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Hey guys, i'm relatively new to all of this so need to pick your brains. I am more a basic filmmaker than editor but am helping a friend edit a wedding video i helped him shoot not long ago. He hired out a canon 5d Mark 3, Canon C100, Sony FS700, Canon XF 305 and we also used a gopro hero 3... i know... it was alot of gear. Now its come to the scary part of editing this all together and im a little stuck... We are using Premiere pro cc..I know most of the footage will go on the timeline without converting...am i right?.. also.. we which is the best way to edit all this footage together? would it be a multiclip? finally... how should we export, we want blu-ray and highest quality possible... but with all different cameras and different FPS is that an issue? thanks would definitely appreciate your help.
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BluRay is 1080, so that's the only hard rule. The rest is up to your creativity.
Different frame rates can be handled via the concept of "Playback Rate", or "Retiming".
I would focus more on the overall music, graphics, FX, and general flow from start to end. Wedding videos are supposed to highlight the bride and groom. That's your goal.
Make it emotional, and it will be a winner.
I don't use Premiere so I can't give you exact technical help. But the concepts are the same for all editors.Last edited by budwzr; 6th Dec 2014 at 12:01.
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Good questions!
Premiere is very flexible in that you can literally paste your trimmed clips from different cameras with different fps and sizes on the timeline, then after some resizing, adding a few effects and titles and music it will all render magically but don't forget to select frame blending.
That would be the easiest way and will still be time consuming, making a wedding video from 5 cameras will take time.
You can certainly improve on the fps time difference. What is the target fps, what is the primary fps (e.g. the camera you will take most clips from) from your footage? Blending is the simplest but often not the best solution, you could alternatively reinterpret short clips with different fps, or show some in slow motion, or you can import some clips in After Effects which has better blending options.
Should you use multi-clip? It depends, unless large parts of your footage was recorded live (e.g. all cameras stay on for larger periods instead of shoot 20 seconds here, 40 seconds there, etc) it would not help you much.
For export there is a H264 Blu Ray option.Last edited by newpball; 18th Dec 2014 at 09:58.
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There are several things you have to decide on even before editing starts.
- In Premiere Pro, editing multiple cameras that shot the same scene from different angles at the same time is the multi-cam mode, with its own editing workspace (mode and view) that you can choose. What version of Premiere you are using is significant because prior to v6, the number of cameras was limited to 4.
- You have to choose what frame rate the final output will be. This will be dictated by a number of factors, like locality and aesthetics. As a default, if the original clips were 1080, you can choose 29.97 (if intending the resulting blu-ray to be viewed in the USA or elsewhere that framerate is used) or 25fps (if intending to let it be viewed in Europe, etc) both interlaced. This is just picking the surface, though. Creating a 25fps blu-ray may make it unviewable in many USA TVs, that only accept 29.97 and 24 or 23.97 from blu-ray (but strangely anything else as files on a USB stick). My experience is, the one frame rate that is guaranteed to play as blu-ray anywhere is 24p, but best results are obtained when the original clips were also shot in that frame rate. Adobe touting Premiere as belonging to the "throw all manners of clips with different frame rates galore into the timeline and edit away without care" category should be digested with a spoonful of salt because the manner in which Premiere converts the different frame rates to the desired one can actually produce second-best results. We have not even touched on the resizing here, which Premiere can botch, should any of your original clips be 720 and need them to be 1080 (best done by an avisynth script externally).
- Syncing together audio and video clips of the same event shot by different devices can easily be the bloodiest part of a multi-cam editing job. I have given my 2 cents in previous discussions on the matter which you can search for here on videohelp. In general, different devices will have their different internal clocks that determine how accurate their timekeeping, and therefore their chosen frame rates will be. For clips that are around 10 minutes long give or take, aligning and syncing them on the timeline is easy. But for clips shot in one continuous take of much more than 15 minutes, you will find that they are in sync in the beginning but will be a few frames off at the end, or vice-versa. In a professional scenario, a common house or external sync connected to all the recording devices ensures they all have the same absolute timecode at any instant. I assume you, like me, do not have this luxury so timecode will be all over the place and long clips will drift off by a few frames. Things like plural eyes do not help, because they will synce the exact middle of multiple long clips, which will still be off by a few frames at the head and tail.
- Clips from different devices will result in markedly different looks, that's why pros generally like to use the exact same cameras with the same settings to shoot multiple angles. This can be mitigated by choosing which camera is your reference, then adjusting the looks of the clips taken by the others. Although Premiere has the tools to do this, and you will tweak stuff like color, contrast, gamma, grain, white balance etc manually or automatically, it may still require lots of time and patience, and compromise, in case no amount of tweaking can make a certain camera's clips appear even close to your reference.
