Recommendations for calibrating a westinghouse lcd hdtv?

[yoda313]

Ok I bumped into an article on cnet about hdtv settings and decided it was high time I got to fiddling with my settings. I have a 32" lcd westinghouse hdtv. I can provide a model number if it will help.

As far as I know I have it on factory default. Though I think I have the brightness cranked up and I'm using either sport or vivid preset but I can't remember which.

WHAT is the best way to calibrate a hdtv?

I use it for hd cable with comcast motorola dvr, xbox 360 gaming, and ps3 gaming and ps3 bluray. I also have a htpc with it.

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I have all the Star Wars movies on dvd. Would the thx test screen be the place to start? How do I use it properly? Do I need to adjust every setting to get it to match properly?

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Is there a download of a test pattern that I could burn to disc or load into my xbox or ps3 via divx or h264 or something?

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I have never really had a complaint on my hdtv but I was looking to see if I could maximize my set. FYI its about 4 years old give or take. Thanks.

Edit - I did search the forum but the most recent thread about calibrating was last year and the most recent discussion on a test disc was 2008 so I was looking for something more recent.

[jagabo]

As far as I know I have it on factory default. Though I think I have the brightness cranked up and I'm using either sport or vivid preset but I can't remember which.

If that's what you like, you probably won't be happy with calibrated results.

WHAT is the best way to calibrate a hdtv?

With a calibration device like:
http://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-EODLT-Eye-One-Display-LT/dp/B000CR78CE/
or manually with something like:
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-Essentials-Basics-Blu-ray/dp/B000V6LST0/

I have all the Star Wars movies on dvd. Would the thx test screen be the place to start?

Yes. That's why they're there.

How do I use it properly? Do I need to adjust every setting to get it to match properly?

I'm not sure exactly what the THX test patterns are.

Is there a download of a test pattern that I could burn to disc or load into my xbox or ps3 via divx or h264 or something?

You have to be careful about downloading test patterns. If they don't come as a DVD ISO image or an DVD compatible MPEG 2 video you may not convert them to DVD correctly.

The most important setting to get correct is the black level. The following post has some information black levels and a DV AVI file you can convert (make sure you do it correctly) to a DVD.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/326496-file-in-Virtualdub-has-strange-colors-when-o...=1#post2022085

[manono]

I have all the Star Wars movies on dvd. Would the thx test screen be the place to start? How do I use it properly? Do I need to adjust every setting to get it to match properly?

Yep, use those if you don't want to spend money for a professional to do it for you, or for the calibration DVDs. You can get about 90% of what needs doing by using those. Some can't be done, but just getting the brightness/contrast/gamma set properly will help a whole lot. You might be surprised how different it is from your current settings (do you really use 'Vivid'?), but once you get used to the more 'lifelike' appearance you should be very happy. The THX calibration on the Star Wars DVDs has very detailed instructions about how to use them. Just do what they say.

[yoda313]

If that's what you like, you probably won't be happy with calibrated results.

I am suspicious about that.

My main concern about doing a full calibration is I use my hdtv for so many different applications. I watch sports, reality (well mythbusters and the food network - not snooky and mtv!) and other cable stuff mostly history channel. And I also play games and watch movies from dvd and bluray sources.

Will a "properly" adjusted set work well across all these sources? I do have a user preset option but I don't know if I have the ability to say set a preset for each situation, I think it only has one user definied setting.

or manually with something like:
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-...dp/B000V6LST0/

Would that be available at best buy? I might consider it after fooling with the thx stuff

You have to be careful about downloading test patterns. If they don't come as a DVD ISO image or an DVD compatible MPEG 2 video you may not convert them to DVD correctly.

That thought had occured to me after posting.

(do you really use 'Vivid'?)

I really don't know, but I do have it on some preset.

The THX calibration on the Star Wars DVDs has very detailed instructions about how to use them. Just do what they say.

Sounds good. I'll try to tackle that tonight.

You can get about 90% of what needs doing by using those. Some can't be done, but just getting the brightness/contrast/gamma set properly will help a whole lot.

Thats good to know.

You might be surprised how different it is from your current settings (do you really use 'Vivid'?), but once you get used to the more 'lifelike' appearance you should be very happy.

