Getting PAL 8mm and MiniDV tapes onto Computer, but now in the USA

[thedoc46]

Hi,

First post here, so i guess i should start off by saying hi !

So I have a miniDV camcorder that was originally purchased in the UK, along with all the tapes and recordings. However I'm now living in the USA and I would love to get my old memories onto computer.

I tried hooking it up to my Panasonic GT50 plasma, and the picture was just rolling out of control. I guess the TV is not multi-system then !

I also have some old 8mm tapes, but no 8mm camcorder. I could buy a UK pal 8mm camcorder and have it shipped to the USA, or which i do not think is possible, buy an NTSC 8mm camcorder.

Either way, i guess what I'm trying to achieve here, is getting these tapes to a digital format, using whatever I can, without it costing me an arm and a leg.

I have the miniDV camcorder but its a pal, so the device to get it digital, needs not care about the signal..

For the 8mm, do a i need an 8mm pal, or could i get away with buying a US 8mm camcorder, then using a similar device and get it on the computer.

Any advise appreciated for this noob.

Thx

[Cornucopia]

Hi! and welcome.

Setting aside the power line freq./voltage/mains issues, which are fairly easy to work around...

The 2 main international systems (PAL/SECAM & NTSC) are still with us in one form or another and will be for some time to come. Yet, there is a big divide.

Partly because of the national origin of many of the electronics giants (Korea, Japan, Taiwan) and because of the 800 pound gorilla: Hollywood, NTSC has been a de-facto alternate option for PAL systems, while (certainly in North America) the attitude of "if it's not from here it doesn't matter" prevails. That means: PAL systems will often accept NTSC media, but NTSC will rarely if ever accept PAL media.

Also, there are varying levels in terms of compatibility (in descending order):
1. True, auto-switching multi-system, or system-agnostic platforms
2. Manually switched multi-system
3. Main system which "FAKES" the alternate system
4. Only main system works

PCs are type #1 - system-agnostic.
Many/most PAL equipment is type #3.
Some, more expensive equipment (PAL or NTSC) is type #2.
The great majority of general NTSC equipment is type #4.

So, once you GET it into the PC as a file, you're ok in PC-land. But with CE (Consumer Electronics), you have a harder time, even with TVs.

Problem with getting it into the PC is that you still need to have some hardware to connect. If using Firewire (for DV), it is agnostic also, so doesn't matter (or if it's a card or box, it is likely a type #2).
But the camera needs to be one or the other and it HAS to match the tape type - it cannot FAKE it in the capture!

So, you have PAL DV tapes, you need a PAL DV camera to get into the PC.
You have PAL 8mm/Hi8/Dig8 tapes, you need a 8mm-type cam+DV box, or better, a Dig8 cam that supports 8mm/Hi8 pass-through and it needs to be PAL.
Those are #2 or #4 type devices.

You'll either have to order a PAL device to be shipped here, or special order a PAL-capable (or multi-system capable) device that is locally available, or you'll need to make use of a transfer service (one that supports international/multi-system work).
None of this is cheap, but neither should it be an arm or a leg.

Also, if you have it on computer, are you planning on viewing it ONLY on computer, or are you expecting to sometime view it on a standard TV while in the US/NTSC area?
If the former, no worries. Capture to PC and your job is done.
If the latter, you will now need to convert PAL->NTSC, or use a type #1/#2/#3 NTSC TV (rarer).

What you decide to do there would probably depend on whether you are planning on being in NTSC areas for a long time or not.

HTH,
Scott

[thedoc46]

Thanks Scott, I figured as much, that i'll probably need an 8mm PAL camcorder. I'll pick up a used one off fleabay in the UK.

Future viewings being limited to a computer will be fine. As for a device to capture video and convert it? What do you guys recommend ? I'd like to keep the costs down if possible, and once done transferring the 20 or so tapes, I'll probably no longer have any use for it. My current MiniDV has composite, and since i haven't got a 8mm, i'll assume that that will also come with just the composite connection.

Also from a 525i image, 60min tape, how much space approx would a 1hr video take up?

Hi! and welcome.

Setting aside the power line freq./voltage/mains issues, which are fairly easy to work around...

The 2 main international systems (PAL/SECAM & NTSC) are still with us in one form or another and will be for some time to come. Yet, there is a big divide.

Partly because of the national origin of many of the electronics giants (Korea, Japan, Taiwan) and because of the 800 pound gorilla: Hollywood, NTSC has been a de-facto alternate option for PAL systems, while (certainly in North America) the attitude of "if it's not from here it doesn't matter" prevails. That means: PAL systems will often accept NTSC media, but NTSC will rarely if ever accept PAL media.

Also, there are varying levels in terms of compatibility (in descending order):
1. True, auto-switching multi-system, or system-agnostic platforms
2. Manually switched multi-system
3. Main system which "FAKES" the alternate system
4. Only main system works

PCs are type #1 - system-agnostic.
Many/most PAL equipment is type #3.
Some, more expensive equipment (PAL or NTSC) is type #2.
The great majority of general NTSC equipment is type #4.

