MeGUI creating frames out of order

[koberulz]

I'm frameserving from Premiere to MeGUI, and I keep getting frames out of order, as shown in the attached clip.

Sometimes it's almost every couple of frames, sometimes it's every few seconds, sometimes it doesn't happen at all (or at least so infrequently I don't notice).

[poisondeathray]

I'm frameserving from Premiere to MeGUI, and I keep getting frames out of order, as shown in the attached clip.

Sometimes it's almost every couple of frames, sometimes it's every few seconds, sometimes it doesn't happen at all (or at least so infrequently I don't notice).

Frames look in order to me. There might be dropped frames, but they are in order

How do you know megui is "causing" it ? Did you rule out premiere or frameserver issues ?

[LMotlow]

Something missing. Was this interlaced video, and alternate fields were dropped to get single rate deinterlace? Why would you do that with action and sports video?Anyway, it's hard to tell with only 10 frames if it was discarded fields or just dropped frames.

[poisondeathray]

Yes, it's labelled 720p50, but it's 25p so it could have been single rate deinterlaced

But I don't see "out of order" as per the description

And the description suggests sporadic or random pattern: "Sometimes it's almost every couple of frames, sometimes it's every few seconds, sometimes it doesn't happen at all (or at least so infrequently I don't notice). " - but a single rate deinterlace wouldn't be that random

Some more info would be helpful, including posting the source file

[koberulz]

Ah, oops. Wasn't sure how to cut a sample from the MP4, so I re-encoded and obviously had it set wrong. Correct version attached.

[LMotlow]

Does this same thing happen in the original video before you resized and re-encoded it? Can you show us how your reprocessed mp4 differs from the original?

[koberulz]

Define 'original'...it's gone through a lot of processing. What's in Premiere is a 576p50 AVI file, with no frame issues at all. I'm then frameserving out to MeGUI via three different AviSynth scripts to create 576i25, 576p25, and 720p50 versions. The frame issue has occurred in amounts varying from 'almost constant' to 'nonexistent' on the two progressive files (tough to tell whether it occurs on the interlaced file or not, as the effect is much more subtle).

[LMotlow]

"Much more subtle" ? ? ?

If you don't know what "original" means, I think I know from previous threads what we're in for. I pass.

[koberulz]

Only every second line would shift backwards in time, rather than the full frame. I had a capture that had a similar effect as a problem with the actual tape and when watching it interlaced it only appears as the combs disappearing for a frame, there's no visible skipping at all.

"Original", in that context, could be:
The original AVI capture.
The AVI in the Premiere Pro sequence.
The MP4 created straight from MeGUI, as opposed to the snippet posted here which had to be re-encoded.

You used the word twice, and at a guess the first time was the second definition, and the second time was the third definition. But I can't be sure.

[LMotlow]

Original = the original AVI capture. That's where the problem originates, and that's where it has to be fixed. You didn't mention that you're working with damaged nth-generation duped tape, I had to get that info from an earlier thread.

[koberulz]

...what on earth are you talking about? This is literally my first thread here on this tape.

Regardless, that's not where the problem originates. The original capture is fine. The intermediate files are fine. The AVI loaded into Premiere is fine. Some of my MeGUI outputs are fine, and even the ones that all show the frame ordering issues don't show them in the same places or the same amounts.

The problem is occurring between Premiere and MeGUI. It has nothing to do with the original tape.

I've attached a sample of the AVI that went into Premiere, from the same time as the MP4 sample. You'll notice it's problem-free.

[LMotlow]

Capture2.avi isn't an original capture. It's been deinterlaced, alternate frames discarded.
If you work against us, no one can help you.

[koberulz]

I didn't say it was an original capture. I said it's what was loaded into Premiere. If the problem isn't visible in that clip (and it isn't), the problem isn't with the tape, it's with the process of creating the MP4 - either MeGUI, or the frameserver.

