thing and we can move on to what else it could be...

and to answer the questions you asked:

"Now does that resizing also HAVE to involve a deinterlace, or does it depend on the source (VCR or TV)?"

No. But if you want to make a progressive VCD (which is standard) then yes, you need to deinterlace. SVCDs, however, can be interlaced.

"I notice when encoding in MPEG1 theres no option for Interlace or not (greyed out) aside from the filter. "

MPEG1 does not support interlaced streams.

"in Ulead DVD Workshop. That app won't let me up the bitrate past standard compliant for MPEG1"

Get Nero...XVCDs can look great if you know what you are doing.

"that's why I captured at 720x480 so then I could create an XSVCD at 2050kbs with a 480x480 resize. "

480x480 with a bitrate of 2050 kbps IS actually SVCD comlpiant, so this is actually NOT an XSVCD...2050 is really not enough bitrate for 480x480...try sizing down to 352x480 if you want to use 2050...if your player does SVCDs, then it should do 352x480...and it's DVD compatible later

"This may sound dumb but I needed to use that app and can't settle for 352x240 1150kbps. "

like so many of us on this site...

whew!

[mrcabdriverxx]

Hey "The Rick" Thanks for your suggestions and comments. I'm at work right now so I'll try that out later.

I use and only use Nero 5.5.8 for all of my CD-burning and I know how good of an app it is. I've created multiple VCDs, XVCDs, SVCDs and XSVCDs. The reason I wanted to use Ulead for that project was for the kick-ass menu creation. My dad wanted a menu on his Def Leppard "Behind The Music." I didn't care if the file was MPEG1, MPEG2 or (x)VCD or (x)SVCD, as long as I could have the bitrate at 2050kbps. Ulead only let me use that bitrate with 480x480 MPEG2, so that was my first try. I tried again with CCE, TMPEG (mpeg1 and 2) and burnt each attempt Nero. Hopefully your suggestions help me with this jumpy video issue :)

I've also tried burning an XVCD in Nero with 352x480 resolution. It doesn't play properly in my Pioneer 333, although the player does play (x)VCDs, and (x)SVCDs. I haven't tried my Apex 703 or my Electrohome players but if it doens't work at that res. in my Pioneer then there's not point for me.

So one last thing. TV and VHS are both interlaced by default right? So I should deinterlace captures from each for MPEG1 VCD..? I realize that MPEG1 doesn't have Interlace capabilities, but if I don't "deinterlace" first it'll be crappy after right?
Also, is capturing at 352x240 essentially the same thing as deinterlacing a 352x480 capture and resizing it to x240. From what I understand you drop a field either way. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm definately not a newbie to capturing and encoding, I've just never got a tight hold on the interlace options and how it works exactly.

Thanks anyone for their time.

[therick]

yeah, I have tried tried ULead, the menus are cool, I just was disappointed with the length of text you can use on the thumbnails (but I am really picky)...as I understand it...if you capture with huffy to .avi I believe (or at least I thought) that it is interlaced. I think that all avi capture is interlaced unless you use RGB filtering...

I guess I wasn't clear...but what I burn are XSVCDs with a res. of 352x480...so that is MPEG2...I am not sure why the DV333 doesn't play that though, I thought that thing played everything...

I have never done MPEG direct capture, but I would think that if you capture to 352x240 MPEG1 that it would have to be deinterlaced, right?