VHS to DVD transfers - how do the pros do it?

[Timothy Schmits]

I've had some video adapters that connect my VCR to my computer often with slightly choppy, shaky, or jerky results. Sometimes just enough to be annoying. I've been disappointed. How do the pros convert VHS to DVD? I'm willing to pay more than $50-100 that an adapter would go for.

[hech54]

Pros use high-quality VCRs and capture with the correct video codec(s) - uncompressed or lossless AVI or high bitrate MPEG2.

[orsetto]

Well, there's "professional" (gets paid to do the same crappy job with the same gear average joe would pick up at Best Buy) and then there's "professional" (experienced, tech-savvy, heavy investment in gear the average person would have no clue about).

Assuming you mean "how do I get results comparable to reputable restoration expert who's dedicated their lives to this task and makes money doing it," the answer is spend a lot of money on hardware and software, and a lot of time learning software tricks, or carefully budget for some workaround options that might fall short of perfection, but get you closer than you are now.

Digitizing VHS to a PC is a total PITA. One of the biggest hurdles is finding an encoder board or USB interface that works reliably and doesn't gag every 20 seconds on the unstable cheezy VHS signal. Like everything else in consumer electronics, newer is not always better: the selection of decent affordable PC video accessories is not what it once was. Opinions here vary wildly, but the Black Magic brand seems to be popular at present.

Depending on the PC interface device, condition of your tapes and their original source (broadcast, cable, camcorder, dub from another tape), you may need a discontinued high-end VCR with built-in image processors and/or external boxes like a TBC or proc amp. Choosing among these is the topic of many a thread here: run a search for "SVHS VCR with TBC/DNR" and "which TBC is good for VHS transfers." A top-line used VCR in good condition + external TBC + good PC video interface + software can easily set you back $800: how important are these tapes to you, how many do you have, are you willing to spend weeks and months learning the ropes of software?

The unsatisfactory results produced by your current setup could have many causes: the encoder may be a poor match for VHS, your VCR may not be a good match for tracking the tapes, the tapes themselves may be so mediocre that no amount of effort can really make them look good, or your software settings may be way off. A lot hinges on the tapes themselves: you'll get nowhere fast with LP (4 hour) or EP/SLP (6 hour) recordings- the best you can hope for is a digital copy that matches the tape. Improvement is all but impossible for 6-hour recordings, and difficult even for SP-2 hour recordings. Flying by the seat of your pants doesn't cut it: you really need to know what you're doing.

As a baseline for comparison, get your hands on a standalone DVD recorder, and dub a selection of clips to DVD at the XP and SP speeds. Standalone recorders have a number of automated input circuits that correct for a lot of VHS crap that tends to stymie PC-hosted encoders. If the test DVDs look any better than your previous PC efforts, you'll know for sure you need to make changes to that system (either in settings or trying altogether different hardware). The PC solutions offer the most potential for high-quality VHS transfers, and versatility in file formats and storage media, but dramatic quality improvements can be elusive unless you stumble upon the perfect mix of hardware and software (and put some not-insignificant time into learning the software tools).

[jman98]

One of our longtime members does this in part to earn a living. Modesty and forum rules won't let him plug himself, but if you don't have a large number of tapes and thus it won't cost a fortune to hire someone else, he is obsessive about quality and I'm sure he'd do a good job. His forum name is lordsmurf. Here's his website:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/

If you do this yourself, you do need to understand 2 things before you start in my opinion.
1) VHS tape is a really crappy surprisingly low quality way to store video. Doing your own VHS captures will drive this point home. Some here swear they can get DVD quality out of VHS conversions to DVD. Maybe they can, but you may just have to settle for "good enough". John Lennon said something about Phil Spector's production on the "Let It Be" album that could just as easily apply to VHS capture/conversions - "It was the shi**iest load of badly recorded sh*t I ever heard in my life and when he got through working on it I didn't want to puke." Or something similar to that. That may be the best you can achieve.
2) Don't get so obsessed with perfection that you end up never getting anything done. There's a thread here that keeps getting resurrected by the guy who started it every few months and almost 2 years after he started it and almost 1000 posts later, at least half of which are from various people trying to help him, he has yet to record even 1 tape because he keeps finding flaws in everything he records and starts over without finishing anything. At some point you just have to get it done and get on with your life.

[sanlyn]

All true, and thanks to orsetto and jman98. I noted the comment about those who claim they can make VHS look like DVD. That's clearly impossible, but with great care one can make vast improvements in noise reduction, color accuracy, repairing frame damage, etc. Not every piece of tape is worth that much trouble, but there are many posts by owners of precious family videos who've taken up the challenge and get excellent results -- along with some lazy types who are blind as salamanders and wouldn't be able to see the difference anyway. What you get depends on what you put into it.

