New DVD Recorders - Setting 16:9 Flag?

[Plarocks]

I was wondering if any of the newer DVD recorders have an option to set the 16:9 flag when recording to DVD-R.

I was considering either the Magnavox H2160MW9 or the Panasonic DMR-EZ28K.

I am currently using a very old Pioneer DVR-7000. On this unit, there is a handy setting for "Screen Size For Record", and I can record my Anamorphic signals in 16:9, and then my 4:3 signals in 4:3 ratio so they show up in "Pillar Box" on my DVD player.

I am looking for a new DVD Recorder that can do the same, while upconverting my DVD playback to an HDMI output.

I would assume they ALL do. However the JVC DVD recorder that I bought, that was made in 2006, does not.

Please let me know, thanks.

Peter

[jjeff]

All DVDRs will record 16:9 anamorphic(if fed such a signal) but very few will set the WS bit, telling the DVD player to stretch the frame back out to 16:9. The Magnavox 2160a and EZ-28 both do not set the bit.
Most people use a PC and -RW discs to set the bit, I personally don't bother since all my TVs are 16:9 and I just have my players set to stretch 4:3 to fit 16:9. This works just fine for me but might be a issue if I borrowed my DVDs to someone with a 4:3 TV since everyone would look tall and skinny on their TV.
I've read Toshiba DVDRs allow you to set the bit, but I've never owned a Toshiba so I can't say first hand, I'm sure the older XS Toshibas had that feature but not sure about the newer LG built ones. I don't think new LGs have that feature so I find it hard to believe Toshibas would, but I really don't know.
I had a chance to buy a Pio 7000 for a good price at a local pawn shop a few years ago. It was the best built DVDR I've ever seen, if a DVDR could be sexy that would be the one I liked the gold finish, quality all around. I was just worried about getting 4x media which I was told is the fastest discs it would burn.

[jagabo]

In the USA there is no way for the DVD recorder to tell if the incoming analog video is 16:9 or 4:3 -- because 16:9 wasn't an analog broadcast standard in the USA. In Europe there is a flag in the video stream that tells the recorder/player the correct AR.

[Plarocks]

All DVDRs will record 16:9 anamorphic(if fed such a signal) but very few will set the WS bit, telling the DVD player to stretch the frame back out to 16:9. The Magnavox 2160a and EZ-28 both do not set the bit.

Thanks for that heads up. Think I will pass on those units then. Ironically, my DVR-7000 that is from 2003 allows me to set the bit. I am surprised that a DVD recorder made many years later will not.

Most people use a PC and -RW discs to set the bit, I personally don't bother since all my TVs are 16:9 and I just have my players set to stretch 4:3 to fit 16:9. This works just fine for me but might be a issue if I borrowed my DVDs to someone with a 4:3 TV since everyone would look tall and skinny on their TV.

Yeah, that is the problem. If the 16:9 flag is set right, the DVD will look correct on your widescreen TV, and then in letterbox correctly on your friend's TV. (Provided your friend has the DVD player set up correctly)

I can't use a common DVD-RW with the old Pioneer DVR-7000. It will only accept the very ancient 2x RWs, and it did not even like some 2x brands. I have a handful of the very old TDK 2x RWs. I was able to use those, but my deck did not like one of them. Near the end of the program, the disc gets locked up.

So now I just burn to DVD-R and toss them. Kind of a waste, but no other way if I need to re-author without getting another recorder or a new computer.

I've read Toshiba DVDRs allow you to set the bit, but I've never owned a Toshiba so I can't say first hand, I'm sure the older XS Toshibas had that feature but not sure about the newer LG built ones.

Many of the Toshiba XS models have really good reviews for transferring from VHS. I have not been able to find one though. I did score a used JVC DR-M100S, so I can't wait until it gets here to try it.

I don't think new LGs have that feature so I find it hard to believe Toshibas would, but I really don't know.

Thanks for this info. I will refrain from trying one of these units unless I can physically take it back to the store within 30 days. I am really looking for a new DVD Recorder with HDMI out where I CAN set the flag like my old DVR-7000

I had a chance to buy a Pio 7000 for a good price at a local pawn shop a few years ago. It was the best built DVDR I've ever seen, if a DVDR could be sexy that would be the one I liked the gold finish, quality all around. I was just worried about getting 4x media which I was told is the fastest discs it would burn.

