HD camcorder DVD burner

[golfsferr]

Obviously if I get a HD/Bluray burner then my question is mute. However before I go that route what would you recommend to maximize image quality from a HD camcorder to standard DVD burner. I have firewire and USB of course but what about software differences, does one capture and translate better than an other. Thanks in advance for all response.

[redwudz]

If your camcorder has FireWire output, then I would probably use that. Most newer HD camcorders use USB exclusively, but still transfer at full quality. Having a FW connection seems to indicate an older camcorder where FW is the better quality. But you could determine this easily if you try both.

Of course this would be easier if you just told us the brand and model of your camcorder.

Converting to DVD is another matter. You will likely change the framesize, the video and audio formats and the bitrate to adjust everything to the DVD specifications. Going to a dual layer DVD disc will give you more room and less quality loss, depending on the length of your video.

For the DVD specifications, format and structure, look to the top left on this page for 'WHAT IS' DVD.

And welcome to our forums.

[edDV]

Obviously if I get a HD/Bluray burner then my question is mute. However before I go that route what would you recommend to maximize image quality from a HD camcorder to standard DVD burner. I have firewire and USB of course but what about software differences, does one capture and translate better than an other. Thanks in advance for all response.

Which camcorder format/model?

1 Acquire camcorder file to hard disk

2 Edit if necessary

3 Export as MPeg2 or h.264 (Blu-Ray spec) in M2ts wrapper. File size must fit DVD-5 or DVD-9.

4 Depending on Blu-Ray player
4a -- Simply burn file to DVDR (e.g. Sony BDP-BX37)
4b -- Use MultiAVCHD to make a so called AVCHD disc. No recode needed for MPeg2, h.264 or VC-1.

For example, for HDV format and Sony Vegas (smart render mode) it is possible to cut edit and play DVDR from Blu-Ray player in first generation (no recode).

[golfsferr]

thanks for your replys
I haven't actually purchased the HD camcorder yet - looking at Canon's Vixia HFS2 series
I mentioned FW because I have it for an older Sony Camcorder - do any of the newer HD cams use it?
The quality of the DVDs I make now are poor after watching HD for the last several years and I'm looking to fix that but
I was wonder if I absolutely had to have a HD/Bluray burner to take advantage of it. Any advise you have would be appreciated. Thanks again.

[edDV]

thanks for your replys
I haven't actually purchased the HD camcorder yet - looking at Canon's Vixia HFS2 series
I mentioned FW because I have it for an older Sony Camcorder - do any of the newer HD cams use it?
The quality of the DVDs I make now are poor after watching HD for the last several years and I'm looking to fix that but
I was wonder if I absolutely had to have a HD/Bluray burner to take advantage of it. Any advise you have would be appreciated. Thanks again.

HDV format uses Firewire. AVCHD uses USB2 or a flash card reader.

AVCHD will suffer more generation loss in editing.

The procedure shown above can use DVDR or BD media for most current Blu-Ray players.

You don't need a Blu-Ray burner to burn DVDR.

If you want to play the DVD on a DVD player, resolution must be reduced to 720x480.

[yoda313]

The quality of the DVDs I make now are poor after watching HD for the last several years and I'm looking to fix that

How?

Dvds are standard defintionat 720x480 for ntsc. High def can be 1280x720 or 1920x1080. The resolution difference alone is significant in the amount of detail that can be shown. You can't magically upscale it beyond what exisiting upscaling can be done in hardware players. You can try but it won't be worth the effort. Let the dvd player or tv do the upscaling.

was wonder if I absolutely had to have a HD/Bluray burner to take advantage of it. Any advise you have would be appreciated.

No. There is a subset called AVCHD. It is high def material on a dvdr disc. Multiple applications can do this from highdef sources. Multiavchd being one of them.

do any of the newer HD cams use it?

I really don't know.

A lot of times you'll be dealing with flash media for hd cameras. Or models with internal harddrives. Than it would be a simple file transfer over usb rather than realtime capturing.