And nothing's been discarded. That clip is 50p, the original was 25i. But even if it had been...so what? That AVI file is the last step before output, and that AVI file shows no frame ordering issues. Something is happening after that step.

But if you insist, the original capture is attached.

[LMotlow]

That last sample has been deinterlaced and alternate frames were discarded. The 20-frame sequence you included in the second 720p mp4 has twice the number of frames in the same sequence as either of those non-original avi's. I'm sorry, if you destroyed your original 576i you're screwed and don't have a case. You'll just have to fix the mp4.

[koberulz]

Capture.avi is 576i25. It is the original. It is interlaced. Clearly and visibly.

And, as I've stated repeatedly, THE PROBLEM DOESN'T OCCUR UNTIL THE MP4. The problem IS NOT WITH THE TAPE. You can go frame by frame through Capture2.avi and see that all the frames are in order. Yet the MP4 has those frames out of order. Any step before Capture2.avi is therefore completely irrelevant - the problem is occurring after that step.

But instead of actually acknowledging this, you're continuing to badger me for earlier and earlier sample files, which will be of absolutely no help whatsoever, and even complain that I didn't explain the quality of the original goddamn tape based on something I'd said months ago about a completely different tape, despite the tape being an even earlier step in the process than Capture.avi which is itself far earlier in the process than the problem is occurring. And when I do give in and attach the original in the hope of moving the conversation back to something that might conceivably be helpful, you insist it still isn't the original because...it has a different number of frames? I eyeballed the cut points. It doesn't matter how many frames it has. It's 25fps. You can see that it's interlaced. I know it's the original because I'M THE ONE WHO MADE IT.

But go ahead and insist I'm just too stubborn/stupid.

[LMotlow]

No, you're not stupid/stubboirn (AFAIK), I got in a rush and was careless -- watched Capture2.avi again instead of the later one. My idiot bad.

Frames are being transposed, but I can't say if MEGUI is doing it or not. If you have Premiere Pro and other software, why are you using MEGUI? Is deinterlace and resize being done in MEGUI, or just one or the other? Or is some other software/process being used between the original and the resize/upscale?

[poisondeathray]

As usual - post your script, and the megui log file

When you preview the afs avi (maybe in megui preview) can you see the problem already ?

Is problem repeatable? If you encode the same thing twice (same settings, same everything else), does problem occur in exactly the same place ?

[koberulz]

If you have Premiere Pro and other software, why are you using MEGUI? Is deinterlace and resize being done in MEGUI, or just one or the other?

I'm frameserving out of Premiere Pro to three different scripts:

AVISource("signpost.avi")
AssumeTFF().SeparateFields().SelectEvery(4,0,3).Weave()
ConvertToYV12(matrix="rec601",interlaced=true)

AVISource("signpost.avi")
SelectEven()
Spline36Resize(768,576)
ConvertToYV12(matrix="rec601",interlaced=false)

AVISource("signpost.avi")
Spline36Resize(960,720)
AddBorders(160,0,160,0)
ColorMatrix(mode="rec.601->rec.709", interlaced=false)
ConvertToYV12(matrix="rec709",interlaced=false)

Using MeGUI allows me to create MP4 files immediately rather than bringing all those into Premiere again, allows me to use quality-based encoding rather than bitrate-based encoding, and allows me to insert chapters into the MP4 files (although Premiere may do this, I'm not entirely sure).

Is problem repeatable? If you encode the same thing twice (same settings, same everything else), does problem occur in exactly the same place ?

No. Which makes the question about seeing it in the AVS difficult to answer - I'd have to go through a large enough portion of it, frame-by-frame, then do a full render...

It's occurred with both progressive files, and I've had the 576p file work absolutely fine as far as I can tell.