[vhelp]

I've had some video adapters that connect my VCR to my computer often with slightly choppy, shaky, or jerky results. Sometimes just enough to be annoying. I've been disappointed. How do the pros convert VHS to DVD? I'm willing to pay more than $50-100 that an adapter would go for.

what type of content is on these tapes ? (commercial released movies? home videos from hi8/8mm? recorded tv? etc)
what is the recorded speed on these tapes ? (LP? SLP? EP? SP? etc)
how many tapes are you complaining about that you have to resort to the pros about ?
what is your computer levels skills ?
what equipment do you have currently to go from vcr->device->pc ?
and your time and patience ?
how old are you ?

[sanlyn]

Wow. Would a Social Security number help? I believe the complaint is about cheapo adapters, and the O.P. is willing to pay as much as $100.

Kidding aside: as you've discovered, the cheap stuff doesn't work -- not very well, anyway. An "adapter" isn't what you need. What you need is called a line-level tbc of some type, either built-in to a high-end VCR, or able to be activated using a good (but probably circa 2005 or earlier) DVD recorder that can be used as a pass-thru tbc to your PC capture device. Those are two of the less expensive ways of getting your hands on a line tbc, unless you're willing to put up 4-digit figures or more for a shop unit. If your tapes are copy-protected, you will need a frame-level tbc in addition to a line tbc. A pretty decent frame tbc can be had for about $200 and up. Spend less, and you're back to the cheapo-adapter performance level again. Fortunately, most DVD recorders that work as tbc pass-thru units will also defeat most versions of Macrovision -- as long as you don't try to record to the DVD machine itself.

[altarvic]

I used my old MiniDV camcorder (with passthrough ability) to capture old VHS tapes. Excellent results!
Then burned them to DVD with ConvertX2DVD

[Timothy Schmits]

Wow. Would a Social Security number help? I believe the complaint is about cheapo adapters, and the O.P. is willing to pay as much as $100.

Kidding aside: as you've discovered, the cheap stuff doesn't work -- not very well, anyway. An "adapter" isn't what you need. What you need is called a line-level tbc of some type, either built-in to a high-end VCR, or able to be activated using a good (but probably circa 2005 or earlier) DVD recorder that can be used as a pass-thru tbc to your PC capture device. Those are two of the less expensive ways of getting your hands on a line tbc, unless you're willing to put up 4-digit figures or more for a shop unit. If your tapes are copy-protected, you will need a frame-level tbc in addition to a line tbc. A pretty decent frame tbc can be had for about $200 and up. Spend less, and you're back to the cheapo-adapter performance level again. Fortunately, most DVD recorders that work as tbc pass-thru units will also defeat most versions of Macrovision -- as long as you don't try to record to the DVD machine itself.

I'm willing to spend a few hundred dollars for the equipment. I have many many tapes. My movies are home movies, not copy protected.

[Timothy Schmits]

I've had some video adapters that connect my VCR to my computer often with slightly choppy, shaky, or jerky results. Sometimes just enough to be annoying. I've been disappointed. How do the pros convert VHS to DVD? I'm willing to pay more than $50-100 that an adapter would go for.

what type of content is on these tapes ? (commercial released movies? home videos from hi8/8mm? recorded tv? etc)
what is the recorded speed on these tapes ? (LP? SLP? EP? SP? etc)
how many tapes are you complaining about that you have to resort to the pros about ?
what is your computer levels skills ?
what equipment do you have currently to go from vcr->device->pc ?
and your time and patience ?
how old are you ?

Let's see. VHS tapes, SP mode. I have maybe average computer skills for a 37 year old. I'm definitely a tremendous amount better than my parents. Lots of my videos go back to the 1980s. I have an Adesso AD-200 adapter that connects the VCR to the PC. I have lots of patience. Perhaps my adapter or equipment is junk, but I'm willing to pay a few hundred to get this project going. I may have 50 to 100 tapes.

[sanlyn]

If the tapes are not retail/copy-protected, you don't need to spend $200-plus for a full frame tbc.

[Timothy Schmits]

Well, there's "professional" (gets paid to do the same crappy job with the same gear average joe would pick up at Best Buy) and then there's "professional" (experienced, tech-savvy, heavy investment in gear the average person would have no clue about).

Assuming you mean "how do I get results comparable to reputable restoration expert who's dedicated their lives to this task and makes money doing it," the answer is spend a lot of money on hardware and software, and a lot of time learning software tricks, or carefully budget for some workaround options that might fall short of perfection, but get you closer than you are now.

