Will I be happy w/ the Panasonic AG-7650?

[Honkeymofo]

I just bought a Panasonic AG-7650 of EBAY and was curious if anyone has any experience or knowledge about it. It seems to have some cool features, but how will it stack up against the AG-1970, 1980 or the JVCs. Here are some of the features:

Built-in Fully Adjustable Time Base Corrector

Field Freeze Jog/Shuttle

Logical Comb Filter

Dial On Screen Menu Function

High-Speed FF/REW

Automatic Head Cleaning Mechanism

Framing Servo System

Hi-Fi system

Dolby. 4 Channels of Audio

9-pin RS-422 Serial or 34-pin Parallel Remote Control

Built-in SMPTE Time Code

Tracking Control w/ Tracking Meter

Balanced XLR Audio

S-Video, Composite & 7-pin Dub Video Connections

Fully adjustable built-in TBC Proc Amp Controls

Digital Decoder

Built-in Digital Chroma

Noise Reduction

External Sync Input

S-VHS or VHS Edit & Playback Operation


I'm from run of the mill average Sony vcr to this What should I see?

Thanks
Rob

[allenz]

Hi
I guess you didn't get any answers. I'm curious a well though. I bought one on eBay but couldn't get it to work so was able to return it and get my money back.

I need something because I have a lot of old VHS tapes I need to enhance and put on DVD as the tapes are deteriorating fast.

The tracking and TBC feature is what I really need I believe to enhance the video and attempt to bring it back to a somewhat original picture.

All that audio stuff I don't need.
Allen

[jman98]

allenz - So you've been a member here for well over 8 years now and you think that grave robbing (digging up old posts to add to them needlessly) is OK here? You're wrong. For future reference if all you have to add to an old thread is to basically say "I own one too", don't bother. You'll only make enemies here with that kind of needless posting.

[lordsmurf]

I bump old threads too sometimes, this is a fair bump.

Paging Dr. Orsetto.

[allenz]

Mr. jman98

Okay I'm sorry. I really didn't realize that post was so old in your opinion. 2007 isn't that old in my opinion as I was reading stickies and posts from 2004 in this thread. No way would I post in a thread that old.

Maybe you should see that posts so old that you would consider to be "grave-robbing" were removed from the board; or at least locked as some are.

The reason for the post is maybe that guy found his info somewhere else and would have liked to share it. It wasn't to say "I own one too" as I don't if you would have read my reply instead of just looking at the date separation.

Allen

[moxiecat]

Allen,

Search this forum. This model, as well as the similar AG-7750, have been discussed in a few threads. Here are two I found to get you started:

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic328283.html

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic287476.html
(See Orsetto's post from Jan. 23, 08 in that thread for detailed info.)

[orsetto]

These "ultra-pro" Panasonics are fun to play with and look great on a shelf, but thats it. They are so far beyond overkill for consumer-made tapes that its not even funny: like trying to thread a needle with a tree branch. Units like the 7650 are optimized for pro-recorded VHS, made on pro hardware like the 7650 itself. Yeah, it may have cost $8000 back in the day, and have the optional $2000 TBC card, but a "pro-sumer" AG1980 will outperform it by miles if a consumer-made tape is loaded. A high-end JVC will also bury a 7650 for transfer to DVD.

Models like the 7650 were designed for analog post-production studios, to much higher standards than even the best consumer gear. They're the ultimate example of "garbage in, garbage out": no matter how good you might think your tapes are, they are crap compared to tapes recorded on a 7650-level vcr itself, and it will play them like crap. An AG1980 or JVC 9600 has reading specifications matched to typical consumer tapes, and processing circuits optimized to conceal their flaws. Thats why a clean AG1980 still fetches $125-350, while an AG7650 sells for less than the cost to ship it.

[lordsmurf]

Hahaha ... I just love the way your describe some of these VCRs. So brutally true.

[edDV]

The one thing few would expect is support for SP speed mode only.

[Seeker47]

I bump old threads too sometimes, this is a fair bump.

Paging Dr. Orsetto.

I must agree with Lordsmurf here. Two years is not ancient; sometimes info happens to come to you rather late that may be of value to an OP, who never received an adequate answer. I've had more than a few posts here that never drew replies, but were just left hanging, and I would have welcomed someone shedding light on the subject, even late in the game. Better late than never.

[lordsmurf]

In my case, I think sometimes it's just good to add to existing thread content. There's no reason to always make a new thread when the older one is still just a few posts long.

The good thing about the Internet is it has so much information, the bad thing is that it tends to be randomly vomited all over the place with no clear order to it. Keeping some things together is helpful.