- Non-linear editing is one of the more ardous tasks you can ask a computer to do. If I were to undertake a project like this, I will use a powerful computer that I have constructed myself, which will contain a recent i7 quad or six-core Intel processor, no less than 24GB of memory, a series 87, 88, 97 0r 99 Intel chipset (no AMD, sorry), at least an nVidia GTX750 video card that has 2GB of video memory, six fast SATA hard drives (no USB, see the previous discussions on this), one drive for the system and programs, the rest for your original clips, Premiere conformed files, etc. The niceties of an SSD apply only to the system/program drive, don't get carried away there.
- Although in theory you can throw the disparate clips together on a multi-cam timeline and start to cut & slip- & ripple-edit galore immediately provided you do have the computer like the one above, things will still slow down and get delays here and there to the point where you will want to use an intermediate codec. A popular one is that by Cineform, now owned by gopro. Basically, you initially convert all of your original clips to that of a single size, codec, framerate with no noticeable loss in quality to make your NLE more fluid and snappy. Despite claims for and against, Premiere still behaves best with ancient VfW-style *.avi files, which Cineform converts to.
- In the end that you have a multi-cam timeline whose contents have been edited & you are satisfied with, you install a frameserver program (debugmode frameserver is a free popular one) and frameserve to an external encoder like x264/265. Improvements have been claimed for adobe media encoder (AME), but I (and others) still find free x264 encodes the best-looking videos for blu-ray. Search for previous discussions on this in videohelp.
After all this and you have your *.m4v and *.ac3 files you now get to the certainly-not-trivial task of blu-ray authoring. Adobe has bundled its authoring program Encore with Premiere so you can use that. Note that, the powers-that-be that put blu-ray specs together has restricted its use and the expense of putting together even just a prosumer program has deterred many such that in between freeware that has its own mind (like multiAVCHD), limited features (Pegasys & Nero(!)), toylike condescending interface (cyberlink), and $20k-50k stuff (like sony blu-print), there is a large gap, and really, despite some undesired behaviour (like balking at open-GOP clips), Encore is still the uneasy middle.For the nth time, with the possible exception of certain Intel processors, I don't have/ever owned anything whose name starts with "i". -
thanks for the advice guys... very helpful!! so just to make sure:
- Multicamming is probably going to be my best option?
- i should use frame blending and use a primary camera for the edit
- exporting to h.264 1080p bluray, is the best quality? -
1080p not valid for some frame rates for blue ray according to the 'what is blue ray' link above.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -Carl Sagan -
I'd hate to be the bride who has to watch the results. All that $$$ for Premiere Pro, and off you guys go with frame blending and jamming different formats and frame rates into one big mess.
Should have used a common format/frame rate to begin with, but too late now. The idea is to convert all sources to a common format first. And Treetops is correct: 1980p is invalid for BluRay/AVCHD except for film-rate progressive originals at 23.976/24p.
All that money for Premiere Pro. Wow.- My sister Ann's brother -
Why not? It is a very convenient tool!Originally Posted by LMotlow
If you do it right the majority of the viewers are not even going to be aware of these things. It's all about the wedding after all!Originally Posted by LMotlow
Technical details are a minor part of the overall result. A great montage with sub par footage will get more positive responses than a bad montage with the best possible video quality.Last edited by newpball; 18th Dec 2014 at 18:55.
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You're right. Most viewers will watch anything. And if it moves, even better.
- My sister Ann's brother -
No! In Premiere you import everything native, mix and match on the timeline and do your conversions at the end. You can even do multiple outputs to multiple formats while maintaining best quality for those files that match.Originally Posted by LMotlow
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Yeah. I know. Easy, ain't it? Glad you didn't do my wedding.
- My sister Ann's brother -
It's been many years since I've used Premiere, but I recall you could Right-Click on a clip and select "Interpret". I don't know if that still exists, that should let you change framerate to 24fps. The audio won't sync, but you'll probably use other audio sources anyway...
The biggest problem the OP faces is trying to match the color / exposure of that large and diverse mix of cameras. Good Luck!!!!Got my retirement plans all set. Looks like I only have to work another 5 years after I die........ -
I did a funeral shoot with a gopro on a stick, and I went around taking short scenes with a $300 point and shoot, and everyone loved it. I simply added some sad music and a lot of flower graphics, and timed it together to match.
Some of the footage was SD so I played it in its own space, and used the flowers to help balance and jigger things around.
Last edited by budwzr; 18th Dec 2014 at 21:57.
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Racer-X gives consistently excellent advice, but I beg to disagree in this case. Do not reinterpret the footage, (yes, the capability is still there,) it will cause incorrect frame rates and, as racer-x says, cause sync issues.Originally Posted by racer-x
The current version of Premiere can automatically create multicam clips by audio -- a huge timesaver. Don't do anything that disrupts that process.
As far as mismatched color -- my recommendation, cut your show then apply corrections with speedgrade. Be realistic. If the cameras won't match perfectly, use a stylistic approach that allows for that. On a technical level, do your corrections after your fine cut or your timeline will get bogged down with too many effects. The same goes for any stabilizing or reframing -- lock picture first.
Premiere has well thought out tools that handle most of the issues you will encounter. Trust them, or at least try them before attempting workarounds.
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