Digitizing VHS to a PC is a total PITA. One of the biggest hurdles is finding an encoder board or USB interface that works reliably and doesn't gag every 20 seconds on the unstable cheezy VHS signal. Like everything else in consumer electronics, newer is not always better: the selection of decent affordable PC video accessories is not what it once was. Opinions here vary wildly, but the Black Magic brand seems to be popular at present.

Depending on the PC interface device, condition of your tapes and their original source (broadcast, cable, camcorder, dub from another tape), you may need a discontinued high-end VCR with built-in image processors and/or external boxes like a TBC or proc amp. Choosing among these is the topic of many a thread here: run a search for "SVHS VCR with TBC/DNR" and "which TBC is good for VHS transfers." A top-line used VCR in good condition + external TBC + good PC video interface + software can easily set you back $800: how important are these tapes to you, how many do you have, are you willing to spend weeks and months learning the ropes of software?

The unsatisfactory results produced by your current setup could have many causes: the encoder may be a poor match for VHS, your VCR may not be a good match for tracking the tapes, the tapes themselves may be so mediocre that no amount of effort can really make them look good, or your software settings may be way off. A lot hinges on the tapes themselves: you'll get nowhere fast with LP (4 hour) or EP/SLP (6 hour) recordings- the best you can hope for is a digital copy that matches the tape. Improvement is all but impossible for 6-hour recordings, and difficult even for SP-2 hour recordings. Flying by the seat of your pants doesn't cut it: you really need to know what you're doing.

As a baseline for comparison, get your hands on a standalone DVD recorder, and dub a selection of clips to DVD at the XP and SP speeds. Standalone recorders have a number of automated input circuits that correct for a lot of VHS crap that tends to stymie PC-hosted encoders. If the test DVDs look any better than your previous PC efforts, you'll know for sure you need to make changes to that system (either in settings or trying altogether different hardware). The PC solutions offer the most potential for high-quality VHS transfers, and versatility in file formats and storage media, but dramatic quality improvements can be elusive unless you stumble upon the perfect mix of hardware and software (and put some not-insignificant time into learning the software tools).

Thanks. I'm just looking to make DVDs that appear as good as the tapes without the shakes, jerks, flickering lines.

[Timothy Schmits]

Pros use high-quality VCRs and capture with the correct video codec(s) - uncompressed or lossless AVI or high bitrate MPEG2.

The VCR I have is a general SONY VCR. No built-in TBC like the others mentioned.

[sanlyn]

Without a sample of some of your video, it's impossible to give a detailed answer. A few seconds of video is all that's needed, we don't require an entire movie. If one of your vids is MPG, you can sue the free DGindex utility to extract a short 10 seconds or so of video which will be output as a demuxed .m2v file, and post it here using "Upload files/Manage attachments". If yours is some other media or you need instructions, just ask.

Offhand, part of the problem could be poor VCR tracking, or it could be aged tapes that don't track well to begin with. Even a "good" retail tape can have playback problems. Tape playback is too inconsistent for digital video capture without help of some kind such as a line tbc or tbc pass-thru. But without a sample, you'll get only very general advice.

[hech54]

Pros use high-quality VCRs and capture with the correct video codec(s) - uncompressed or lossless AVI or high bitrate MPEG2.

The VCR I have is a general SONY VCR. No built-in TBC like the others mentioned.

You still never mentioned what video codec you say produced this "choppy, shaky, or jerky" look to the capture. I'm guessing it wasn't lossless AVI or even MPEG2/DVD?

[orsetto]

I'm just looking to make DVDs that appear as good as the tapes without the shakes, jerks, flickering lines.

If you want DVDs instead of PC video files, you will have to accept compromises in ultimate video quality. DVD is a lossy format. There are some truly talented people here who have made extraordinary DVD transfers from VHS, but it is MUCH harder than you might think to achieve. It requires years of experience to acquire enough skill to make the DVD simply match the original tape quality, much less improve on it. It is certainly possible you could turn out to be a savant who just immediately intuits the quickest path to superb quality, but honestly most people are not all that thrilled with their DVD transfers. There's only so much you can reasonably get out of VHS conversion to DVD, unless you devote a freakish amount of time and effort to the task (and are an expert at restoration). With the right combination of PC interface and software, you could store the best possible version of the digitized video on hard drives while making DVD conversions for convenience. If you do the job skillfully, the PC files can be slightly to significantly better than the DVD conversions of those files.

