Conundrum: disc showing more data than it can POSSIBLY hold.

[Ral-Clan]

Hello,

I'm having a very strange and intriguing problem with DVD-VR that's showing double the capacity it can possibly hold. There's quite a bit to describe in order for you to understand what I'm trying to do, so here goes:

1. I record anamorphic widescreen shows from the cable-company provided digital PVR to my stand-alone DVD recorder via an S-video connection.

2. Since the DVD recorder only records in 4:3 aspect ratio, I am feeding it an anamorphic squeezed 16:9 picture. The discs are DVD-VR 4.7GB single layer discs.

3. I can watch these DVDs in true anamorphic widescreen on any TV which can stretch the 4:3 picture to fill the whole 16:9 screen. But on other TVs that do not do this it can be a problem...so...I have a better solution.

4. I take the DVD to my computer, rip all the files off the dis, use IFOEdit to change the aspect ratio flags in the .IFO files to 16:9, and re-burn these files to another disc.

5. Voila! The new disc plays the anamorphic widescreen movies the way they should be played (it instructs the player to stretch the content).

This works fine for any discs where the content is all recorded in the same bitrate (i.e. I use LP mode a lot).

HOWEVER - if the bitrate on the disc is mixed, when opening the disc on a computer to view files, I will see duplicated files. This means that to the computer, a DVD-VR completely filled up with shows will indicate it is holding TWICE AS MUCH DATA as it can possibly hold.

For example, I have a DVD-VR with two hour and a half long shows (3 hours) recorded at EP mode, and another hour long show recorded to the same disk in LP mode. This pretty much fills the disc up (about 4GB of data).

When viewing this in the computer (Windows XP PC), the computer thinks there are 8GB worth of files on the disk, and you can even drag all 8GB to the computer's hard drive.

Here is the directory of such a disc:


2013-10-25 05:23 AM 12,288 VIDEO_TS.IFO
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 12,288 VIDEO_TS.BUP
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 393,216 VIDEO_TS.VOB
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 110,592 VTS_01_0.IFO
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 110,592 VTS_01_0.BUP
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 108,544 VTS_02_0.IFO
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 108,544 VTS_02_0.BUP
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 1,073,676,288 VTS_01_1.VOB
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 1,073,676,288 VTS_02_1.VOB
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 1,073,676,288 VTS_01_2.VOB
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 1,073,676,288 VTS_02_2.VOB
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 1,073,676,288 VTS_01_3.VOB
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 1,073,676,288 VTS_02_3.VOB
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 851,443,712 VTS_01_4.VOB
2013-10-25 05:23 AM 851,443,712 VTS_02_4.VOB

You can see that any VTS-02 file is just a duplicate of a VTS_01 file.

While I haven't checked, I suspect that if I had a disc using three separate bitrates, I would get a triple duplication of files.

So while I can change the aspect ratio flags on the IFO files of such a disc, there are too many files to burn back to a DVD5 4.7GB.

If I try and delete all the VTS_02 files (which seem to be duplicate), I can re-burn the files to a DVD5, but the final title (recorded in LP mode) cannot be accessed from the disc menu (the button is there, but it won't play on any player I own). I believe there is some reference in an .ifo file that tells the disc to look in a VTS-02 file for that video. I don't know why.

I don't believe the disc actually is holding more data than possible, but that the directory is set up to reference the same binary data on the disc with two filenames. I'm not sure how this is done or why, but it's preventing me from doing what I need to do.

Super confused!

[DB83]

Quite possibly the VR mode is scewing up the folder output.

I suggest that you try Video Mode which has greater compatability.

[hech54]

Hello,

I'm having a very strange and intriguing problem with DVD-VR that's showing double the capacity it can possibly hold. There's quite a bit to describe in order for you to understand what I'm trying to do, so here goes:

1. I record anamorphic widescreen shows from the cable-company provided digital PVR to my stand-alone DVD recorder via an S-video connection.