[edDV]

The Panasonic AG-7650 is a 20 year old design. There has been nothing new in the SVHS field in the past two years.

[buckethead]

If this unit is found to be fully operational and you decide to keep it, the first thing you need to do is remove the top cover and locate the "automatic head cleaner". This is an arm with a small foam roller on it near the head drum. Remove this entire arm, it's usually held in place with a 'c' or an 'e' clip. Over time this foam tends to turn into roof cement, and it should never touch the video heads. This is a really bad feature on the spec sheet that made buyers go "oooooooh".

[vhelp]

I just saw another Panasonic AG-6300 in my passings, these are units that will be thrown away, etc.

I also noticed that these units are mostly found in hospitals, and since I was consulting at one the other day, I couldn't help notice this one, again, same hospital but different consultation agenda

@ orsetto, in contrast to the detailed response you made to the last poster..

I know you posted about the AG-6300 before, (can't remember thread ATM) can you share some additional info on this unit ? I was hoping for more details because the web searches I come up with are faint at best. What I'm looking for are to transfer a number of commercial tapes to avi, these are film sources obviously, but I'm looking for even greater quality from these models (or else different brand/unit) that will give the results i've once seen, only once before here, though from a JVC unit that a member (who used to be here but not anymore, and he got rid of his unit) posted example screen shots of and they were pertect, to perfect to be true, but there they were, perfect! Those pics showed absolutely no chroma artifacts that I could discern. In fact, the only artifact seen was those of the mpeg because he used the D-R4 dvd recorder on it. But if he had analog capture it to avi, specially uncompressed, it would have been the holy grail of grails. But he didnt and he's gone and we can't course him to produce new pics for us to envy

If anything, can you go into some details of the Panny's or JVC's that *DO* product top quality video output, like the one-time posted samples produced by that poster I mentioned ?

I'm afraid my JVC S-VHS HR-S3910U can not match those examples mentioned and I don't think I would want to use it for the tapes I mentioned.

Thank you.

-vhelp 5273

:P *~*!*~*!~* HaPpY HoLiDaYs *~*!*~*!~*

[lordsmurf]

VCRs from hospitals = yuck, gross

[vhelp]

still, I keep hoping that I might run into a AG-1980 or something close, and I don't want to snag anything that will ultimately be a piece of junk or deadweight to throw away.

-vhelp 5275

[orsetto]

vhelp, thank you for clearing up precisely what it is you are looking for in a VCR: now I can give more specific advice re the 7650. The comments I made in the other thread about the 6300 apply exactly the same to the 7650: these are the same type of "truly pro" vcr designed to play only tapes made on similar "pro" decks with ultra-wide "pro" headgaps. You will gain no advantage whatever by using this type of VCR, and will often see poorer results than you would from a $10 Emerson you pick up from the Salvation Army store.

The "perfect, perfect" frame captures posted by that other member were obtained by using a vanishingly uncommon and rare JVC vcr, the model numbers escape me but I think the two models were SW5C and SW7C. These were hideously expensive ($5K to $7K) flagship "WVHS" models JVC made for the Japanese home-market NHK analog HDTV broadcast system (they recorded analog HDTV onto special analog "WVHS" HD tapes). I cannot imagine why the hell anyone would have ever imported these into North America, since the tuners are not compatible and we have never had an analog HDTV system- still, they do pop up here occasionally at pawn shops (!) and on eBay. The going rate for a "functional" unit is about $500, "as-is" (aka "broken and not a chance of repairing it") usually sells for $200.

These rare one-off special-purpose JVCs are different from any other VHS-compatible VCR ever made, "pro" or consumer. They combine video heads that match the consumer/Hollywood spec with the most incredibly precise transport, tracking system and TBC/DNR circuits ever applied to the VHS format. Recording analog HDTV onto a VHS cassette required this level of precision, but since the units were also able to play "ordinary" VHS and SVHS, that precision spills over onto those lesser formats making the JVC WVHS series the single finest playback decks we'll ever see for VHS/SVHS. Unfortunately, like most high-end VCRs (JVCs especially) the WVHS series is now quite old and prone to major misalignment and other mechanical issues that may or may not be repairable by North American techs. They are also quite rare and not likely to be offered by anyone local to you. They are heavy and do not ship well, especially from sloppy-packing eBay sources. Even if packed well for shipment, the WVHS recorders are constructed using a set of "daughtercards" plugged into the main motherboard (much like a computer), these connections are fragile and can be jostled loose or broken clean away during shipment. Replacement parts no longer exist, so these pricey units can be a big gamble.

