Is this CPU fast enough to edit NATIVELY AVCHD in CS 4 please ?

[Zetti]

Hi all,

I am willing to move to HD and need a new computer. I have PP CS4 and and I`d like to edit AVCHD 24Mbps (will still buy the camera) in the same way that I currently edit standard DV files (no intermediary codec), I want o capture from the camera using PP CS4, edit and export the file without reencoding.

Longer times for reencoding wouldn`t be a "big" problem, as I can do that overnight, my concern is the cuttting/pasting/adding transitions task.

Is this CPU fast enough for that ?

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=37147&processor=i7-920&spec-codes=SLBCH,SLBEJ

If not, which one ? And memory modules ?

Thanks,
Zetti

[poisondeathray]

Yes it is, for 1 stream for simple cut/paste. Some effects/transitions will totally bog down your system, and you may have to render preview those sections. It won't be as "snappy" as your current configuration for DV. So "in the same way I current edit DV" is debatable

CS5 adds GPU acceleration, and is supposed to be very snappy even with multiple AVCHD or h.264 streams

You can easily overclock your CPU for snappier performance with proper motherboard and cooling, but I'll leave that for you to explore as other forums have more information on those topics

[Zetti]

Yes it is, for 1 stream for simple cut/paste. Some effects/transitions will totally bog down your system, and you may have to render preview those sections. It won't be as "snappy" as your current configuration for DV. So "in the same way I current edit DV" is debatable

CS5 adds GPU acceleration, and is supposed to be very snappy even with multiple AVCHD or h.264 streams

You can easily overclock your CPU for snappier performance with proper motherboard and cooling, but I'll leave that for you to explore as other forums have more information on those topics

Thanks, should I spend more $ on an even faster CPU ?

Zetti

[Zetti]

BTW, is Vegas Pro REALLY better that PPCS4 when editing natively AVCHD ?

Thanks,
Zetti

[edDV]

Yes it is, for 1 stream for simple cut/paste. Some effects/transitions will totally bog down your system, and you may have to render preview those sections. It won't be as "snappy" as your current configuration for DV. So "in the same way I current edit DV" is debatable

CS5 adds GPU acceleration, and is supposed to be very snappy even with multiple AVCHD or h.264 streams

You can easily overclock your CPU for snappier performance with proper motherboard and cooling, but I'll leave that for you to explore as other forums have more information on those topics

Thanks, should I spend more $ on an even faster CPU ?

Zetti

IMO native AVCHD editing at this level is years out but I haven't seen CS5. My vote is for a Cineform intermediate. Try the demo and you won't go back. I hate laggy timelines.

[poisondeathray]

Thanks, should I spend more $ on an even faster CPU ?

I wouldn't, but it's up to you. You can get higher clockspeeds than the highest tier chips by overclocking, and save $800 or so

The difference in user experience from 2.6Ghz to 3.3Ghz is minimal for editing. It's a bit faster for encoding. These Ghz ranges are the lowest and top retail SKU's

But you can notice a difference, even editing, when you go up to around 4Ghz if overclocked. I wouldn't go that high without watercooling, but most people can get to around 3.6Ghz on a cheap $50 aftermarket air cooler. Overclocking is a big topic , and there's lots to learn about it, but there are other more appropriate forums to discuss that

BTW, is Vegas Pro REALLY better that PPCS4 when editing natively AVCHD ?

If you are referring to just editing "snappiness" it's about the same.


For editing now, edDV's suggestion of cineform is a good one. CS5 won't be out for months. But if you are purchasing new stuff, make sure you go with nvidia, because the next generation for CS5 graphics acceleration will be CUDA based, not open CL based. So don't get ATI. In theory, even cheap $50 card with VP2 engine should be supported (this is the part of the card that does all the acceleration for video, not the shaders like you would use in games), unless nvidia and adobe want to rake the customers to force them to buy Quadros and "artificially" lock out people. But they have gone on record saying a GTX285 would be supported (which is the top tier consumer single GPU Nvidia card)

[Zetti]

Thanks to everybody that replied, really appreciated. Isn`t the Neoscene codec a lossy reencode ? I`d like to film in AVCHD, import and edit losslessly in PPCS4, and export directly to Encore CS4 for Blu-Ray authoring. I`m not buying Vegas then.

Is it possible to use the so called "proxy method" in PPCS4 ? Only now I understood what it is....

Thanks,
Zetti

[poisondeathray]

Thanks to everybody that replied, really appreciated. Isn`t the Neoscene codec a lossy reencode ? I`d like to film in AVCHD, import and edit losslessly in PPCS4, and export directly to Encore CS4 for Blu-Ray authoring. I`m not buying Vegas then.

Is it possible to use the so called "proxy method" in PPCS4 ? Only now I understood what it is....

Thanks,
Zetti

neoscene is minimally lossy, or visually lossless. You won't be able to tell the difference - barely. Only when you do psnr testing or difference masks. Most people don't even bother swapping out (i.e they don't use it as proxies)

You can use proxies in PPCS4, and this will give you full quality. It's also easier to edit. You might make downscaled MPEG2 I-frame proxies for editing, or even DV for proxies, then swap to your native footage after editing for full quality rendering and encoding, for example.

Here are a couple of links that go through quirks and special considerations. They don't necessarily apply directly to your case, but the concepts and steps are similar to what you would do

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eos-5d-mk-ii-hd/144428-premiere-pro-cs4-solution.html
http://www.vimeo.com/2641870 (read the comments)

I want o capture from the camera using PP CS4, edit and export the file without reencoding.