As I mentioned to jagabo's point above how well will this translate between different source material? I use hd cable, dvds, bluray, and video games (ps3 and 360). Will it naturally blend between them or will one stand out more than the other?


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On a side note I was watching the nhl playoffs last night (Red Wings won! Yeah!) and the white levels on the rink ice were way blown out of proportion. It was pretty distracting, it was cranked up way too white. I fooled around in the settings and turns out somehow the COLOR was set to cool (it used temperature vocabulary in the preset labeling, I did not get into the manual slider yet). I selected neutral instead and the white levels looked much much better.

I'm not sure why it was set that way as when I watched hockey on the fox sports broadcast the other night the white level was just fine. I wonder if the VERSUS channel was doing something differently??? (both were the hd channels fyi).

edit - regarding the presets I suppose I could set my manual mode to the user defined setting and then simply switch to a factory preset for a given situation if I am more comfortable with it. Say for gaming for example, i could just switch to a diffferent preset for gaming and switch back to the user defined setting for watching tv and movies.

[edDV]

WHAT is the best way to calibrate a hdtv?

I use it for hd cable with comcast motorola dvr, xbox 360 gaming, and ps3 gaming and ps3 bluray. I also have a htpc with it.

There are TV issues and there are system issues to consider. Many HDTV sets have a single user control setting for brightness, contrast, chroma saturation and hue plus several presets. The better HDTV sets have user settings per input.

Some source devices have output user levels controls, others don't. The one box that usually doesn't have levels controls is the cable/sat tuner*.

So if your TV has only one user adjustment, make the initial settings to look correct on a mix of local digital TV stations. Next run THX from your Blu-Ray or DVD player. If the player has output level adjustments try to match the adjustment made for the cable-sat tuner. If the player has no levels adjustments, adjust the TV to match the THX recommendation then see how that looks on the cable/sat. Adjust the TV for the best compromise between the two. Pay particular attention to black.

When watching Blu-ray/DVD movies try the HDTV cinema preset. When playing games, try the other TV preset modes and compare to your manual setting.


* Some cable/sat systems have good levels matching channel to channel (i.e +/- 3 IRE or less), others vary widely. In the latter case, you have to adjust the TV when you change channels.

[yoda313]

Thanks eddv I'll check into it.

[jagabo]

My main concern about doing a full calibration is I use my hdtv for so many different applications. I watch sports, reality (well mythbusters and the food network - not snooky and mtv!) and other cable stuff mostly history channel. And I also play games and watch movies from dvd and bluray sources.

Will a "properly" adjusted set work well across all these sources? I do have a user preset option but I don't know if I have the ability to say set a preset for each situation, I think it only has one user definied setting.

It varies from TV to TV. Some remember the settings for each input. Some use the same setting for all inputs. It's easy to test your TV: set one input way out of whack then view another input. Is it screwed up too?

or manually with something like:
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-...dp/B000V6LST0/

Would that be available at best buy? I might consider it after fooling with the thx stuff

Probably.

The THX calibration on the Star Wars DVDs has very detailed instructions about how to use them. Just do what they say.

Sounds good. I'll try to tackle that tonight.

I found a THX calibration video on one of my DVDs. Depending on your TV, you may have to go back and forth between the white level and black level tests a few times. Sometimes adjusting one effects the other. What you won't have is the blue filter that's used in the color test patterns (your anamorphic 3d glasses won't work for this). That's where a commercial calibration disc is helpful -- they usually come with filters.

You can get about 90% of what needs doing by using those. Some can't be done, but just getting the brightness/contrast/gamma set properly will help a whole lot.

Thats good to know.

I agree with manono. You can get fairly close with the calibration videos. If you're really picky then you want to use one of the hardware devices.

You might be surprised how different it is from your current settings (do you really use 'Vivid'?), but once you get used to the more 'lifelike' appearance you should be very happy.

As I mentioned to jagabo's point above how well will this translate between different source material? I use hd cable, dvds, bluray, and video games (ps3 and 360). Will it naturally blend between them or will one stand out more than the other?

In theory, all video sources should be to spec. So a single setting on the TV should suffice. In realty, sources vary, especially analog sources. Digital sources are usually close to spec.

