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As some may have recently noticed here I've been trying to put a new budget cpu + mobo + ram bundle together and have come to the realization that my Sparkle PSU doesn't have an ESP12V connector for the new motherboard and may not have enough power to juice the new bundle, let alone light overclocking. So I've opened this thread to find out if I need to (or should) replace the lil guy?
HOpefully it's still good enough...
This low budget PSU is what I have now:
SPARKLE ATX-400PN-B204 400W ATX 12V 2.2 Power Supply - OEM (It's a rebadged FSP so it's a good quality build from Fortron)
These low-budget parts (except for the RAM) are what I'm going to get:
ASUS M5A88-V EVO AM3+ AMD 880G HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD FX-4100
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL
If the Sparkle is good enough (and for light overclocking), is it OK to use a 8-to-4 pin connector or a 4 Pin + LP4 to 8 Pin connector , whether or not I need to use the whole 8-pin CPU power connector for stock or overclocked settings?
Does that make any sense?
If I need a new PSU then....(sigh) what's a good budget one?
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"A computer is never finished, you just run out of money."
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The motherboard's manual recommends a 450W PSU. If you plan to install a discrete video card, you need to check the recommendation for that as well. You might get by with less than what is recommended, but why take a chance?
I have had this budget PSU for a year: http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Continuous-Delivery-Supply-ATX12V-W0379RU/dp/B002RWJ...9054998&sr=1-4
Its bigger brother isn't much more: http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-ATX12V-Compliant-Power-Supply/dp/B0058FAYQ2/ref=sr_1...9056274&sr=1-6
[Edit] J&R has a slightly better price for these PSUs http://www.jr.com/category/computers/components/computer-parts/power-supply/n/42945624...y-salePrice-0/Last edited by usually_quiet; 12th Feb 2012 at 09:05.
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I think you would be OK with the existing PS. You might find this explanation of PS ATX and CPU power connectors helpful: http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucompat/compat.html One of the major differences with newer PSs is more use of the 12V rail for CPU power. Most older PSs relied on the 3V rail for CPU use and that was the higher current output that was used for the PS wattage rating. Even though a PS may be rated at 400W, make sure the 12V rails are sufficient for the CPU power requirements.
I would probably use a 4>8 pin adapter, though most times the 4 pin into a 8 pin socket should work. The main reason they went with 8 pins on the CPU power socket and 24 pins on the ATX power socket is the terminals themselves, not the wiring. A lose terminal connection that is overloaded creates heat and can melt the connector. A very bad thing. Adding extra terminals spread the load. If you do use just a 4 pin CPU connector or just a 20 pin ATX power connector, make sure the terminals themselves fit snugly.
I run several PCs on 400W good quality PSs with no problems. My servers have about 9 SATA drives each and work fine with 400W. But, as mentioned, a high power video card can require a bit more amperage from a power supply and 400W may be a bit low. With any PS, an easy way to tell if it's overloaded is to check the exhaust temperature under load. If it's hot, like a hair dryer, you have a problem. And be aware that a PS failure can take the entire motherboard and all components with it, so not a good place to economize.
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I read the manual and it does say 450W is the recommended for a fully configured system.Originally Posted by usually_quiet
I also used the Asus Power Supply Wattate Calculator and it says the desktop motherboard is **W.(See below)
Likewise, it says the amd fx-4100 is 150 watts. I don't know if these numbers are accurate but I would say an overclocked FX-4100 on prime95 at full load would be i dunno say *** watts(See below)
?? i made this guestimation from this.
I gathered some numbers for us here too:
G.Skill DDR3 1600MHz - 2x4GB (15W)
Asus Xonar DX (15W?)
Fans (21.5W)
Hard Drives (36.89W)
No discrete/external video card will be used.
Total would be about 379.39 watts with everything on full load.
Total 400W PSU output appears to be 348W!Last edited by Stealth3si; 13th Feb 2012 at 16:28.
"A computer is never finished, you just run out of money." -
that playtool link was helpful..Originally Posted by redwudz
I think you would be OK with the existing PS. You might find this explanation of PS ATX and CPU power connectors helpful: http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucompat/compat.html One of the major differences with newer PSs is more use of the 12V rail for CPU power. Most older PSs relied on the 3V rail for CPU use and that was the higher current output that was used for the PS wattage rating. Even though a PS may be rated at 400W, make sure the 12V rails are sufficient for the CPU power requirements.