Nothing strange or intriguing about it. Certain brands of recorders have always produced discs like this.....some even OUT of VR Mode. The video files sometimes get even more crazy if you edit the disc on the recorder before finalizing it. DVDShrink put out several updates for discs like this over the years...and DVDShrink ceased to exist almost 10 years ago.

[usually_quiet]

@Ral-Clan Your disc was recorded using your recorder's video mode setting, even though it doesn't conform to the standard structure of properly authored video mode DVD. If your disc were recorded in VR mode it would use a different file structure, a DVD_RTAV folder containing a VR_MANGR.IFO file, a VR_MANGR.BUP file and a VR_MOVIE.VRO file.

I have a Magnavox DVD recorder that creates discs with a similar file structure for its video mode recordings. Even when each recording is in SP mode, the disc has the same kind of odd duplicate file structure. To be honest I have never tried copying the disc as is to my hard drive. I only copy the video (from the VTS_01_X.VOB files) to remove commercials and then re-author them with a new menu. I would try a DVD ripping program as hech54 suggested to see if they create a copy on your hard drive with a proper file structure for a DVD video disc.

[Ral-Clan]

@Ral-Clan Your disc was recorded using your recorder's video mode setting, even though it doesn't conform to the standard structure of properly authored video mode DVD. If your disc were recorded in VR mode it would use a different file structure, a DVD_RTAV folder containing a VR_MANGR.IFO file, a VR_MANGR.BUP file and a VR_MOVIE.VRO file.

Okay....I thought my DVD recorder was in fact making DVD-VR discs, as that's what it titles them by default. But it's missing those folders, so I guess not. The DVD recorder is a Philips DVDR3455H by the way.

The VOBs I am able to get off the disk are valid - it's just the IFO files that are problematic (they point the the 02 versions of the VTS files for the final title on the disc). I just need a way to re-author the VOBs to a standard DVD without re-encoding. Any suggestions for good software?

[DB83]

Gotta ask this since you now mention Philips.

Are your blank media +R/RW's or -R/RW's. If the former then you could still be using VR mode as you thought you were - similar file structure to Video Mode.

Do you have an opportunity to try these disks on other players - different makes ? If they play then, technically, you have a standard DVD.

As for re-authoring then you could try vob2mpeg, dvddecrypter or any other standard ripper.

[usually_quiet]

I looked at a couple of old posts here and in other forums, and found Philips DVD recorders and Magnavox DVD recorders use something called DVD+VR mode, which produces a file structure that looks much like video mode and is compatible with most standard DVD players. DVD recorders sold by other brands that have a VR mode use DVD-VR, which produces the file structure I described and those VR mode discs only play on the make, or sometimes just the model of DVD recorder that made them.

[lordsmurf]

It's just duplicate run-time data being calculated.
It's not really that full.

[jagabo]

It's just duplicate run-time data being calculated.
It's not really that full.

Yes, it's like having the table of contents in a 100 page book look like:

Chapter 1:  pages  1 - 100
Chapter 2:  pages  1 -  50
Chapter 3:  pages 51 - 100

If you count the pages by adding up the number of pages in each chapter it looks like there are 200 pages.

[Ral-Clan]

It's just duplicate run-time data being calculated.
It's not really that full.

Yes I realize that. When viewing the actual VTS_01 vob files pulled off the disc they contain a complete set of video data for the shows recorded. The VTS_02 vobs are just duplicates (on the original disc they must be the same binary data/disk tracks referenced by a different file name).

Are your blank media +R/RW's or -R/RW's. If the former then you could still be using VR mode as you thought you were - similar file structure to Video Mode.

I use DVD-R discs. They play in any DVD player I've tried (with some FF, REW issues).

I agree that it is just duplicate "run time data" being referenced (same binary data being referenced twice by the directory). All the VTS_02... VOB files contain exactly the same video data as the VTS_01 VOB files.

Should there be some way for me to just take the VTS_01 series of VOB files off the disc, then alter the IFO files so that they reference these VOB files and make no mention of the 02 VOB files?

