What do you call the film effect, most Movies have?

[Mark97213]

Please forgive my inability to describe what exactly I am trying to determine here:

In most higher quality movies I've seen in my lifetime, the overall "look" of the movie, or the overall effect of the picture quality has what I call a "softer" or "non hardness" appearence. However, other lower, B grade or cheaper made movies, have that overall, what I refer to as the"soap opera effect" to the entire movie.

This is an effect that is regardless of the number of pixels or your display, whether in SD or HD picture quality and since I've been watching movies.

Is this called a certain filming effect or done in post filming?

I recently purchased a new HD professional grade camera hoping to replicate that softer look but only the same "soap opera effect" exists.

[drjtech]

The difference you are describing is basicly the difference between shooting to film versus shotting to video.

[intracube]

Some differences:

framerate
- most films are shot at 24fps. Soap operas are often shot 50i/59.94i. Some digital cameras can shoot at 24 or 25p which can replicate part of the film 'look'. If your camcorder does this, you'll also need to use the same shooting techniques as the pros - keep camera movement steady, avoid fast panning, use a tripod/steadicam/etc otherwise fast movement combined with the lower frame-rate will cause fatiguing judder.

lenses/filmstock
- most movies are shot on 35mm film which has a much larger surface area than the sensors on most consumer/professional cameras. Because of this, film-makers can have a very shallow depth of field to help isolate areas of interest within the frame. An episode of House was shot on a Canon 5D mk II as it has an even bigger sensor area than 35mm film giving an extra shallow DOF (1:37-1:51):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSlyOJl5Pg8&t=1m37s
please excuse the Coldplay song that has been slapped onto that scene

Unless you've got a DSLR or similar, you won't be able to easily recreate this effect.

filmstock has a different tonal quality to video. It's possible to recreate some of the effect with software.

lens filters
- soft focus is a popular technique for creating a dream-like feel.

Careful lighting is also important.

[Mark97213]

Thank you so much for the education. I do have the Nikon D90 but I wanted more ability so I purchased the JVC HM150U video camera. However, I fear it won't give me the effect you discuss. I looked at the video in the youtube link and now I almost want to buy the Canon. So how much weight do you give for the shot's fps in producing that effect? I had that most producers/directors moved to digital but that doesn't appear to be the case!?

[intracube]

I do have the Nikon D90 but I wanted more ability so I purchased the JVC HM150U video camera. However, I fear it won't give me the effect you discuss. I looked at the video in the youtube link and now I almost want to buy the Canon.

Although the D90's sensor is smaller than the 5d mk2, it is comparable to popular 35mm movie film formats. With the right lenses the D90 will give a similar depth of field to that of hollywood movies.

Different DSLR lenses will give different results; A 'fast' lens like an f/1.4 with give a shallower depth of field than a 'slow' lens. Zoom lenses are more limited in this respect compared to prime lenses - a typical zoom lens's aperture might operate between f/3.5-f/4.5 which will limit the shallow DOF effect. If you decide to go the DSLR route, investing in reasonably fast prime lenses would be a good idea. Something like a 50mm f/1.4 or f/1.8 would be a good first choice. Also consider getting an 'FX' lens over a 'DX' as the latter won't be much use if you decide to upgrade to a full frame DSLR body in the future.

Because Canon/Nikon lenses aren't compatible, once you start investing in lenses, switching manufacturer becomes less practical.

There are downsides to ultra shallow DOF. Focusing gets very difficult. So it shouldn't be seen as the holy grail.

The D90 does have some issues:
- rolling shutter is quite bad, so you'd need to keep camera movements steady to avoid the 'jello effect'. The 5d mk2 has less noticable rolling shutter, but it's still there.
- I haven't seen footage from the JVC HM150U, but it should give much sharper, compression/artefact free video with no 'jello effect' compared to the D90, 5d mk2/3, or similar. DSLRs are still designed primarily for taking stills, and are easily beaten by dedicated camcorders.

Colour correction/grading is also important. Grading + shooting 24/25p will make the HM150U look more like film.
http://vimeo.com/12036783
A lot of software is available for this.

You sound new to this so I'd suggest you experiment with your D90 and JVC HM150U for a while. The HM150U *can* shoot at 24 and 25p. If you live in the US or other 'NTSC' countries, 24p is a better shooting option. If you live in PAL/SECAM countries, 25p would be better for compatibility with TV.

So how much weight do you give for the shot's fps in producing that effect?

Hard to say, but IMO frame-rate, depth of field, lighting, grading, framing and camera-work are all equally important.

note: Some film-makers are experimenting with higher framerates, so the idea that film = 24p might not hold true forever.

I had that most producers/directors moved to digital but that doesn't appear to be the case!?

The film industry is still transitioning from film to digital.

[Mark97213]

Yes, I am fairly new to all of this and really, the last format that I was "very" familiar with was SVHS, so thank you very much for this education. I really wish I could find specific product, real world education for my JVC GY-HM150U. You wouldn't happen to be available for hire would you?

You're sooo right with the D90's shutter. It is a nice camera but the area's of capability which are important to me and together with the overall performance of the highly touted Nikkor VR 80-400, were what I thought to be my path to obtaining great stills and video all in one, left me disappointed and inevitably, purchasing the JVC 150. But as you say, there really is no holy grail.

[yoda313]

obtaining great stills and video all in one, left me disappointed and inevitably, purchasing the JVC 150. But as you say, there really is no holy grail.

Theres the kicker. Even in the great digital age it seems like dedicated equipment is still the way to go. The more you try to be a jack of all trades the less you that you are able to excel at one thing (I mean top notch stuff). You can get really close but for a real professional it would still be best to have a dedicated video only camera and a still only camera if you want it to have all the top features that both can deliver.

[intracube]

I really wish I could find specific product, real world education for my JVC GY-HM150U. You wouldn't happen to be available for hire would you?

Lol, there are too many gaps in my knowledge for me to charge for advice

But if you have any questions, just ask. If I don't know the answer, there are real experts on this site who would.

[Mark97213]

I think I've got a pretty good handle on this camera's frame rate options but I'm wondering, is there a general rule of thumb or a 'most desireable' frame rate for say a given type of scene? For example, recording a scene of Action or sporting event, as opposed to recording scene that is stagnet or with limited motion?

[intracube]

I think I've got a pretty good handle on this camera's frame rate options but I'm wondering, is there a general rule of thumb or a 'most desireable' frame rate for say a given type of scene? For example, recording a scene of Action or sporting event, as opposed to recording scene that is stagnet or with limited motion?

Virtually all films destined for the big screen are shot at 24p - regardless of content.

For TV productions, sport is usually 50i/50p or 59.94i/59.94p (depending on the country/TV system and format).

One thing I didn't mention before was how different shutter settings can affect how things look; for films shot at 24p, one might assume that each frame of the film will be exposed for 1/24 of a second. In reality, because of technical limitations of motion picture cameras, the shutter duration is roughly 1/48 second. For more info look here.

Video cameras don't have this limitation, and the shutter is usually open for the maximum possible duration. So for 50i video the shutter is often 1/50sec.

When people shoot 24p with video cameras with the intent of creating a film look, setting the shutter to 1/48sec helps make the video look even more like film.