But you can also go around in circles until you lose your friggin mind, endlessly redoing the same tapes over and over in a vain pursuit of perfection that is impossible for most people to achieve. It becomes infuriating and pointless after awhile, until you throw up your hands and wonder why the hell you even bothered. One of the factors you need to keep in mind when perusing forums like VideoHelp is that many of the tutorials and tips and posts are old, dating from a time when many people were still viewing their VHS>DVD transfers on a CRT television like a Sony Trinitron. The old CRT televisions were FAR preferable for viewing VHS, or DVD copies of VHS. Those same transfers now viewed on an LCD or plasma TV look like bloody hell: today's HDTV flat screen technology could not be less VHS-friendly if it tried. So you see, it pays to have realistic expectations and plan ahead what your "point of diminishing returns" trigger will be. You could stand on your head until you turn blue, throwing $5K worth of hardware/software and months of effort on a single tape, and it will still look disappointing on a 32" HDTV (heaven help you if your TV is bigger than that).

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, just trying to spare you from some of the grief and wasted effort some of us have endured. Many here have VHS collections numbering hundreds or thousands of tapes: we've been at this for seven years or more. We've learned the hard way that most VHS is just plain fugly when viewed on an HDTV, and it doesn't improve after digitizing: at best, you get an "approximation" of what the tape used to look like 20 years ago when you watched it on a Trinitron.

As to the specific problems with your current setup: shakes and jerks are often caused by a plain-jane VCR feeding into most typical PC video input accessories. The average VCR was designed to feed analog CRT televisions, which had inherently huge margins for error and could correct (more accurately, conceal) flaws in the tapes. Digital encoders are precise, and they like to be fed a no-nonsense, utterly stable signal. VHS is not that signal, so the PC encoder often stumbles and glitches and rolls and shudders. There are ways around this, but it gets tedious, which is why people like me said "to hell with it" long ago and switched to DVD recorders. They aren't ideal if your goal is ultimate quality, but if your end goal is a DVD anyway, most recorders are optimized to cope with crummy VHS input that confuses PC encoders (a good DVD recorder automatically fixes 60% or more of the jerks and shakes you'll see in a [unsophisticated] PC capture). Unfortunately the only DVD/HDD recorder still available new in North America is the Magnavox MDR533. Its an OK unit and a bargain at $230, but older models from Panasonic, Pioneer and Sony were better. The tunerless worldwide Panasonic EH59 is sporadically available new for approx $350, and would be the best recorder choice for VHS.

The "flickering" issue is best cured with a high-end SVHS or DVHS vcr with built-in TBC/DNR. The DNR circuit locks down the color and eliminates flickering in large areas of red, etc. This color flicker elimination is nearly impossible without such a VCR, and they smooth out overall grain and noise as well. This applies whether you connect the VCR to a PC or a DVD recorder. The drawback of these VCRs is they are all discontinued, and some of the best are quite old and require competent techs to restore them. You can easily spend $200-300 for a Panasonic AG1980 or JVC SVHS, plus another $200 to get it serviced properly. That expense doesn't guarantee anything: quite a few tapes do not cooperate with the DNR feature, forcing you to switch it off, which brings you the same result you'd get from your existing "ordinary" VCR. That is generally the moment you head for the liquor cabinet and rue the day some idiot dreamed up the notion of 40" LCD TVs that can't play VHS worth a damn.

With only 50-100 tapes to consider, you have more options than most of us here who have hundreds or thousands. It is financially feasible to pay a true pro to digitize 50-100 tapes: you should look into that before proceeding further. Contact a reputable restoration expert like our own LordSmurf, and have him transfer one tape for you. You could use that transfer as a benchmark to try and match with your own gear. If you can't come anywhere close, consider slowly having a few tapes at a time done by a professional. You can economize by being ruthlessly honest about how important each tape really is: you could probably be satisfied with a mediocre self-made transfer on at least half of them. The most important you can farm out to a pro as your budget permits.

Good luck to you.

[Timothy Schmits]

Pros use high-quality VCRs and capture with the correct video codec(s) - uncompressed or lossless AVI or high bitrate MPEG2.

The VCR I have is a general SONY VCR. No built-in TBC like the others mentioned.

You still never mentioned what video codec you say produced this "choppy, shaky, or jerky" look to the capture. I'm guessing it wasn't lossless AVI or even MPEG2/DVD?

I've tried both AVI and MPG. I had trouble with lossless AVI. It wouldn't record on my system, or it recorded with the sound being way out of sync with the video. I tried high quality MPG. I'll try it again.

[DB83]

According to your profile, you are using a notebook. If that is so then good capturing, whilst not impossible, is a whole lot more difficult than using a PC with several drives.

[Brad]

It seems to me that 70-80% of one's hardware budget should be allocated to the playback machine(s).