I would probably use a 4>8 pin adapter, though most times the 4 pin into a 8 pin socket should work. The main reason they went with 8 pins on the CPU power socket and 24 pins on the ATX power socket is the terminals themselves, not the wiring. A lose terminal connection that is overloaded creates heat and can melt the connector. A very bad thing. Adding extra terminals spread the load. If you do use just a 4 pin CPU connector or just a 20 pin ATX power connector, make sure the terminals themselves fit snugly.
I run several PCs on 400W good quality PSs with no problems. My servers have about 9 SATA drives each and work fine with 400W. But, as mentioned, a high power video card can require a bit more amperage from a power supply and 400W may be a bit low. With any PS, an easy way to tell if it's overloaded is to check the exhaust temperature under load. If it's hot, like a hair dryer, you have a problem. And be aware that a PS failure can take the entire motherboard and all components with it, so not a good place to economize.
from what i've gathered in this website and the sparkle specs this is what it probably looks like:
1. my Sparkle has one 12V rail split into two
(i will try to confirm the first two with sparkle tech support)
2. it's a dual 12v rail so 12v2 (216W - YEL/Black wire) is powering the CPU and 12V1 (216W - Yel wire) powers everything else.
3. the only yellow/black stripe wire i see is the 4 pin cpu connector = 12V2 raiL?
4. while all other connectors have solid yellow wires = 12V1 rail?
so just to be on the safe side i can use that 4-8pin adapter from startech to evenly distribute the 12V loads.
or to be on the safer side i could also just grab a new psu...Last edited by Stealth3si; 12th Feb 2012 at 18:19.
"A computer is never finished, you just run out of money." -
Something else to keep in mind... Inexpensive PSUs are often unable to sustain their maximum output for extended periods. If you are planning on long encoding sessions, some headroom would not be a bad thing.
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Yes I know thanks.Originally Posted by usually_quiet
But I don't encode. The most CPU-taxing or power hungry application I use is Paint.Net which i have a 4.88MB .PDN file that has under 100 layers in it.
Other than this, I think I might be in the clear..."A computer is never finished, you just run out of money." -
EDIT: after comparing a few pictures of CPU and mainboard i think on full load the CPU + mobo + onboard is around 240W. an Asus forum mod said this asrock a880g extreme 3 is similar to M5a88-v. those numbers are system total using phenom II x3 720, which appears to be about 40W more than the fx-4100. subtract this number from asrock chart woudl bring it down from 267W to about 227W ....
....now putting my thinking cap on if I OC with full load on prime95 i would need an extra 64W sooo 227+64=291W Overclocked full load from fx-4100 + M5A88-V + onboard video!
Thus, 291W + the 4 previous factors above (15+15+21.5+36.89) = 379.39W!
although realistically based on my system usage I'd have to guestimate 279W is the most I would use..100W less..
stil i'd use a kill-a-watt to keep an eye on the system should it approach 280W and above...
Last edited by Stealth3si; 13th Feb 2012 at 16:29.
"A computer is never finished, you just run out of money." -
They confirmed my intutions.Originally Posted by Stealth3si
that playtool link was helpful..Originally Posted by redwudz
I think you would be OK with the existing PS. You might find this explanation of PS ATX and CPU power connectors helpful: http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucompat/compat.html One of the major differences with newer PSs is more use of the 12V rail for CPU power. Most older PSs relied on the 3V rail for CPU use and that was the higher current output that was used for the PS wattage rating. Even though a PS may be rated at 400W, make sure the 12V rails are sufficient for the CPU power requirements.
I would probably use a 4>8 pin adapter, though most times the 4 pin into a 8 pin socket should work. The main reason they went with 8 pins on the CPU power socket and 24 pins on the ATX power socket is the terminals themselves, not the wiring. A lose terminal connection that is overloaded creates heat and can melt the connector. A very bad thing. Adding extra terminals spread the load. If you do use just a 4 pin CPU connector or just a 20 pin ATX power connector, make sure the terminals themselves fit snugly.