By the way, the vivid option usually pumps up the contrast and saturation. It's very inaccurate but many people like it because the picture "pops". If you used to watching with the vivid option you will find a properly calibrated tv to be very dull and bland. For example:



If the image on the left is what a properly calibrated TV looks like, the image on the right is what the vidid setting might look like.

[yoda313]

By the way, the vivid option usually pumps up the contrast and saturation. It's very inaccurate but many people like it because the picture "pops". If you used to watching with the vivid option you will find a properly calibrated tv to be very dull and bland.

That is good to know. If after fooling with the settings I may revert to something like that. After using the same settings for years it may be a hard adjustment.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I'll check em out and report back after testing.

[jagabo]

You should also turn off all the automatic adjustments because they also deviate from what the picture is supposed to look like. For example, auto brightness and contrast might take a dark scene in a movie and lighten it up to let you see details in the shadows. But the intention of the film maker was to have that shot be dark. All those details in the dark areas weren't meant to be seen so clearly.

[yoda313]

I do have a seperate question.

I have a deinterlace option on the set. I had a svhs (a jvc model I bought used recently) hooked up via svideo and turned on the deinterlace. I couldn't tell that anything was different. It was a commercial video tape - a regular movie not a tv show.

Would deinterlace work at all on an analog source?

[edDV]

THX blue glaases here



http://www.costore.com/thx/productenlarged.asp?peid=87&pid=930793

[edDV]

I do have a seperate question.

I have a deinterlace option on the set. I had a svhs (a jvc model I bought used recently) hooked up via svideo and turned on the deinterlace. I couldn't tell that anything was different. It was a commercial video tape - a regular movie not a tv show.

Would deinterlace work at all on an analog source?

Yes but a commercial DVD played interlace is probably telecine. Your TV would need auto "cinema" inverse telecine (ivtc) feature. In the early days this was only present on the upper range models. Today ivtc is usually a standard feature of the HDTV chipset.

[jagabo]

I have a deinterlace option on the set. I had a svhs (a jvc model I bought used recently) hooked up via svideo and turned on the deinterlace. I couldn't tell that anything was different. It was a commercial video tape - a regular movie not a tv show.

Would deinterlace work at all on an analog source?

Yes, of course.

[yoda313]

@eddv - thanks for the glasses link - 2.00 aint bad at all. I just might do that.

- regarding deinterlace - is that for digital sources only? I was referring to a svhs vcr connected via svideo.

@jagabo - care to be more specific on the hows and whys on deinterlace on the set?

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Regarding the calibration:

I did it and it looks great!

I used the thx customization screen on the phantom menace dvd with my ps3 connected via hdmi. I went through the tests a couple of times just getting the hang of it. They had a test clip to play and it looked outstanding.

Some more questions on other tv settings and whether or not I should change things around:

Noise Reduction - this has off, low, med and high settings. I currently have it on low.

Deinterlace - off or on - its set to off.

3d comb filter - off, low, med, high - I currently have it on medium.

Cinemotion - off or on - I have it ON

Should these settings be modified? Are these more meaningless than useful or do they have a real benefit/harm to the picture quality?

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fyi I checked and the presets this set has are movie, sports, game, and enhanced - I think I was on enhanced with a few tweaks but the enhanced was the base line I was using before now.

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One other complication I am wondering about:

I do have the ability to set a user configuration for each input. I could simply copy the setup for each input but is this ideal?

Also since I was using a dvd with the thx setup on it was this fully accurate for high def sources? I mean is there a bluray movie with a thx setup on it? Since the ps3 and tv were doing upconversions does that alter the source of the test pattern significantly?

In other words is using an upscaled 720x480 test pattern appropriate?

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Also I was thinking I could take one of my regular dvd players and connect it to the component and composite inputs and run the test off the Star Wars dvd for each input format. Would that make a difference to accurately represent the "best case scenario" for each input source? In other words using a dvd test pattern to configure the composite input for eventual use of vhs?

What would be the best way to scale the test for each input? How would a test pattern for a vhs source work?

Am I over analyzing this?

Thanks again everyone I appreciate the guidance. The results already look great on the hdmi input I use for the ps3. I have the xbox 360 on a vga input and I think I'll run the test on that since I also watch dvds on that. I don't know if I'll run the test on the hdmi input that I use for my hd dvr or not (I have two hdmi inputs - I also have a 3 to 1 hdmi input switch box that i use for my ps3 and pc and wdtv media player).