USB2 sticks that capture uncompressed and any software codec with full resolution and impressive color accuracy can be had for $30 new. Troll eBay for one of the DVD recorders known to stabilize VCR inputs: as low as $35 for one that powers up but fails to read discs. You don't need that functionality to pass a signal through for PC capture.

[Timothy Schmits]

The VCR here is a SONY SLV-N50.

The capture device is an Adesso AD-200.

[DB83]

I have read some reviews about your capture device. Essentially, as you mentioned earlier, it is junk.

It may work better with a TBC between the Sony and the unit but you should outsouce a better capture device.

You have other problems though. The connection to your notebook is usb. The bus will conflict with any other items such as a mouse connected. Also capturing to one drive in your notebook you will also get conflicts as your OS is also using that at the same time.

[sanlyn]

It's not that working with a laptop is merely slow. Most laptops weren't designed for the rigors, system load, and heat generated by video processing. That aside, laptop display screens have nothing like the higher quality of mainstream-or-better PC monitors. You could hook up an external monitor, but you are then limited by poor color and slow performance in your laptop's graphics card. If you had a $2000 souped up gaming machine it would be a slightly different story, but it's still a chore and a good deal of system wear-and-tear. For a fraction of the cost you could have a desktop with the same -- and probably better -- video capabilities.

The longer you wait to get better gear, the more limited your choices will be. Better, affordable capture devices are no longer being made, and a new OS like Windows 8 is designed to discourage what you're trying to do or to make it difficult by forcing you to use crap like Microsoft's video apps. Even a better VCR or DVD-R pass-thru device would only be available as used, and those are disappearing as well.

To ask how pro's manipulate video indicates that you have some level of concern with quality and/or efficiency. A laptop as your major hardware would have you hobbled from the start. Some people do it that way, but I can't see why.

[Timothy Schmits]

I have read some reviews about your capture device. Essentially, as you mentioned earlier, it is junk.

It may work better with a TBC between the Sony and the unit but you should outsouce a better capture device.

You have other problems though. The connection to your notebook is usb. The bus will conflict with any other items such as a mouse connected. Also capturing to one drive in your notebook you will also get conflicts as your OS is also using that at the same time.

I have been using a desktop system recently: AMD Sempron LE-1250 2.20GHz, 4GB RAM, 32 bit op system, Windows 7. The VCR is a SONY SLV-N50. I don't know how capable the desktop system is I'm using. It is a few years old by now.

I've noticed the Magnavox DVD Recorder ZV427MG9. Is that junk? I can get a year warranty on that if I pay a little extra.

[DB83]

If you learn just one thing it is to keep your profile up to date. Then people will not waste their energy in posting irrelevant info.

Using a dvd-recorder is a whole different ballgame. If you want a quick and dirty method to transfer your tapes, no way to edit etc. without ripping the dvd back to your HDD, then go there.

With a destop you already have one better option. Get a second hard-drive - there should be provision for that within the system - and then part of yor issue is already solved.

[orsetto]

The Magnavox ZV427MG9 is pretty lame. The VCR section is quite poor, your Sony SL-V50 would run rings around it, and the SL-V50 isn't exactly top of the line itself. The ZV427MG9 is a decent buy when on sale for $99 (50% off), but only for very casual users with a handful of not-very-important VHS they need to copy, who would be satisfied with a straight-across dub of the tape (no editing to speak of, no customizing of DVD layout).

A surprising number of people do use these junk combo decks to make a quick and dirty VHS dub to erasable DVD-RW, which they then rip onto their PC hard drive and doctor up with PC software before burning a final DVD-R copy (or they convert it to MP4 or some such for HDD viewing). That workflow to me seems counterintuitive.

If you lean towards using a DVD recorder, my preference is to go all-in with a DVD/HDD model like Magnavox MDR533 or Panasonic EH59 connected to a separate, high-end VCR. They are somewhat better recorders to begin with, and the HDD feature allows most basic editing and authoring to be done prior to burning the final DVD-R. No time is wasted with an intermediary rip to the PC, so your PC is not involved at all. OTOH, if you have need of authoring features or file formats that can only be done on a PC, then go all-in with the PC workflow. Skip the DVD recorder, and connect a high-end VCR to a decent PC video interface and reasonably capable PC.

[vhelp]

an (untouched) sample capture of what you are getting with your current equipment would give you better suggestions. otherwise we are guessing for you.

[Timothy Schmits]

an (untouched) sample capture of what you are getting with your current equipment would give you better suggestions. otherwise we are guessing for you.

Does that mean that Youtube videos aren't what you are looking for?

[sanlyn]

UTube posts would tell us little or nothing about your original work.