I run several PCs on 400W good quality PSs with no problems. My servers have about 9 SATA drives each and work fine with 400W. But, as mentioned, a high power video card can require a bit more amperage from a power supply and 400W may be a bit low. With any PS, an easy way to tell if it's overloaded is to check the exhaust temperature under load. If it's hot, like a hair dryer, you have a problem. And be aware that a PS failure can take the entire motherboard and all components with it, so not a good place to economize.
from what i've gathered in this website and the sparkle specs this is what it probably looks like:
1. my Sparkle has one 12V rail split into two
(i will try to confirm the first two with sparkle tech support)
2. it's a dual 12v rail so 12v2 (216W - YEL/Black wire) is powering the CPU and 12V1 (216W - Yel wire) powers everything else.
3. the only yellow/black stripe wire i see is the 4 pin cpu connector = 12V2 raiL?
4. while all other connectors have solid yellow wires = 12V1 rail?
so just to be on the safe side i can use that 4-8pin adapter from startech to evenly distribute the 12V loads.
or to be on the safer side i could also just grab a new psu...
that only rail 2 goes to the 4-pin CPU connector, while rail 1 goes to everything else.
the adatper is going to evenly distribute the loads in all 8-pins from both rails, even if it is just one."A computer is never finished, you just run out of money." -
The Kill-a-Watt device won't tell you much about the PS output. It only measures the AC wattage drawn from the AC line. I've used one on my PCs with power supply wattages that vary from 300W to 550W and all the PCs use about 130W - 140W AC. But that doesn't tell me how much power the PS is putting out to the PC.
But I wouldn't worry too much about it.
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oh ok good looking out..
i asked sparkle about what kind of PSU i have and if i can use it with that startech adapter and this is what he said:
Thank you for choosing SPI Power Supply.
ATX-400PN-B204 is a multiple current limited(18A per rail) 12V design Power Supply. Please note that the maximum output wattage for both 12V rails are 348W.
You should be able to use the 4Pin to 8Pin converter for this power supply, given 400 Watts is sufficient for your system. Please try to use the primary 4pin connector for the converter instead of the extension.
"A computer is never finished, you just run out of money." -
Would the PSU be enough for overclocked Phenom II X6 1035T?
is having more cores w/ the 1035T better or is having a faster clock w/ the 4100 better with my application?
does win7 use multiple cores? six cores?
I'm using windows 7 64bit, ssd, and will be multi-tasking and simultaneously using FF, GC, IE, Paint.Net and Excel
will there be no advantage of buying a six core if none of my apps use six cores?
what about windows boot time?Last edited by Stealth3si; 21st Feb 2012 at 22:09.
"A computer is never finished, you just run out of money." -
If I were try to be safe and get a new PSU that is abundantly enough for a unlocked and overclocked Phenom II X4 960T, then how many watts would I be looking for and what brand?
Is Antec good nowadays?
Antec NEO ECO 620C 620W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply
Add would this be overkill or should I wait for a cheaper deal and buy one with less watts?"A computer is never finished, you just run out of money." -
650W seems like more than enough for what you have described. If you receive the rebate, it will be a bargain. People say Antec isn't what it used to be, but their PSUs in general are still better than average. I got their 380W Earthwatts model (on sale) for my sister to replace the dead OEM PSU in her Dell. It is is so quiet, I couldn't tell it was on sitting 3 feet away.Originally Posted by Stealth3si
Last edited by usually_quiet; 10th Mar 2012 at 18:17.
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I might buy it anyway to be on the safe side and in case I get a dedicated GPU. Not sure though.
If I do get a new PSU, should I get an 80mm external fan for the PSU as well? While I don't need it, during summer season I would like to exhaust hot air from the PSU that comes from the 120mm fan pushing air into it. I've already done that with my current PSU by cutting an 80mm hole from the rear grill. I wonder if I should do the same to the new one in order to produce even better airflow.
Any thoughts?"A computer is never finished, you just run out of money." -
I don't think you need an external fan. That Antec PSU's 120mm intake fan will push enough warm air out through the PSU's back vents, and a PSU with 80-Plus certification also runs cooler than an ordinary PSU. (The losses in an inefficent PSU become heat.)Originally Posted by Stealth3si
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