[edDV]

Yes, deinterlace works on analog and digital.

Some more questions on other tv settings and whether or not I should change things around:

Noise Reduction - this has off, low, med and high settings. I currently have it on low.

Deinterlace - off or on - its set to off.

3d comb filter - off, low, med, high - I currently have it on medium.

Cinemotion - off or on - I have it ON

Should these settings be modified? Are these more meaningless than useful or do they have a real benefit/harm to the picture quality?

Deinterlace should have an auto setting, but should be on for 480i and 1080i source. Cinemotion on should kick in when a telecine pattern is recognized. I'd leave both on unless you see problems.

Noise reduction should only be used for analog source when if necessary. 3D comb filter set medium is ok. This is only used for composite analog source.

[yoda313]

Thanks eddv. I'll make those adjustments.

If anyone has comments or suggestions for my other issues I'm all ears.

[edDV]

fyi I checked and the presets this set has are movie, sports, game, and enhanced - I think I was on enhanced with a few tweaks but the enhanced was the base line I was using before now.

Is there no "user" or "personal" setting? Or, can you modify all of these?

I'd start with "movie" mode since that is usually to spec. Sports (over bright), game (over saturated), and enhanced (store mode?) are deviations from standard.

[yoda313]

@eddv - sorry if it was buried in my miles of text.

Yes each input has a user configuration option. So I can set each input source to a specified value.

[edDV]

I do have the ability to set a user configuration for each input. I could simply copy the setup for each input but is this ideal?

Also since I was using a dvd with the thx setup on it was this fully accurate for high def sources? I mean is there a bluray movie with a thx setup on it? Since the ps3 and tv were doing upconversions does that alter the source of the test pattern significantly?

In other words is using an upscaled 720x480 test pattern appropriate?

If you can modify each input, use "movie" as standard for DVD (THX optimized) input. Write down the other mode defaults.

Then copy "movie" settings to "enhanced" and check those settings for the sat box. You may find "movie" works fine for HD channels but SD needs a different tweak or visa versa.

Then you can tweak "game" mode for the XBox and PS3 games.

Analog and SD digital/DVD use Rec.601 chroma reference. HD ATSC and HD Blu-Ray use Rec.709. If your TV is good enough, you may be able to see a small chroma/hue difference. Black and white luma levels are the same.

The levels test chart I like is the Belle Nuit. Download NTSC DV chart for SD/DVD. Separately downlod the 720p and 1080p charts. Don't rescale.
http://www.belle-nuit.com/testchart.html
You can encode the DV NTSC chart to MPeg2 and burn a DVD.
You can make 720p and 1080p "AVCHD" discs for Blu-Ray.

[edDV]

Also I was thinking I could take one of my regular dvd players and connect it to the component and composite inputs and run the test off the Star Wars dvd for each input format. Would that make a difference to accurately represent the "best case scenario" for each input source? In other words using a dvd test pattern to configure the composite input for eventual use of vhs?

What would be the best way to scale the test for each input? How would a test pattern for a vhs source work?

Am I over analyzing this?

You only have 4 presets so you need to decide how to use them.

I'd tend to go this way

"movie" = THX optimal for DVD player. It should also be close for HD broadcast/Blu-Ray.

"enhanced" = Modify from "movie" settings for sat SD or Rec.709 Blu-Ray HD if needed.

"game" = make this look good for XBox/PS3 games

"sports" = another possible custom setting. Maybe analog SD needs a different tweak vs sat SD.

You need to optimize these 4 settings for your situation.

[yoda313]

Thanks a ton eddv!

I think I only truly need to configure three for everyday use. I don't have my vcr setup permanently yet (I just got it last week and don't have a shelf cleared off for it yet). So I need to configure three inputs:

Hdmi 1 for cable dvr (hd)

hdmi 2 for ps3 (gaming and bluray but I'll optimize for bluray) - the pc and wdtv use this input on the switcher but I think one user setting for this should be ideal for all three.

VGA - for the xbox 360 - gaming and occasional dvd and hddvd.