LOL! It is quite a beast. The 4x thing is kind of wrong. You have to try different media to see what it likes.

Forget -RW media altogether.

However, both current Sony and TDK 16x media record splendidly in the unit. Plus you can set the 16:9 flag, and even adjust the audio level to get it perfect when recording from other sources. I had problems with newer Memorex and Maxell media, so now I just avoid those brands.

The only reason I am looking to upgrade is because the analog to digital processing in this unit was state of the art... in 2002. You still get a tiny bit of blocking, even in the XP mode. I never even noticed this with my old tube TV, but I see this now on my HDTV set. I will be curious how the processing stacks up to the JVC DR-M100S.

Peter

P.S. My Pioneer DVR-7000 was made in May of 2003, and had the "firmware upgrade" for the machine. My unit has both a green and yellow dot on the back. (Top and bottom, to the right of the MFD barcode sticker)
For older units, if it does not has these dots on the back, you may have to get a firmware upgrade from JVC to use 16x Sony or TDK media.

P.S.S. Verbatim 16x media does not work in this Pioneer unit. But, the same media worked in my JVC DR-M100S

[sambat]

In the USA there is no way for the DVD recorder to tell if the incoming analog video is 16:9 or 4:3 -- because 16:9 wasn't an analog broadcast standard in the USA. In Europe there is a flag in the video stream that tells the recorder/player the correct AR.

I use a Panasonic DMR-ES20 and have noticed the symptoms.
It seems to remember to playback it's recording at the correct AR while a different player shows it as 4:3?

[LCSHG]

plarocks
Some Quotes
“was wondering if any of the newer DVD recorders have an option to set the 16:9 flag when recording to DVD-R‘.

“I am currently using a very old Pioneer DVR-7000. On this unit, there is a handy setting for "Screen Size For Record",
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I may not be fully understanding your first post
Are you saying that if you recorded a program broadcast at any aspect ratio that your recorder will record it In 16x9
I think
[ jjeff ] answered your question What You See Is What You Get. I am not aware of any stand alone that will record anything other than what aspect ratio is fed to it --Old or New

[cd090580]

I have a Pioneer DVR-555H and it set the 16:9 WS flag but it depends of the source.

I have a satellite decoder connected to AV1 and a IPTV decoder connected on the S-Video1. Both decoders are set to output 16:9 but the flag is only set to 16:9 with the IPTV decoder, the sat decoder don't set the flag.

So the best way is to try....

[Plarocks]

OK. I just got in the JVC DR-M100S unit, and here is the deal with the 16:9 flag.

If I am pulling an "Anamorphic Widescreen" feed from my JVC HM-DT100 D-VHS vcr, it automatically sets the 16:9 flag.

If I am pulling a 4:3 feed through the JVC, it also is properly set at 4:3 on the discs.

If I am pulling 4:3 right from the Fios box, it also correctly sets at 4:3.

But here is where the problem sets in. If I have to use my TBC unit to override a "Copy Once" or "Copy Never" flag, I lose the 16:9 flag in the process. I have to then use my Pioneer and set the "Screen Size For Record" to 16:9 to get it to come out right.

If someone knows of a newer DVD recorder, with an HDMI out, that will allow me to MANUALLY set the flag like the old DVR-7000, please let me know.

Thanks,

Peter

[Plarocks]

plarocks
Some Quotes
“was wondering if any of the newer DVD recorders have an option to set the 16:9 flag when recording to DVD-R‘.

“I am currently using a very old Pioneer DVR-7000. On this unit, there is a handy setting for "Screen Size For Record",
------------------------------------------------------------------
　
I may not be fully understanding your first post
Are you saying that if you recorded a program broadcast at any aspect ratio that your recorder will record it In 16x9
I think
[ jjeff ] answered your question What You See Is What You Get. I am not aware of any stand alone that will record anything other than what aspect ratio is fed to it --Old or New

Yes, that is correct. No matter what aspect ratio my recorded material is in, I can set the Pioneer DVR-7000 to record it in 16:9 on the DVD.

So even if I do feed a 4:3 signal into the unit, if I set the "Screen Size for Record" option to 16:9, it horizontally stretches out the picture on all my other DVD players.

