Converting SD to HD

[carlmart]

I am about to start a new edit in Avid Media Composer, and I will have to deal with both SD and HDV imaging.

This is not my first edit dealing with both formats, but I am willing to understand things a bit further this time.

Last year I edited a doc mixing both formats too, and I did two things:

1) Processb SD images using avisynth filters

2) Convert SD to HD.

Results were good but I wonder if they could be better. I have always wondered why my DVD, which has an upscaler, can process DVD images to "fake HD" and make things look better, with more apparent resolution than I could ever get with available avisynth filters. What do upscalers do that can not be (or can be) imitated with a filter?

[dragonkeeper]

I have always wondered why my DVD, which has an upscaler, can process DVD images to "fake HD" and make things look better, with more apparent resolution than I could ever get with available avisynth filters. What do upscalers do that can not be (or can be) imitated with a filter?

If this is the case for you your doing something wrong or perhaps you are vision impaired . The ability to upscale video in MPC while correcting things like saturation, and edge-sharpening (producing a more natural and cleaner image ) is one of the reasons that contributed to me building my first HTPC.

Check out the HTPC forums you should find a few guides on the subject. avsfourum.com
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=922773

[carlmart]

My main intention for this project is to be shown in film theaters, either converted to film or on theaters with HD projectors.

So I don't see what guides may I find on HTPC forums that may help me here. I would like my HD converted images to look very good on every place it is screened, not on any computer. So I need a result that should be the same or better any way I show it.

Edge sharpening is one of the things that certainly tell-tales an SD image, as well as haloing, and that is something you can quite correct with Avid tools. Saturation or chroma you can quite well.

Another you can do with Avid MC is defocusing areas, or darkening/lightening others, which is very important on small cameras video.

[dragonkeeper]

My main intention for this project is to be shown in film theaters, either converted to film or on theaters with HD projectors.

So I don't see what guides may I find on HTPC forums that may help me here. I would like my HD converted images to look very good on every place it is screened, not on any computer. So I need a result that should be the same or better any way I show it.

The same techniques used by MPC to upscale with ffdshow + avisynth can be applied to the video when encoding. I veiw my movies on an HD Projector with 120" screen and i can tell you DVD movies definitely look better when up-scaled by my HTPC than by any of my hardware (Phillips upscaling dvd player, Toshiba HD-DVD player, and Sony Blu-ray player)

[carlmart]

So what are the techniques MPC is using to upscale? What filters are applied?

BTW: My upscaling DVD does a much better job than my LG BD390.

In fact I was using my Onkyo receiver to upscale my SD Sky signal, but the Onkyo is not working now. Is there an upscaler that I can use?

[turk690]

I am about to start a new edit in Avid Media Composer, and I will have to deal with both SD and HDV imaging.

This is not my first edit dealing with both formats, but I am willing to understand things a bit further this time.

Last year I edited a doc mixing both formats too, and I did two things:

1) Processb SD images using avisynth filters

2) Convert SD to HD.

Results were good but I wonder if they could be better. I have always wondered why my DVD, which has an upscaler, can process DVD images to "fake HD" and make things look better, with more apparent resolution than I could ever get with available avisynth filters. What do upscalers do that can not be (or can be) imitated with a filter?

In a project that has HD and SD source files but HD output, I have always thought Premiere's abilities for resizing SD clips to HD wanting. With at times tons of SD and HD clips in a project that came from everywhere using a variety of codecs and resolutions, and having to use intermediate codecs, I no longer wanted to tangle with scripts like avisynth and the like. This led me to Boris Uprez plug-in for Premiere Pro CS5, which upsizes SD clips to HD. Worked very well for me such that well-lit SD clips resized to HD in the timeline approach the quality of actual HD clips.

[carlmart]

That is very good news!

That same filter can be used in Avid MC too, if I'm not wrong. At least I just read some comments on how to use it with Avid Nitris in 2008, so it certainly works in Media Composer by now. Probaby improved too.

Hopefully I can do all that within Avid, which is much better.

There's another filter or plug-in called Instant HD from Magic Bullet, but I haven't read of anyone using it yet.

[epsilonalpha]

Well, apparently it's not really different than lanzcos resize, here's a nice comparison article http://www.infognition.com/articles/video_resize_shootout.html

[carlmart]

That it's a resize I have no doubt. Question is how you can work on that image to improve it at the same time.

Are you sure that Infognition chart isn't just selling their product Video Enhancer?

How old is that comparison chart?

If I'm not wrong, when I did my upscale in 2010 using Avisynth filters, I did use Lancsos with some sharpening. Antihalos made the image too fuzzy.

So I wonder if the tools have improved since last year.

[dragonkeeper]

So what are the techniques MPC is using to upscale? What filters are applied?

I don't recall the exact filter chain but something as simle as this can get you get results depending on the source.

If the source is mpeg2 i would use dgindex to make a dv2 file. then load it into avisynth.

LoadPlugin ("D:\avisynthPlugins\dgdecode\dgdecode.dll")
video=MPEG2Source("O:\testFile.dv2")

#Resize
video=Spline36Resize(video,1920,800).Sharpen(0.3)

#Add Borders
h=video.height
b=(1080-h)/2
video=AddBorders(video,0,b,0,b)

BTW: My upscaling DVD does a much better job than my LG BD390.

Same here i have a Phillips DVD player i bought some time ago for $78 dollars, it does a much better job than both my Toshiba HD player and My sony blu-ray player.

In fact I was using my Onkyo receiver to upscale my SD Sky signal, but the Onkyo is not working now. Is there an upscaler that I can use?

I've not attempted this but i have seen several articles on upscaling broadcast signals, but you will have to run the signal through your PC in all of the articles i have read. But i also believe the WDTV can upscale as well, but i'm not sure if you can pass a signal through it and upscale it. As i don't own one of the units but many of the members here do so maybe one of them can chime in.

[dragonkeeper]

Well, apparently it's not really different than lanzcos resize, here's a nice comparison article http://www.infognition.com/articles/video_resize_shootout.html

I reviewed that article some time ago i actually believe someone on the forum did a write up about it. When it comes to SD to HD conversion you're better off saving your money and frameserving avisynth into your applications. You can achieve better overall results than most of the plug-ins mention in that article.

[epsilonalpha]

I actually didn't like the video enhancer result, I believe I could find better script with avisynth. (btw, that I quoted article just to show that Boris Uprez plug-in mentioned earlier isn't exactly better than free means).

[dragonkeeper]

(btw, that I quoted article just to show that Boris Uprez plug-in mentioned earlier isn't exactly better than free means).

Yah I got that.
When I was searching for the same thing I was hard pressed to find a good plug-in, avisynth did the best over all as i was able to configure the filter chain that worked best with the video source. With application plug-ins the best you can do is tweak the settings, with avisynth you can change the method of re-size to find one that best suits the source. Aside from the built in re-sizer there are many scripts you can down load and import into your avisyth script (so one would only need to learn very basic scripting). IMHO avsynth is the way to go when you need to re-size and you are looking at preserving as much detail as possible.

[carlmart]

Yes, but it's not very practical if you edit using Avid, because you can only read tha captured file with Avid.

So you have to recapture it again, separately, every single piece you will be upscaling. Which does work when you have a long shot that you will intercut with HD.

In the end it's better to capture SD using WinDV, which ends up as avi, and then import that from Avid. Later you can use the selected avi files to load on an external upscaler with avisynth filters.

So if there was a way I could do it inside Avid, then it would be much better.