-[Information] Versions
--[Information] MeGUI: 2768 x86
-[Information] Operating System: Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1 (6.1.65536.7601)
-[Information] .NET Framework: 4.0 (4.0.0.0)
-[Information] .NET Framework: 4.6.x (4.6.01055)
--[Information] System Information
-[Information] Update detection
-[Information] Haali Media Splitter: 1.11.96.14 (03-03-2011)
-[Information] Haali DSS2:  (03-03-2011)
-[Information] ICSharpCode.SharpZipLib: 0.85.5.452 (07-08-2008)
-[Information] MediaInfo: 0.7.97.0 (29-06-2017)
-[Information] MessageBoxExLib: 1.0.2218.28317 (19-12-2008)
-[Information] SevenZipSharp: 0.64.3890.29348 (02-01-2011)
-[Information] 7z: 9.20 (18-11-2010)
--[Information] Component Information
-[Information] Version: 1.0.2721.0
-[Information] Date: 29-04-2017
-[Information] Interface: 3
-[Information] AviSynth Wrapper
-[Information] File Version: 2.6.0.6
-[Information] Date: 31-03-2015
-[Information] Name: Avisynth 2.6
-[Information] Version: AviSynth 2.60, build:Mar 31 2015 [16:38:54]
-[Information] AviSynth+: false
-[Information] MT: false
-[Information] Status: active
-[Information] AviSynth
-[Information] File Version: 0.1
-[Information] Date: 29-06-2017
-[Information] Name: AviSynth+ 0.1 (r2508, MT, i386)
-[Information] Status: inactive
-[Information] AviSynth portable
--[Information] AviSynth Information
--[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:09 AM] Connected to server: http://megui.tmebi.de/test/
--[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:09 AM] No package requires an update
-[Information] Log for job209 (video, 720p50.avs -> 720p50.264)
--[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:42 AM] Started handling job
--[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:45 AM] Preprocessing
-[NoImage] AVISource("signpost.avi")
-[NoImage] Spline36Resize(960,720)
-[NoImage] AddBorders(160,0,160,0)
-[NoImage] ColorMatrix(mode="rec.601->rec.709", interlaced=false)
-[NoImage] ConvertToYV12(matrix="rec709",interlaced=false)
--[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:45 AM] AviSynth input script
--[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:46 AM] resolution: 1280x720
--[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:46 AM] frame rate: 50/1
--[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:46 AM] frames: 281248
--[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:46 AM] aspect ratio: 16:9 (1.778)
--[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:46 AM] Job command line: "avs4x26x.exe" --x26x-binary "x264.exe" --preset slow --crf 17 --keyint 500 --no-scenecut --me umh --trellis 1 --colorprim bt709 --transfer bt709 --colormatrix bt709 --sar 1:1 --output "720p50.avs" 
--[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:46 AM] Process started
--[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:46 AM] Standard output stream
--[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:46 AM] Standard error stream
---[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:50 AM] raw [info]: 1280x720p 1:1 @ 50/1 fps (cfr)
---[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:50 AM] x264 [info]: using SAR=1/1
---[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:50 AM] x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 SSE4.2 AVX FMA3 BMI2 AVX2
---[Information] [8/08/2017 2:24:50 AM] x264 [info]: profile High, level 3.2
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: frame I:563   Avg QP:13.94  size: 66749
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] avs [info]: AviSynth 2.60, build:Mar 31 2015 [16:38:54]
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: frame P:73897 Avg QP:20.51  size: 28879
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: frame B:206788 Avg QP:22.91  size: 10435
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames:  1.7%  0.4%  0.9% 97.0%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: mb I  I16..4: 29.0% 54.9% 16.1%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: mb P  I16..4:  0.6%  5.2%  1.4%  P16..4: 31.5% 20.9%  8.9%  0.0%  0.0%    skip:31.5%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: mb B  I16..4:  0.0%  0.3%  0.1%  B16..8: 32.4%  7.9%  2.0%  direct: 6.6%  skip:50.7%  L0:40.8% L1:44.7% BI:14.5%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:70.1% inter:72.6%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: direct mvs  spatial:100.0% temporal:0.0%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 87.0% 57.2% 11.2% inter: 27.8% 17.1% 