Panasonic AG-1970 or JVC HR-S7900U

[magillagorilla]

Hay all,
Just wondering on peoples' preferences on Panasonic AG-1970 vs JVC HR-S7900U. I am using an AG-1980P right now but it is on loan and my friend wants it back. The 1980 has been a killer capture deck. Some of my footage is suffering from chroma noise and bad color in general. It's the tapes not the deck, as confirmed by testing commercial tapes. Which deck is better?

Also any opinion on the Data Video TBC-1000?

[orsetto]

Each machine is optimized for different things.

The AG1970 does absolutely nothing to clean up noisy tapes. It excels at playing top-quality recordings with realistic detail, has lots more range and subtlety in its detail adjuster, and has a TBC peculiarly useful for fixing blown-out camcorder tapes. Its more solidly built than the 1980 and slightly better at tracking tough tapes.

The AG1980 has the most evolved TBC ever built into a recorder. It also has a very aggressive color and luma noise filter, as you've experienced with the 1980 you borrowed. Of the various "classic" vcrs suitable for transfer work, the 1980 is arguably the best for all-round general use. Its tape cleaning circuits are somewhat less prone to the overdone results you can get with other high-end models: clear colors without too much detail loss. Unfortunately the 1980 does tend toward occasional herringbone or cross-hatch artifacts in some blocks of color, and its very sensitive to AC power fluctuations and ground loop interference. It needs to be plugged into a solid surge suppressor, and benefits from adding a grounded to ungrounded (3 prong to 2 prong) AC plug adapter.

The JVC 7900 and other SVHS JVCs, as well as the JVC and Mitsubishi DVHS models, have very effective TBCs (more widely useful than the AG1970 TBC but not quite as solid as the AG1980). The color and chroma noise filters in these models produce a specific "look" that some people love and others hate. They will clear noise as well or better than the AG1980, but tend to go a little overboard in sacrificing legitimate image detail to get there. Unless the source tape is very sharp to begin with, these filters can lead to overly-soft results on digital. Again, some people find this incredibly useful in there work, while others think it makes actors look like wax figures shot thru gauze. A great deal depends on the specific tapes and connected digitizing hardware. JVCs tend to be optimized primarily for playing tapes made on other JVCs, they track them better and do better with the hifi tracks than non-JVCs. They do well with SP-speed tapes made on other brands, but not so much with LP or EP (a Panasonic 1980 is better for slow-speed tapes).

Most of us buy as many different VCRs as we can afford, because they each excel with different tapes. It seems your primary issue is luma/color noise, so you should probably skip the AG1970 and go for a 1980 or the JVC 7900. I would suggest that unless you have an attractive offer at hand of a particular 7900 in great condition at a good price, you avoid it because its getting a bit too old and service is getting scarce. A better choice today would be any of the recent JVC DVHS models, or the Mitsubishi HS-HD2000 DVHS (which uses the JVC TBC/DNR circuits). These can be had for under $200 in mint condition if you shop carefully on eBay. They are at least 10 years newer than the 7900 or AG1980, and 20 years newer than the AG1970.

[lordsmurf]

They are at least 10 years newer than the 7900

No. Try maybe 3-4 years at most. DVHS circa 2004-2005, while 7900 is circa late 2002.
Varies slightly from country to country (i.e. Japan gets goodies long before USA, etc)

Unfortunately the 1980 does

You forgot audio buzzing.

[magillagorilla]

Good information from both of you, thanks. I didn't really know the age of the models. I guess the 1970 was made in the early 90s?

[orsetto]

Yes, the Panasonic AG1980 and AG1970 are prone to picking up audio buzz from the AC line, I should have included this in my suggestions to use a good power strip and 3 prong to 2 prong plug adapter. If you use the plug adapter to break the ground connection, the buzz goes away (unless the audio buzz is due to a poorly tracking HiFi track on a particular tape, you'd need to dial that out with the manual tracking buttons or switch to the mono linear audio).

As far as ages of various models, the 1970 is oldest followed by the 1980, then the JVC 7900, with the DVHS models being newest. The 1970 and 1980 were in production for many years as semi-pro models, there is no telling the exact age of a specific unit. The AG1970 became available in the late 1980s with the AG1980 replacing it several years later. The 1980 was sold for at least ten years, into the early 2000s. The JVC 7900 I will take LordSmurfs word on as 2002, but age is meaningless in some ways when it comes to JVC SVHS models. All "classic" SVHS JVCs with the creased metal front panel suffer from a ridiculously unstable transport mechanism that can easily get knocked out of alignment and is a total bitch to re-align. When out of whack, they track non-JVC recordings very poorly. Beware also of the "Dynamic Drum" logo, this was a misconceived feature that also tends to go really bad and when it does tracking ability diminishes considerably. When these VCRs were current, they were troublesome but worth it if you got one new as the first owner. In 2011, as used second hand prospects, they are dicey as hell because of the cult surrounding them. For nearly a decade now, people have gone bananas insisting no other VCR but JVC DigiPure is acceptable for transferring VHS to DVD. As a result, every classic high end JVC SVHS has been beaten into the ground with more miles on them than London taxis. They have been sold, shipped, and re-sold to every member on every forum that covers the topic of VHS-to-digital transfers. Because of this, I would no longer touch a JVC SVHS if you gave it to me free.