[redwudz]

The quality of the DVDs I make now are poor after watching HD for the last several years and I'm looking to fix that...

That's the 'downside' of using HD. It really makes DVD quality look bad.

I think FW is pretty rare with new HD camcorders. But USB 2.0 works fairly well. My camcorder uses a hard drive or micro SD cards and both transfer fairly quickly.

If you re-encode the HD video to DVD, it obviously won't look as good as the HD. But with careful encoding, it can look pretty decent. Of course, not converting it or converting it to Blu-ray compatible video would be the best choice for best quality.

If you have a BD set top player, I would really consider a BD burner. They are much less expensive than they used to be and even BD media is reasonable. Unless you have a real need for DVDs from your camcorder, you would save a lot of time and energy.

[edDV]

As a rule of thumb HDV @25 Mb/s or AVCHD @24 Mb/s will transfer to approx 20 minutes on a single layer DVDR or 38 minutes on a dual layer DVDR.

This is usually adequate for home shot video.

Note that BD disks will play at 1x speed, DVDR will play at ~3x which will be a bit noisy as the disc spins faster.

[golfsferr]

I am now looking at the Panasonic HDC-TM700 but one of the only downsides mentioned was editing. Because of the 1080/60p mode, third party softwares wouldn't edit it. Does anyone know of a surefire editing program that will work with the 1080/60p mode?

[golfsferr]

thanks for all the responses

[edDV]

I am now looking at the Panasonic HDC-TM700 but one of the only downsides mentioned was editing. Because of the 1080/60p mode, third party softwares wouldn't edit it. Does anyone know of a surefire editing program that will work with the 1080/60p mode?

The main problem with 1080/60p is it isn't compatible with Blu-Ray without conversion to 1280x720/60p or 1920x1080/60i.

Still you can shoot 1080/60p and play directly to an HDTV, or convert and keep the original file for future disc players.


PS: What is needed is an extension of the Blu-Ray standard to 1920x1080/60p at 35 Mb/s. The HDC-TM700 is somewhat bit rate starved at 28 Mb/s.

[golfsferr]

So are you saying that a third party software can convert it into something that is editable and will make a good HD quality DVD or then could be burned with Bluray?

[edDV]

Does anyone know of a surefire editing program that will work with the 1080/60p mode?

Premiere Pro or Vegas Pro can be configured for 1920x1080/59.94p. The problem is Blu-Ray. Also, ATSC TV broadcast does not support 59.94p. However, many HDTV sets will play 1080/59.94p for compatibility with computers.

Note terminology
60p is really 59.94p
60i is really 59.94i (newspeak) which is the same thing as 29.97i (oldspeak).

[edDV]

So are you saying that a third party software can convert it into something that is editable and will make a good HD quality DVD or then could be burned with Bluray?

No. 1080/60p is not compatible with DVD or Blu-Ray players. It would need conversion to 1080/60i or 720/60p.

[golfsferr]

Please bare with me, But how do you convert? Is it with the 2 programs you mentioned? Will Nero 9 convert. I'm not familar with a lot of the acronyms and numbers you are using but I'm going to the glossary to try to keep up I certainly don't want to buy a HD Cam that I can't get the full use out of. Manipulating all the setting before burning a DVD is not something I have done until lately and I obviously need to learn what the effects are from these manipulations. Bottom line, if I buy the PanasonicHDC tm300 or 700 will editing the video be easy to do with the right program and what is that program? Thanks again.

[edDV]

Please bare with me, But how do you convert? Is it with the 2 programs you mentioned? Will Nero 9 convert. I'm not familar with a lot of the acronyms and numbers you are using but I'm going to the glossary to try to keep up I certainly don't want to buy a HD Cam that I can't get the full use out of. Manipulating all the setting before burning a DVD is not something I have done until lately and I obviously need to learn what the effects are from these manipulations. Bottom line, if I buy the PanasonicHDC tm300 or 700 will editing the video be easy to do with the right program and what is that program? Thanks again.