I beginning to think this feature was only included in very few DVD Recorders out there. So far I know my Pioneer DVR-7000 will do this, as well as some of the Toshiba "XS" models.

No word on whether any of the newer Toshibas do yet.

Anyone have one? Maybe even the DKR40?

[DarrellS]

My friend bought a Philips 3576 a couple of years ago and almost all of his DVD recordings have the sides cut off. The only ones that aren't are old broadcast videos that were aired in 4:3 with black bars on the sides but most everything he records was broadcast in 16:9 (he tranfers these recordings to his PC where he edits and saves to external drives).

First he used a Cox Digital DVR and switched to Dish Network a year ago. He says the files are acceptable to him but I would never buy a DVD recorder if I knew they cut the sides off of all my DVR recordings. He's tried every setting he could find but nothing fixes the problem. If he records an analog channel instead of a digital channel then it's not as bad but it still cuts a little off of the sides.

I'm not sure if the Philips is not down converting the Digital recordings to analog from the DVRs or if it is happening in the burn process.



So you're saying that if he burns to DVD-R instead of DVD-RW that this issue might be corrected?

[RowMan]

I can confirm that the Toshiba D-KR10 DVD recorder allows you to set the recording aspect ratio to either 16x9 or 4x3.

[lordsmurf]

My friend bought a Philips 3576 a couple of years ago and almost all of his DVD recordings have the sides cut off.

RTFM.

He didn't have it set up correctly. I have a Philips 3575, it's fine.
A similar problem was reported here, with the fix: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/showthread.php/magnavox-h2160mw9-overscan-2067.html?p=...1072#post11072

That one involved the Magnavox clone of the 3575/3576 series.

[jjeff]

I can confirm that the Toshiba D-KR10 DVD recorder allows you to set the recording aspect ratio to either 16x9 or 4x3.

I've also read this recently, the newer Toshibas allow you to manually set the flag. The one issue with Toshiba is they have no speeds between 2 and 4hrs, and no flexible record type of speeds either this may or may not be a issue with you, for me it would be a big issue.

[DarrellS]

My friend bought a Philips 3576 a couple of years ago and almost all of his DVD recordings have the sides cut off.

RTFM.

He didn't have it set up correctly. I have a Philips 3575, it's fine.
A similar problem was reported here, with the fix: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/showthread.php/magnavox-h2160mw9-overscan-2067.html?p=...1072#post11072

That one involved the Magnavox clone of the 3575/3576 series.

So it's the DVD Recorder setting, the TV setting or both? He said that he checked both.

He has a Onkyo receiver with built in filters that upscales also. Could that cause the problem? He has three different devices that upscale the picture. That is what it seems like it's doing to me. Blowing the picture up bigger than the screen and cutting off a small amount on top and bottom and a lot on the sides.


I'll have him double check the settings again. I'm going over there in a little bit.

[lordsmurf]

If the receiver gets the signal before the DVD recorder, it could be dropping the 16:9 flags. There was some recent related discussion on this at http://www.tvpreservation.com/forum/showthread.php/new-dvd-recorder-10571.html as well as earlier in this thread (some of the same players, too)

DVD recorders can be sloppy, when it comes to handle aspect ratios. Then again, other devices are guilty, too.

[LCSHG]

I can see setting a flag on a BROADCAST ANAMORPHIC program and flagged for16x9. When played in a DVD player and the flag is recognized it would play to a 16x9 TV in full screen. BUT if played to a 4x3 TV and a flag recognized all figures and scenes would be distorted
In my units what is fed in is what is recorded, 1:77, 1:85 , 2:35 , etc, etc, etc.. and feel that all DVD recorders do much the same
I have not run across such a broadcast and would hesitate to do this if I did .
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I believe --jjeff first post covered this QUOTE
“All DVDs will record 16:9 anamorphic(if fed such a signal) but very few will set the WS bit, telling the DVD player to stretch the frame back out to 16:9. The Magnavox 2160a and EZ-28 both do not set the bit.
Most people use a PC and -RW discs to set the bit, I personally don't bother since all my TVs are 16:9 and I just have my players set to stretch 4:3 to fit 16:9. This works just fine for me but might be a issue if I borrowed my DVDs to someone with a 4:3 TV since everyone would look tall and skinny on their TV.
I've read Toshiba DVDs allow you to set the bit, but I've never owned a Toshiba so I can't say first hand, I'm sure the older XS Toshibas had that feature but not sure about the newer LG built ones. I don't think new LGs have that feature so I find it hard to believe Toshibas would, but I really don't know.”
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In my case The TV does a very good job in expanding a [1:85 ,2:25 etc] NON 16x9 signal. it does come very close to filling the screen adequately.