0.1%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 41% 42%  2% 15%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 10% 14%  3%  7% 13% 13% 16% 10% 14%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu:  8% 14%  3%  7% 14% 12% 18%  9% 15%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: i8c dc,h,v,p: 37% 29% 16% 19%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: Weighted P-Frames: Y:3.9% UV:1.4%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: ref P L0: 44.2% 13.8% 24.2%  7.8%  9.6%  0.3%  0.0%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: ref B L0: 84.0% 11.5%  3.1%  1.4%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: ref B L1: 97.4%  2.6%
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] x264 [info]: kb/s:6157.53
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] encoded 281248 frames, 32.72 fps, 6157.53 kb/s
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] avs [info]: Video colorspace: YV12
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] avs [info]: Video resolution: 1280x720
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] avs [info]: Video framerate: 50/1
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] avs [info]: Video framecount: 281248
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] avs4x26x [info]: "x264.exe" - --preset slow --crf 17 --keyint 500 --no-scenecut --me umh --trellis 1 --colorprim bt709 --transfer bt709 --colormatrix bt709 --sar 1:1 --output "720p50.264"  --frames 281248 --fps 50/1 --input-res 1280x720 --input-csp i420
--[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] Final statistics
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] Constant Quality Mode: Quality 17 computed...
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] Video Bitrate Obtained (approximate): 6157 kbit/s
--[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] MediaInfo
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:02 AM] File: 720p50.264
-[Information] Format: AVC
-[Information] FormatString: AVC
-[Information] FileSize: 4329480236
-[Information] PlayTime: 
---[Information] General
-[Information] ID: 
-[Information] StreamOrder: 
-[Information] Width: 1280
-[Information] Height: 720
-[Information] FrameCount: 
-[Information] FrameRate: 50.000
-[Information] FrameRateOriginal: 
-[Information] FrameRateMode: 
-[Information] ScanType: Progressive
-[Information] Codec: AVC
-[Information] CodecString: AVC
-[Information] Bits Depth: 8
-[Information] Format: AVC
-[Information] AspectRatio: 1.778
-[Information] AspectRatioString: 16:9
-[Information] Delay: 
-[Information] Title: 
-[Information] Language: 
-[Information] LanguageString: 
-[Information] Default: 
-[Information] DefaultString: 
-[Information] Forced: 
-[Information] ForcedString: 
---[Information] Video
--[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:03 AM] Postprocessing
---[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:03 AM] Deleting intermediate files
--[Information] [8/08/2017 4:48:03 AM] Job completed

[poisondeathray]

If you're encoding 3 versions, why not use a lossless intermediate instead ? It will end up being faster

This will also allow you to examine the exported AVI to see if there are problems exporting from PP, independent of afs

Is system overclocked ? What are temps ? Consider returning to stock if OCed . Common explanation for "random" errors

[koberulz]

If you're encoding 3 versions, why not use a lossless intermediate instead ? It will end up being faster

Why would it be faster?

I tried a Lagarith intermediate, and it's worked. Although the frameserve also worked a couple of times, so I can't be sure the problem is solved.

No overclocking.

[poisondeathray]

If you're encoding 3 versions, why not use a lossless intermediate instead ? It will end up being faster

Why would it be faster?

Because you only have to go through premiere and afs once instead of multiple times. That's the slow part and bottleneck, especially if you have effects/filters. If you did multipass encoding , the difference would be even larger.

I tried a Lagarith intermediate, and it's worked. Although the frameserve also worked a couple of times, so I can't be sure the problem is solved.

I mentioned it to you before, afs or debugmode is very unreliable in PP for most people , except in very old versions (like CS4, CS5) . Most people don't want that uncertainty of questioning if something might work or not , or maybe some of the time or having to go through the entire file to check