So, once you GET it into the PC as a file, you're ok in PC-land. But with CE (Consumer Electronics), you have a harder time, even with TVs.

Problem with getting it into the PC is that you still need to have some hardware to connect. If using Firewire (for DV), it is agnostic also, so doesn't matter (or if it's a card or box, it is likely a type #2).
But the camera needs to be one or the other and it HAS to match the tape type - it cannot FAKE it in the capture!

So, you have PAL DV tapes, you need a PAL DV camera to get into the PC.
You have PAL 8mm/Hi8/Dig8 tapes, you need a 8mm-type cam+DV box, or better, a Dig8 cam that supports 8mm/Hi8 pass-through and it needs to be PAL.
Those are #2 or #4 type devices.

You'll either have to order a PAL device to be shipped here, or special order a PAL-capable (or multi-system capable) device that is locally available, or you'll need to make use of a transfer service (one that supports international/multi-system work).
None of this is cheap, but neither should it be an arm or a leg.

Also, if you have it on computer, are you planning on viewing it ONLY on computer, or are you expecting to sometime view it on a standard TV while in the US/NTSC area?
If the former, no worries. Capture to PC and your job is done.
If the latter, you will now need to convert PAL->NTSC, or use a type #1/#2/#3 NTSC TV (rarer).

What you decide to do there would probably depend on whether you are planning on being in NTSC areas for a long time or not.

HTH,
Scott

[usually_quiet]

A Firewire port and WinDV, Enosoft-DV-Processor, or some other software that can import video from a DV camera are all that is needed for transferring video from a DV camera to your PC.

If your PC doesn't have Firewire 400 (IEEE 1394a) and it is a desktop with an empty PCI or PCI-e expansions slot, you can buy an adapter card to add Firewire. A Texas Instrument chipset is preferable to VIA.

PCI Firewire Adapter cards with Texas Instrument Chipset
http://www.amazon.com/3-Port-Firewire-Adapter-Card/dp/B000HDKVDQ
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-4-Port-1394a-FireWire-Adapter/dp/B00006B8EQ

PCI-e Firewire Adapter cards with Texas Instrument Chipset
http://www.amazon.com/Syba-Profile-PCI-Express-Chipset-SD-PEX30009/dp/B002S53IG8
http://www.amazon.com/SIIG-FireWire-2-Port-PCIe-NN-E20012-S2/dp/B000G6U8VY

If you have a laptop with no Firewire port, you may be out of luck for transferring DV. While there are ExpressCard adapters for Firewire, most newer laptops don't have an ExpressCard slot, and Firewire to USB adapters won't work for this.
http://www.amazon.com/SIIG-Firewire-Cardbus-Express-NN-EC2012-S2/dp/B006ZB3OE2

DV files use about 13 GB/hour.

[thedoc46]

Thanks for your help. I'm looking at my laptop and it does indeed have a port for 1394. Doesn't mention it being a 1394a though. Not sure if i need to be aware of any compatibility issues. My PC at home probably does have a firewire 1394a port, that i've just never used. My mobo is an Asus A7NX something, and i'm fairly sure it would have had one integrated, so no need to buy an external card.

I need to check on the model of my MiniDV camcorder. It would be a good 15yrs old now. Would such an old device have any firewire compatibility issues ?

What about 8mm, I'm guessing I would just need a composite capture device for that ?

[redwudz]

Yes, I belive the Asus A7NX does have a FW port, but there are several versions of that MB. If it does, then you should be good to go with just a firewire cable and the software mentioned by usually_quiet But FW cards aren't that expensive either.

For your 8mm, probably a USB capture device. None come to mnd, but others could probably make a recommendation. I suspect you would also need a PAL version 8mm camcorder.

And welcome to our forums.

[usually_quiet]

Thanks for your help. I'm looking at my laptop and it does indeed have a port for 1394. Doesn't mention it being a 1394a though. Not sure if i need to be aware of any compatibility issues. My PC at home probably does have a firewire 1394a port, that i've just never used. My mobo is an Asus A7NX something, and i'm fairly sure it would have had one integrated, so no need to buy an external card.

I need to check on the model of my MiniDV camcorder. It would be a good 15yrs old now. Would such an old device have any firewire compatibility issues ?

What about 8mm, I'm guessing I would just need a composite capture device for that ?

If the Firewire port on your laptop matches the connection used by your camera's cable, transfer is likely to work. Even if the laptop or desktop doesn't use a Texas Instruments chip for Firewire, it can still work. TI just tends to have the greatest compatibility. You may have to install legacy firewire drivers if you have Windows 7. Instructions are here.

If your mini DV camera has an analog pass through feature, it may be possible to use it to convert the output from your 8mm camera to DV. See this. Otherwise, you will need a composite video capture device.

I think DV AVI can be converted to DVD video using AVStoDVD. As I recall it has the ability to perform conversions from PAL DV AVI to PAL DVD or an NTSC DVD. You might as well try both.