You don't really "capture" because it's a tapeless workflow. And everything gets re-encoded, even if you use native AVCHD (i.e. smart rendering or pass through with cuts only editing isn't possible, unless you buy the Mainconcept plugin)

[Zetti]

Thanks so much, any more opinions please ?

Zetti

[edDV]

Thanks so much, any more opinions please ?

Zetti

Yes. I'm curious why you are using Premiere at all if you want native or anything approaching low loss. For that you would only be cutting on I frames. I'm not even sure if Premiere does "smart render" on a cut inside a GOP for AVCHD. Most of what you do in Premiere will decode and transcode to RGB so AVCHD is forced into recode.

Why are you using Premiere Pro CS4 and what are you doing with it?

And why AVCHD if you are interested in quality? I assume a budget issue but you can afford CS4.

[Zetti]

I am used to PP, as I use it for my DV files, so there`s no learning curve. I have used the wrong words, I didn`t want to mean "no reencode", I wanted to mean NOT to change the file format, I wanna do all the editing in AVCHD format, which I assume is better at 24 Mbps than HDV

Also, going tapeless sounds awesome;

Thanks,

Zetti

[Zetti]

And why AVCHD if you are interested in quality? I assume a budget issue but you can afford CS4.

Well, AFAIK there are only two HD formats: HDV and AVCHD, right ?

Some years ago people said that, while AVCHD could not reach higher bitrates, HDV should be the way to go, but once AVCHD reached more than 22 Mbps, it should beat HDV in quality.

And HDV goes on DV tapes, right ? and AVCHD goes in SD cards or HDD cameras ?

Thanks,
Zetti

[aedipuss]

hdv and avchd are the 2 consumer hd formats most commonly used. there are pro formats that encode up to 100mbps for hd.

and yes hdv is a tape format, avc/264 not. comparing hdv at 1440x1080 25mbps and avc 1920x1080 at 24mbps would result in pretty close quality. hdv fewer pixels and higher bitrate but lower compression, avc more pixels more compression. hdv is more of an editor friendly source and avc more of a consumer final product display format.

[edDV]

I am used to PP, as I use it for my DV files, so there`s no learning curve. I have used the wrong words, I didn`t want to mean "no reencode", I wanted to mean NOT to change the file format, I wanna do all the editing in AVCHD format, which I assume is better at 24 Mbps than HDV

Also, going tapeless sounds awesome;

Thanks,

Zetti

Premiere will decode all AVCHD h.264 frames when you do anything but a cut so it doesn't matter what the export format is. Any filtering, translation or transition will be converted to RGB and then back to export format so there is loss. This is true for any MPeg GOP based format including HDV.

24 fps is sort of irrelevant for AVCHD vs. HDV. They both handle it in a similar way by padding out to 1080i. You need to inverse telecine for progressive editing.

Going tapeless sounds awesome but those flash cards are expensive.

HDV is a subset of XDCAM, so if you want tapeless you have XDCAM-EX as an option.

[edDV]

And why AVCHD if you are interested in quality? I assume a budget issue but you can afford CS4.

Well, AFAIK there are only two HD formats: HDV and AVCHD, right ?

Some years ago people said that, while AVCHD could not reach higher bitrates, HDV should be the way to go, but once AVCHD reached more than 22 Mbps, it should beat HDV in quality.

And HDV goes on DV tapes, right ? and AVCHD goes in SD cards or HDD cameras ?

Thanks,
Zetti

hdv and avchd are the 2 consumer hd formats most commonly used. there are pro formats that encode up to 100mbps for hd.

and yes hdv is a tape format, avc/264 not. comparing hdv at 1440x1080 25mbps and avc 1920x1080 at 24mbps would result in pretty close quality. hdv fewer pixels and higher bitrate but lower compression, avc more pixels more compression. hdv is more of an editor friendly source and avc more of a consumer final product display format.

aedipuss covered it. There are several higher formats.

24 fps is poorly supported in HDV and AVCHD since it is padded into 1080i thus wasting bit rate. Most users and software aren't capable of extracting to progressive frames.

http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/01/04/canon-avchd-24p-pulldown-removal/

[Soopafresh]

Spend an extra $100 and buy NeoScene. You'll be able to scrub through timelines with far greater ease than if you opened the source MTS file natively. Cheapest place I've seen it is here http://www.videoguys.com/Item.aspx?SKU=54E4543435F454E4

[Zetti]

Many thanks to everybody that replied, I have a final question please;

Does Neoscene run like a plug-in "over" CS4 OR is it a stand-alone product ?

Thanks,
Zetti

[edDV]

Many thanks to everybody that replied, I have a final question please;

Does Neoscene run like a plug-in "over" CS4 OR is it a stand-alone product ?

Thanks,
Zetti

You convert your AVCHD/HDV file to Cineform, or cap an HDV stream to Cineform, then import and edit normally in CS4.

It isn't a plug-in. It's a codec.

[Zetti]

Many thanks to everybody that replied, I have a final question please;

Does Neoscene run like a plug-in "over" CS4 OR is it a stand-alone product ?

Thanks,
Zetti

You convert your AVCHD/HDV file to Cineform, or cap an HDV stream to Cineform, then import and edit normally in CS4.

It isn't a plug-in. It's a codec.

Thanks so much !

Zetti