The same warnings apply to the AG1980, which has almost as much of a cult following as the classic JVCs. These have also been used to death and re-sold repeatedly. The difference with the AG1980 is that its a pro model specifically designed for regular maintainence and servicing. The instruction book even includes a scheduled servicing chart just like an automobile. Spare parts are still widely available, and since every wedding videographer in North America owned one any repair tech still in business will know how to service it. The "classic" JVCs, by contrast, were designed for high-end consumers who would replace them as each new model came out (not keep them for years and service them). They are tough to repair, parts are totally gone, and the dwindling supply of techs that can do a proper makeshift JVC restoration is not encouraging.

The JVC and Mitsubishi DVHS models have the same "DigiPure" type of TBC/DNR as the classic SVHS models, but are much newer (the Mitsu HS-HD2000 went out of production in 2005, but JVC kept pushing their DVHS until very recently with an amazing number of different models released within a few years time). By the time DVHS came out, SVHS was already a zombie format ignored in the mass market, with low-end models selling under $300 and regular VHS decks hitting the $99 mark. DVHS at $799-$1299 with $20 blank tapes was a resounding failure outside of Japan. The few sold in USA/Canada were bought by wealthy dilettantes that barely used them, so most second-hand DVHS are low-miles near-mint units. Plus there seems to be a never-ending supply of new-old-stock models or open-box demo units: if you're patient and search the websites of dealers like B&H Photo Video you can turn up a good deal on a new or very clean DVHS (if you shop eBay, DVHS are much less likely to be worn out husks than a classic SVHS). DVHS puts more demands on the VCR mechanicals than VHS or SVHS, so the tape handling and tracking is usually improved. Having much less previous use, they are much less likely to need repair.

[NJRoadfan]

The JVC 7900 I will take LordSmurfs word on as 2002, but age is meaningless in some ways when it comes to JVC SVHS models. All "classic" SVHS JVCs with the creased metal front panel suffer from a ridiculously unstable transport mechanism that can easily get knocked out of alignment and is a total bitch to re-align. When out of whack, they track non-JVC recordings very poorly. Beware also of the "Dynamic Drum" logo, this was a misconceived feature that also tends to go really bad and when it does tracking ability diminishes considerably. When these VCRs were current, they were troublesome but worth it if you got one new as the first owner. In 2011, as used second hand prospects, they are dicey as hell because of the cult surrounding them. For nearly a decade now, people have gone bananas insisting no other VCR but JVC DigiPure is acceptable for transferring VHS to DVD. As a result, every classic high end JVC SVHS has been beaten into the ground with more miles on them than London taxis. They have been sold, shipped, and re-sold to every member on every forum that covers the topic of VHS-to-digital transfers. Because of this, I would no longer touch a JVC SVHS if you gave it to me free.

I guess its a good thing I picked up my 7800 refurbished by JVC back in 2000. I always wondered why so many refurb models were floating around of BRAND NEW models. Now I know, they must have been customer returns due to poor tracking. This VCR has auto tracking issues with Hi-Fi audio and some EP tapes, manual tracking usually fixes it. At least I know it isn't beat to crap though, I hardly used it until recently. Whats funny is that I was supposed to get a 7600 from the vendor, and he sent a 7800 instead. Must be a blessing in disguise because the 7600 had the dynamic drum and the 7800 doesn't.

Here is how JVC's SVHS lineup went year by year in the US in its final days.

2000: x600
2001: x800
2002: x900
2003-end of production: 9911, SR-V10/V101

I might still pick up a AG-1980, particularly for VHS-C transfers. I have had past experience with pro Panasonic SVHS VTRs and they seem to be built much better then anything JVC ever put out.

[lordsmurf]

The x600 was <1999
The x800 1999-2002
The x900 2002-2003
But it varied a bit from 3000, 4000, 7000, 9000 lines

Quite a few returns were pre-consumer, due to the bankruptcy of many "high end" video/electronics stores that sold them. A lot of stores went tits-up after the dot-com bubble burst, pre-9/11. Floor models, unsold open box, etc. Some consumers were also confused by the VCRs, and those were returned because they expected something different (something stupid, like "makes VHS look like DVD").

Also can't say I agree with the idea that a JVC wasn't intended for servicing.

I don't think it's a secret that JVC VCRs aren't the best at tracking EP/SLP tapes.

[smartel]

my 5800 is around 1991 , i think

so tracking issues from lp and slp recording
and tapes made in other vcr
are only for auto-tracking !!
and easily fixed with manual tracking !?