A surprising number of VH members have gotten their hands on functional units, I've been in touch with three or four over the years. Most had to track down a second unit to cannibalize for parts and create one completely functional VCR, that they succeeded in this astonishes me no end. The results speak for themselves and are worth it if its that important to you, and you can find a JVC WVHS vcr, and also have the money to buy them and access to a reputable (and adventurous!) service center. No other VCR can match these at playing standard VHS and SVHS, they are the ultimate. My own personal take on this is you should pretend you never heard of these rare JVCs, for all intents and purposes they aren't really a viable option. Like many other rare and "ultimate-performance" objects, they can and will lure you with a short period of wondrous ability followed by crushing disappointment when they break down and become unusable. If you only have a handful of priceless tapes you need to digitize, it might well be worth the risk to seek out and restore a JVC WVHS deck, but if you have a library of hundreds (or thousands) of tapes, spare yourself the ordeal. Settle for buying a more-common, more-repairable, more-affordable Panasonic AG1980 combined with a high-end JVC SVHS or DVHS model- between the two you should have almost all bases covered, and you'd have two completely different VCRs capable of handling different tape problems for much less than the price of a single (albeit remarkable) JVC WVHS.

[vhelp]

I just wanted to say that my JVC S-VHS HR-S3910U is fine. It is great for the tons of EP recordings I've made over the years with it. It is a great feature to have in those days when you wanted extended play bout with comprmisable (svhs-like) quality. I have lots of series I recorded to good tapes that I will eventually begin a transfer project when the time is right. I only wish that my analog cabletv didn't shut down on me in early January of this year-I could have gotten a lot more stuff on tape in ep mode for this fun (archival and challenging) hobby.

. . .

orsetto, yes, thank you for the exhaustive details on that JVC model. Yes, it was the JVC SR-W5U I was refering about - a one of a kind, indeed.

It would seem to be possible that whatever curcuitry is responsible of causing the single main issue with vhs, "chroma" noise (or crosstalk) can be (could of or should have been) elimited, and properly featured mechanism that was not suppose to produce this chroma issue in the first place. My guess is that it was intended, on purpose, to produce this sort of (vague) chroma noosense for consumer and high end units-probably to eliminate copy violation situations. And on the JVC SR-W5U, it seems to prove this theory.

While everywhere else, in more advanced or high end units they begain sporting DNR and TBC or special one (feature) beyond their normal functions just to make more money. I mean, why not kill two birds with one stone while you're add it, ...

I'm sad to only just find this all out in the tail end of this wondering (vhs) industry, and imho, it was (would have been or should have been) comparitable to analog cabletv of the day, that day. Finding this out now is just a slap in the face. Now, they tount us with HD this and that in the things of digital television. I was telling oneone how, back in the early days of directv (2001 era) when it was new, that they were weren't selling HD hoopwah, it was more "clearer picture" or sometimes you would hear digital, but not dramaties in the way it is today, and it doesn't even live up to its (intended) standards--full of pixelation and other mpeg-2 garbadge. After all, it was and still is MPEG-2 in majority of cases except few, where they (tranport streams) may carry h264 or other source type. Anyway. Its all MPEG-2, and now they (directv and dish network) are sporting, HD hoopwah to us..more instulation. I mean, when will we learn? I don't know. I'm just blowing at my own steam of all this enlightment as they have been unfolding over these past few months or so.

Sorry, guys.., I guess I was ranting after all, oh well.

Thanks orsetto for the background info, and to all the others who started and contributed to this (interesting) thread discussion. Still, I'm hopping to find something better, for those commercial tapes. I know there is better, for playback -> capture card purposes.

I realize that the remaining brand/model units out there will, at best, be base on noise reduction technoligy unrelated to the SR-W5U 's feature. But they may serve enough for archival purposes if the right one is found. The problem with this idea is that no one seems to be able to produce sample pics for review and comparison against other sources in one's possesion. Its hard to persway anyone to provide this these days, but a few years ago many were willing.

And last, I sure would love to see some snap shots of an AG-1980 playback (commercial tapes) to compare with, but from an analog capture card, lossless or uncompress. As good as mpeg (dvd recorders) are, they are still no match to uncompressed avi's, bar none.

Thank you all again,

-vhelp 5281

[videobruce]

I'm from run of the mill average Sony vcr to this What should I see?

Day and night.
1st, it's not a Phoney, er Sony,
2nd you don't have a 'manufactured for consumer' toy. Those are build to hold up and to be serviced,
3rd it has a built in TBC,
That's for starters.

BUT, it is only single speed and playback quality of consumer tapes is reported to be worse than the same tapes being played back on a consumer machine because of the difference in head design.