Why Playing Menus in Blu-Rays are "Limited" to Paid Programs Mostly?

[devilcoelhodog]

Hello, dear all.

Seeing the thread below:


---> https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/343705-VLC-Blu-ray-plugin-Watch-encrypted-Blu-rays-...tly-in-VLC-2-0


I wonder why playing menus in Blu-Ray discs /content are very "limited" or "problematic"? I mean: why only paid programs such ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre, PowerDVD or WinDVD have support for it?

It seems freeware programs have "limited" or "no" support for menus playing in Blu-ray content.

Are there any "technical reason" for it? It is more difficult to add / write any code to add any support for blu-ray menus in freeware programs?


Thanks.

Best regards.

devil (johner)

[usually_quiet]

The companies that produce commercial Blu-Ray player software players are paying fees to the BDA, AACS LLC, MPEG LA etc. for technology licenses and a copy of the Blu-Ray spec. If someone has to do that, their software can't be free or very low cost.

The alternative is to reverse-engineer the technology instead of licensing it and create an unlicensed product. Free decoders already exist, so that isn't a problem, but reverse-engineering Blu-Ray decryption so no AACS license needs to be purchased is not trivial, and very likely illegal in some countries. In addition, Blu-Ray menus are complex so it is not easy to reverse-engineer software to navigate them either.

[Cornucopia]

The authored formats (DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, SACD, HD DVD-Video, BD-HDMV, BD-J) are extremely complex (seen here in rough order of increasing complexity). And they're proprietary, with their structural code info being very expensive and vigorously guarded by some of the worlds strongest corporations, with legal armies at their disposal.

So you could either reverse engineer this, which takes a very long time (only DVD-Video has been substantially completed), or you can license code.
The former can still get you in hot water with the law unless it is very clear how unconventional your approach is (otherwise you would be infringing on their patents in the methods used in creation of the reverse-engineered stuff).
The latter means it will cost $$, which must be passed along to end-users.

Scott

...doh! usually_quiet beat me to it!

[devilcoelhodog]

@Cornucopia

So you could either reverse engineer this, which takes a very long time

It's so complex task that just a a few people could do it? And it demands so much time in doing it?


@Cornucopia

The former can still get you in hot water with the law unless it is very clear how unconventional your approach is

It would be considered illegal if some people or team of people reverse-engineered such stuff? For example: if the VLC 's team developers could add a working mechanism on their software to process correctly Blu-ray menus, just similar all paid programs like ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre does, the big corporations will strike back? Legally, I mean, forbidding all distribution of all ( freeware ) software that can process Blu-ray without any payment to that companies?


Thanks for the tips!

Best regards.

devil (johner)

[Cornucopia]

Yes and Yes.

[usually_quiet]

From what I recall, VLC has somebody reviewing the legality of their Blu-Ray project for them. France (the home of the VLC project) allows software copyrights but not software patents, so if the code used by VLC is sufficiently different from the licensed version, it might be easier to avoid legal difficulties there than in some other countries, like the USA, for example.

[jman98]

I don't know of any free program that can actually play DTS-MA. As far as I know every one of them really only plays the DTS core. So that's another problem besides getting menus to work.

[jagabo]

I wonder why playing menus in Blu-Ray discs /content are very "limited" or "problematic"?

Because Sony controls the complex specification to the BD virtual machine and only gives access to those who pay the licensing fee.

[devilcoelhodog]

@ jagabo

Because Sony controls the complex specification to the BD virtual machine and only gives access to those who pay the licensing fee.

Well, I understood that if some people or a team of peolple could reverse-engineer such complex specification and create some functionl program ( a freeware, for example ) that could "play / process" correctly all kind of menus or even DTS-MA files it will be considered illegal, because it won't pay all the money that companies recquires to use their technology, right?

It's bad such scenario: all that strong companies that allow only a few programs "licenced" to run their technologies to be available to the end-user.


Nothing can be done?

Among the programs that can run correctly Blu-Ray in all potencial, I will try ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre. Many people recommend such software!


Thanks for the tips!

Best regards.

devil (johner)

[jagabo]

Nothing can be done?

Nothing is stopping you from coming out with your own specification. Don't you want to spend your time working out a specification, coding it up, and convincing all the hardware manufacturers to implement it, all for free? Neither does Sony.

[DB83]

"It's bad such scenario: all that strong companies that allow only a few programs "licenced" to run their technologies to be available to the end-user."

You still do not get it do you ?. But I guess in Brazil you are a little more cavalier when it comes to copyright and licensing. In fact that is what I gathered when a friend of mine was sending me all sorts of dvds from Brazil which I am sure did not have an official release in your country.

On a slightly parallel track, over here we can not buy certain classified( by BBFC so they are 'legal' in that sense of the word) dvds etc.in general stores but can get them in specific 'licensed' stores. And these stores are licensed by local government for a fee. It is that fee-paying licence that stops anyone from selling them much like your perfect world where anyone could create a software to playback BDs with all functions.