The problem is only with one title accessed from the DVD menu. This title was recorded in EP mode (while the rest of the disc was recorded in LP mode). If I burn a disc which excludes all the duplicate VTS_02 vob files (which I must do because the disc cannot possibly hold both sets of files), then that EP mode title cannot be played from the menu. So evidently, the menu button for that EP mode title references one of the now non-existant VTS_02 vob files which I haven't included on the disc.

But since the VTS_02 vob file is just a duplicate of the VTS_01 file, couldn't I just alter one of the IFO files to make the menu button reference the same video data in the VTS_01 vob that still contains that video data? Or alter something on the disc to once again make it think that there are VTS_02 vobs (as the original disc must have done)?

[jagabo]

Why don't you just use an editor like Mpg2Cut2 to save each segment as an MPG file then just re-author the disc?

[usually_quiet]

Are your blank media +R/RW's or -R/RW's. If the former then you could still be using VR mode as you thought you were - similar file structure to Video Mode.

I use DVD-R discs. They play in any DVD player I've tried (with some FF, REW issues).

It looks like Philips and Magnavox DVS recorders can only record in +VR. However they can use +VR with DVD+R, DVD-R, DVD+RW, and DVD-RW.

The -VR mode other recorder brands use for their VR recordings is only compatible with DVD-RW and DVD-RAM discs.

Should there be some way for me to just take the VTS_01 series of VOB files off the disc, then alter the IFO files so that they reference these VOB files and make no mention of the 02 VOB files?


The problem is only with one title accessed from the DVD menu. This title was recorded in EP mode (while the rest of the disc was recorded in LP mode). If I burn a disc which excludes all the duplicate VTS_02 vob files (which I must do because the disc cannot possibly hold both sets of files), then that EP mode title cannot be played from the menu. So evidently, the menu button for that EP mode title references one of the now non-existant VTS_02 vob files which I haven't included on the disc.


But since the VTS_02 vob file is just a duplicate of the VTS_01 file, couldn't I just alter one of the IFO files to make the menu button reference the same video data in the VTS_01 vob that still contains that video data? Or alter something on the disc to once again make it think that there are VTS_02 vobs (as the original disc must have done)?

I don't know the answer to the above, but realized that you have another problem too. The DVD standard permits using a 16:9 aspect ratio for 720x480 resolution video but not 354x480. The Philips and Magnavox recorders use 354x480 for LP mode recordings and I think for EP mode as well. Some DVD players may not play 354x480 16:9 video correctly since it isn't allowed by the standard. If you re-author as jagabo suggests, authoring software may not allow 354x480 video to be authored in 16:9 aspect ratio, and you will need to re-encode to 720x480.

[Ral-Clan]

Why don't you just use an editor like Mpg2Cut2 to save each segment as an MPG file then just re-author the disc?

Oh, I do have Mpg2Cut2 installed on my computer and have used it to cut up VOBs for conversion to other formats (Mp4, etc.). But I didn't realize you could convert the chopped up MPG files back into VOBs without having to transcode them back. You mean an MPG converted from a DVD VOB by Mpg2Cut2 can simply be renamed with the .VOB extension and put back on a DVD?

Also, if I have a bunch VOBs I've edited with Mpg2Cut2, what software will generate the proper .IFO and .BUP files needed to get them to work in a DVD player again? I tried using IFOEdit to generate the .IFO files, but I didn't really know what I was doing and it didn't work.

I don't know the answer to the above, but realized that you have another problem too. The DVD standard permits using a 16:9 aspect ratio for 720x480 resolution video but not 354x480.

Yikes! You're right. Maybe that is the problem! Maybe after I flag these EP titles as 16:9 the machine just won't play them because it doesn't support anamorphic video in that resolution. Good observation.

Thanks,

[hech54]

You mean an MPG converted from a DVD VOB by Mpg2Cut2 can simply be renamed with the .VOB extension and put back on a DVD?