If you want easy editing get tape based HDV format (1440x1080i 25 Mb/s). Almost any of the "HD" editors will work and CPU required is a Core2 Duo. An excellent HDV camcorder is the Canon HV40.

For AVCHD you will need more like a Core2 quad and software that supports AVCHD.

For AVCHD extended to non-standard 1080/60p, you will need a semi-pro configurable editor like Vegas or Premiere. You would import and edit 1920x1080/60p, then convert to 1080i or 720p for a Blu-Ray player, or play it 1080/60p on a compatible media player.

Note that 1080/60p @ 28 Mb/s requires a 16GB Level 6 flash ram for one hour of recording. These sell for around $25 on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=16+gb+sdhc+class+6&tag=googhydr-20&index=ele...l_25s02nmnao_b

An HDV (Pro MiniDV) one hour tape costs about $2.39
http://www.tapeonline.com/products/panasonic-mini-dv-ay-dvm63pqus

[JR of Collectors Item]

thanks for your replys
looking at Canon's Vixia HFS2 series

Very nice camera! I wouldn't mind one of those myself. Here's an in depth look at that Canon model in the video above.

[golfsferr]

Thank you edDV, that is very helpful information.
I hope you don't mind if I seek you out again.

[golfsferr]

edDV
The article below doesn't speak well for AVCHD. If I'm to believe the one on one comparision shown, HDV does indeed look to be more to my needs. However, your opinion would be appreciated. I have a Playstation 3 so I was encouraged about AVCHD but the drop in quality defeats the purpose. Thanks



http://www.zdnet.com/blog/ou/are-avchd-camcorders-the-next-hd-lie/998

[ranchhand]

Just throwing a thought in here... I have a Canon Vixia/AVCHD camcorder. Totally beautiful machine. Taken it on vacs, to Europe, to China, all over. Totally awsome resolution and color depth. My opinion: AVCHD is a total pain in the posterium. Ok - hold on - before all you AVCHD converts get red faces and reach for your keyboards hear me out. Don't kid yourself... if you are going to edit it, you need a seriously powerful computer with an upper end video card, or else come to the computer table with lots of beer and munchies, you are going to be a few hours. Also, many video editing packages are advertised as handling AVCHD but the reality is that it can get quirky. Three guys have no problems, and the 4th guy tears his hair to the roots in frustration. My opinion: use the KISS principle; the more you try to convert and mess with it, the worse the result gets. Moving AVCHD with USB2 is fine, I have never had a problem with it. A bit slow, yes, but after all, you are just moving from your camcorder onto your hard drive, a 1-shot deal so it's no biggie. I have played my videos straight into WMP, ZOOM Player and MP Classic from the camcorder and they play beautifully. The problems start when you want to edit, add titles and effects and burn to DVD. I finally gave up and convert AVCHD to MPEG4 using Handbrake. Lose a slight amount of resolution but it still looks great and is far easier to work with. Just one man's (experienced) opinion, take it or leave it. :0)

[edDV]

edDV
The article below doesn't speak well for AVCHD. If I'm to believe the one on one comparision shown, HDV does indeed look to be more to my needs. However, your opinion would be appreciated. I have a Playstation 3 so I was encouraged about AVCHD but the drop in quality defeats the purpose. Thanks



http://www.zdnet.com/blog/ou/are-avchd-camcorders-the-next-hd-lie/998

I'll read the article this evening and comment.

[golfsferr]

I downloaded MultiACVHD and brought into it a Mpeg-4 video I made in Pinnacle Studio 9.4. It was made at 704x480 at 2400Kbits/sec with Audio 44.4 Khz sample rate at 192 Kbits/sec. With MultiACVHD I asked it to make a Sony Playstation 3 playable disc and then copied and pasted it to a USB stick and SD-DVD. It wouldn't play from the stick but did play from the disc only the image was horrible. I then went back to MultiACVHD and asked it to make a SD-DVD compatible DVD and then went and played it on my Humax/Tivo DVD player and it was the best reproduction I have made of that particular file. Does anyone have any idea what I did wrong the first time?