I do have 2 component inputs but since I traded in my Nintendo Wii the component inputs are vacant for now. I also have two composite inputs but they aren't ready to be used yet - that will once I find a place for my vcr I just got.

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What I'll do is write down the user mode I created this afternoon with the thx dvd. That will be my fall back setting for this tweak session. I'll then take your suggestions and redo the thx dvd starting with each different setting and going from there.

thanks for the download link.

Whats the best way to use those tif files? Does the ps3 or xbox 360 play tif files? I've never tried. Or can they be authored to dvd from the picture file to dvd as stills?

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One last thing - @ eddv - you wouldn't happen to know another authorized seller of those thx filter glasses would you? They only offer UPS shipping and it starts at 12.00! For paper glasses? Are you kidding me? They don't offer usps shipping.

THanks again.

[edDV]

I load the test charts into vegas and make 480i, 720p and 1080i/p MPeg2 clips. Vegas also has SMPTE color bars and linearity charts in all sizes.

I got my THX glasses at a demo at a trade show a few years ago.

[edDV]

You can also buy SMPTE blue sheet filters like these that are designed to match the test charts for saturation/hue adjustment. You'll need to Google shop for best price. These guys sell qty 3 for $16.
http://www.filmtools.com/leepowrstfis.html

[jagabo]

I think 3d comb filter should be set to off except for composite inputs.

[yoda313]

@eddv - thanks I'll hunt around for another supplier. As long as shipping is only a few bucks that is..... jeesh...

regarding the clips I'll fool around with them.

One thing - does the wdtv display .tif files? I could simply load them on a usb stick and do it that way.

Come to think of it if the wdtv does show .tif files I can use that for the hdmi and composite since the wdtv (my gen 1 model) has composite out so I can use it for that as well.

@jagabo - thanks for the recommendation.

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I watched a movie off my cable hd dvr and I set it to the movie preset instead of the tweaked mode I was using - that hdmi was using the previous setting not my thx modification - that was on the second hdmi input.

I was pretty impressed with it. I think I may just keep that for movies off the hd dvr.

I also watched a regular tv broadcast and used the enhanced mode. I also liked that. It seemed balanced properly to my liking for the tv show.

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I think what I will do is write down the thx settings I made for the hdmi 2 input for the ps3 and save that as an "ideal" setting for that use. I'll go ahead and do testing for the xbox 360 on the vga input and the composite input. Assuming the wdtv can show tif files I'll load them into that and use it for the hdmi and composite connections.

It seems like I'll have a much better viewing experience now. The difference was pretty special on the phantom menace dvd when playing it - felt like a whole new set. I have yet to pop in a bluray to see how it handles with the new configuration.

Thanks everyone for your help. I probably won't get to more modifications until tomorrow.

Also regarding the filter glasses unless I can get them really cheap I may just not get them if these other calibrations work out right. But its nice to know they aren't outrageously priced.

[edDV]

I think 3d comb filter should be set to off except for composite inputs.

As far as I understand the capture board flow, any comb filter (line, 2D, 3D) is applied to composite only in firmware. It is turned off for S-Video or component.

[jagabo]

I think 3d comb filter should be set to off except for composite inputs.

As far as I understand the capture board flow, any comb filter (line, 2D, 3D) is applied to composite only in firmware. It is turned off for S-Video or component.

So you're looking at the schematics or a block diagram?

[edDV]

The comb filter function only applies to analog composite video. Are you asking if the driver writers can screw it up? Probably.

[yoda313]

or manually with something like:
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-...dp/B000V6LST0/

I just picked this up. It looks very good. It comes with a rgb filter strip (cardboard strip with each color about the size of a smallish remote control).

I'll be going through this in more detail.

I actually used the blue filter on the thx optimizer. Cool! I did the blue adjustment until the word color was all uniform. And I did the hue adustment until tint was uniform.

I like the results so far. But that was on a dvd using thx with the color filter. I'll go through more refinement with the bluray disc.

Its funny that this has a commentary track. Someday I might listen to it. Lots of stuff on it. Though some of its pretty basic even to me so that stuff I can skip.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Hopefully I'm on my way to having the most optimum video settings for my hdtv now.

[jagabo]

I like the results so far. But that was on a dvd using thx with the color filter. I'll go through more refinement with the bluray disc.

There should be no difference.