No.

Also, if I have a bunch VOBs I've edited with Mpg2Cut2, what software will generate the proper .IFO and .BUP files needed to get them to work in a DVD player again?

It's called "authoring" a DVD. You need an authoring program.
https://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/authoring-dvd

[Ral-Clan]

You mean an MPG converted from a DVD VOB by Mpg2Cut2 can simply be renamed with the .VOB extension and put back on a DVD?

No.

Also, if I have a bunch VOBs I've edited with Mpg2Cut2, what software will generate the proper .IFO and .BUP files needed to get them to work in a DVD player again?

It's called "authoring" a DVD. You need an authoring program.
https://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/authoring-dvd

Well, I've made hundreds of custom DVDs from raw camcorder footage and from downloaded videos using Sony DVD Architect. I would actually consider myself a fairly advanced user with DVD architect.

But what I want is software that will take the cut-up VOBs I've generated with Mpg2Cut2 and create a video DVD without having to transcode those files.

Most of the authoring software on the link above (like DVD architect) seem to be the kind that transcode anything not strictly in the format required.

I'm assuming that once one has cut up a VOB using Mpg2Cut2, the resultant files are not longer valid VOBs and will either:

(a) need to be transcoded by software that assembles them into a valid video DVD, or
(b) slightly adjusted somehow so that the cut up MPEG2 files conform to a true VOB specification.

Unfortunately, while I know lots of software that will do "a", I don't know of any that will do "b".

[DB83]

You like to try and complicate matters.

ANY decent dvd-authoring program will NOT re-encode a mpeg2 file that IS dvd-compliant.

Who said that the vob editor creates vobs ?. AFAIK it creates mpegs just like vob2mpeg does. And if you have an option of either then just choose mpeg.

And as for future recordings, do check your settings. If you have used VR mode do some sample recordings - at different bit-rates - in Video Mode and see how the disk then looks.

[Ral-Clan]

"usually_quiet" was right. The EP mode videos in 354x480 resolution cannot be burned to DVD as 16:9 aspect ratio titles.

Even though I was finally able to extract the anamorphically squashed widescreen videos from the 4:3 flagged VOBs and convert them to MPEG files with a corrected 16:9 aspect ratio flag, DVD Architect wanted to re-encode them to 720x480 resolution to be compliant with the DVD standard (only full D1 videos can be 16:9 according to the DVD standard). AVStoDVD wanted to change the ratio back to 4:3 and re-encode them as letterboxed to be compliant with the half-D1 standard.

If I left them at 4:3 both pieces of software did not attempt to re-encode. Neither did both applications try to re-encode videos recorded in LP mode and re-flagged to 16:9, because they already are in the proper 720x480 resolution.

[usually_quiet]

"usually_quiet" was right. The EP mode videos in 354x480 resolution cannot be burned to DVD as 16:9 aspect ratio titles.

Even though I was finally able to extract the anamorphically squashed widescreen videos from the 4:3 flagged VOBs and convert them to MPEG files with a corrected 16:9 aspect ratio flag, DVD Architect wanted to re-encode them to 720x480 resolution to be compliant with the DVD standard (only full D1 videos can be 16:9 according to the DVD standard). AVStoDVD wanted to change the ratio back to 4:3 and re-encode them as letterboxed to be compliant with the half-D1 standard.

If I left them at 4:3 both pieces of software did not attempt to re-encode. Neither did both applications try to re-encode videos recorded in LP mode and re-flagged to 16:9, because they already are in the proper 720x480 resolution.

If you can re-author the 352x480 video in 4:3 aspect ratio, then you can continue your experiment by patching the IFO to 16:9 to see if your DVD player will play in widescreen. If it does your are OK, unless you get another DVD or Blu-Ray player someday that doesn't play the video correctly. If your player doesn't play the video in widescreen, then you have a choice of re-encoding your video or only watching it on TVs that have a 16:9 picture setting.