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Plarocks --- Quote
“Yes, that is correct. No matter what aspect ratio my recorded material is in, I can set the Pioneer DVR-7000 to record it in 16:9 on the DVD. “

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As I said I may have misunderstood But I got the impression . It was meant that a standalone DVD recorder could/would change an aspect ratio.
I am not aware of a standalone available today that will flag a anamorphic signal If
necessary to flag a possible anamorphic signal. I would most likely use a PC
It might be a feature to use, but doubt it

[garymey]

I record a lot from TCM onto my cable DVR and then to a Toshiba D-R5 DVD recorder. I have been recording in 4:3 letterbox. When I play back on the Toshiba the picture size is fine and my Panasonic PT-56DLX25 TV allows me to change aspect ratios if needed. But the playback quality is inferior so prefer playing it on my Panasonic BluRayDMP-BD 605 for the upscale. The problem is that the picture it puts out is small, floating in the middle on my screen and cannot be changed by the TV aspect ration button.

Should I be taping in different formats offered on the Toshiba: 4:3 letter box, 4:3 pan and scan or 16:9 depending on the format of the original material. I tape a lot of old films in 1:3:3 and want to watch them as intended.

But I want to use the Panasonic BluRay to watch for that quality.

Does taping from an HD channel give me that much better a image in the recorded DVD?

[jjeff]

Is your cable DVR HD? If so you may need a component to S-video converter to convert the wide screen HD to wide screen SD. You could also try recording from the SD channel but then the quality wouldn't be as good.
Some TVs(like yours it sounds like) will not allow you to stretch or zoom HD resolutions, others will allow you to stretch but not zoom HD. When I purchased my new HDTV ability to zoom HD was of big importance to me, my Sony W4100 allow me to zoom HD, my older Panasonic LCD can only stretch HD but not zoom.
You could also set your Panasonic BR to output 480i instead of HD but that kind of defeats using it.

[usually_quiet]

I record a lot from TCM onto my cable DVR and then to a Toshiba D-R5 DVD recorder. I have been recording in 4:3 letterbox. When I play back on the Toshiba the picture size is fine and my Panasonic PT-56DLX25 TV allows me to change aspect ratios if needed. But the playback quality is inferior so prefer playing it on my Panasonic BluRayDMP-BD 605 for the upscale. The problem is that the picture it puts out is small, floating in the middle on my screen and cannot be changed by the TV aspect ration button.

Should I be taping in different formats offered on the Toshiba: 4:3 letter box, 4:3 pan and scan or 16:9 depending on the format of the original material. I tape a lot of old films in 1:3:3 and want to watch them as intended.

But I want to use the Panasonic BluRay to watch for that quality.

Does taping from an HD channel give me that much better a image in the recorded DVD?

If you are recording a movie on TCM where the original aspect ratio is closer to 4:3, you would want to record the SD channel in non-anamorphic mode for best picture quality.

For other aspect ratios, the picture will be better recording an HD channel if your DVR can be set up to output a 16:9 channel in anamorphic mode on its S-Video or composite outputs. However, since most DVRs/cable boxes only permit 16:9 letterboxed to 4:3 SD using those connections, you will likely be no better off than you were when recording an SD channel where the picture is letterboxed.

If anamorphic 16:9 480p is allowed for component output, the converter suggested by jjeff might work, but I don't know if the converted picture will have acceptable quality. (Very few DVD recorders provided a component video in connection, so a converter is necessary.)

[jjeff]

Here is a link to a very inexpensive component to S-video converter. Note the component doesn't have to be 480p, it will downconvert from HD resolutions.
I used and reviewed one of these and while I wasn't really impressed with it's picture quality, it is a very good price and would be better than just recording a postage stamp or letterbox picture if that's what your are doing.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011407&p_id=...seq=1&format=2