1080p HD video editing and capture on Apple MacBookPro notebook?

[rjamesd05]

Anyone done this?

How well does it work?


By the way, I hav already tried searching for forum threads to answer this question, using the following search terms:
1080p Mac book
1080 Mac
HD Mac
Apple HD
Apple 1080

[BJ_M]

editing yes .. capture no , not really

[Cornucopia]

For HD-capable editing software on Mac, you're pretty limited to: AVID (Composer or Xpress), FCP, and (brand new) PremiereProCS.
For Hardware, you need support for one or more of the following: HD-SDI, P2 (MXF), HDV (most likely). Not all those apps support all these options.
For HDV, you can use the standard Firewire connection, for P2 (if you're lucky) you can hook up a Firestore as ext. HD--otherwise, you'll need a P2 card reader, and for HD-SDI, you'd need dedicated breakout boxes from AVID (for AVIDs), Blackmagic or AJA (maybe others).
Plus, you'd need to think about how you want to Preview...

Some would say: "If you have to ask, you're probably not ready for it."

Scott

[rallynavvie]

I think a better answer would be "not yet". Software exists, like I'd prefer FCP on the Mac for this work, to edit the HDV once recorded/captured. However the hardware to capture HDV sources is ubiquitous and often expensive, at least if you want it done right.

I think that the hardware will become more mainstream and more affordable in the next couple years as HD becomes more commonplace. I recall back when I bought my first CD burner for a steep price it just wasn't a practical means to copy CDs. Same was to be said for my first DVD burner. And now it can be said for HD-DVD and BluRay. Eventually there will be more options and more affordable options out there, but for now you're stuck with expensive equipment.

What is your HD source? Hauppauge does make a USB HD tuner for ATSC OTA channels, though I don't know if it works with OSX. Also the quality would be questionable and may be better upconverting SD source depending on the noise. At least it cost only $100 so it's cheap to buy one for a test.

[rjamesd05]

I need some help to try and clear up what I feel is misinformation around the web as to whether a MacBookPro can edit full true, high definition, 1080p video.

First of all, it is not clear at what speed the Express/34 can operate at.

According to the Express standard, the Express interface can connect into one of the following buses on the motherboard:

1. PCI Express: 2.5 Gbit/sec/direction

OR

2. USB 2.0: 480 Mbit/sec

If it is (1) then it is 2.5Gbit/s = 2500Mbit/s which is just over 300M Bytes/s.

If Apple have chose 2. Then they are really stupid!
that's pointless when there are existing USB2 480 ports on the laptop.

I thought the whole point of Express was to offer higher bandwidths than USB or Firewire.
They've just brought out a 17" 1920x1200 laptop that is capable of displaying full HD but if they have a slow bus preventing full 1080p capture then that is really infuriating!

Secondly, some people think that Express/54 is faster - it is not - it supports the exact same speed as /34 but it's just bigger physically.

Thirdly, assuming that Express/34 on a MacBookPro is 2.5 Gbit/sec/direction then it should support high speeds, e.g. 1.5Gbit/sec on external RAID array via an eSATA Express card: http://www.macupgrades.co.uk/store/product_info.php?products_id=373

Fourth, how is full true HD 1080p high def video captured into a computer? Is it Firewire 800, for example or a custom interface.

[rallynavvie]

Wow. I mean there are so few true 1080p camcorders on the market that if you have the money to drop on one of those then you have the money to drop on the proper equipment to capture and edit the format. For instance one of the new Sony VTRs to playback the HDV source via 1394b. They all still use the DV25 transport for the HDV format don't they? Or are you capturing from another 1080p source?

Either way you're looking at some sort of 1394 interface. Most every capture device I've seen uses FireWire. Still haven't seen any SAS or SATA versions. Or you'd be looking to PCI-X or PCI-E cards which won't help you for a lapper.

[rjamesd05]

Wow. I mean there are so few true 1080p camcorders on the market...

Well this Panasonic HDC-SD9 true full high definition HD 1080p 25fps camcorder should be affordable. http://panasonic.co.uk/pukweb04-otm-cam-highdefinition/hdc-sd5eg-k/index.htm

It uses solid state high capacity SD cards (SDHC) to record onto.

Real time capture and concern over frame drops when capturing to computer is therefore irrelevant as the entire complete (MP4/Mpeg4/H.264) files generated on the card from the recording can just be copied across USB or Firewire at whatever maximum data rate is supported.

The question now is how editable these files are once in the computer. Obviously they are compressed, and they will need decompressing to be able to do frame by frame editing for example. This will generate large amounts of data. This isn't a problem on a large hard disc with sufficient RAM and fast enough processor. The real issue is if this uncompressed 1080p data can be retrieved from the hard disc fast enough at the full frame rate.

Does anyone know how well this works?

[guns1inger]

If it crushes one hour of full 1080p HD into 4GB then it is using high compression AVC, which means difficult to edit, and probably full of artifacts.

[rallynavvie]

Huh. 8 months later and we're calling me out?

[rjamesd05]

If it crushes one hour of full 1080p HD into 4GB then it is using high compression AVC, which means difficult to edit, and probably full of artifacts.

What do you use?

Huh. 8 months later and we're calling me out?

Yeah, sorry, a lot can happen in 8 months - and fortunately it has!

[guns1inger]

Personally own - still on mini-DV as I have nothing to play HD on anyway. I have access to, and will soon be spending some time with a Canon HV20, which record HDV on mini-DV tapes in mpeg-2. This is still the best quality, most usable format for desktop HD. It uses the same amount of space as DV, and doesn't require stupid amounts of CPU to process.

[pepegot1]

If you want to jump the gun-then you have to pay the price. Patience, later on, the hardware and software will be much better and much cheaper.

[guns1inger]

When pro-sumer cameras start using the pro AVC for recording they will be worth considering.

[rjamesd05]

Yes things will always be better and cheaper.

I just wanted to know what the situation is now - the original question: is 1080p video editing possible on a MacBookPro?

Addressing the other points.

Perhaps an hour of AVC/MP4 on a 4Gb card *is* full of artefacts and difficult to edit.

It's quite possible that other formats could be offered instead.

For example, someone could make a camera that records 20-30 minutes of higher quality MPEG2 onto the same card.

You have to agree that solid state memory card is the way to go. As the unnecessary realtime capture from tape to computer is no longer required. The recording is just a file on the card that can be copied perfectly, entirely, bit for bit at whatever data speed USB or memory card reader can handle. Being files means its easier to organise and find things.

8,12,16Gb cards are already out, 32Gb SDHC cards due out soon, improvement continuing with data transfer rates e.g. C4. Ample storage and performance.

[rjamesd05]

Personally own - still on mini-DV as I have nothing to play HD on anyway. I have access to, and will soon be spending some time with a Canon HV20, which record HDV on mini-DV tapes in mpeg-2. This is still the best quality, most usable format for desktop HD. It uses the same amount of space as DV, and doesn't require stupid amounts of CPU to process.

what an odd way to market a camera. This camera can do 1080p 25fps so that is what they should be shouting about but instead they headline market it as a 1080i camera, which, by-the-way, can do 1080p. How odd. Is the 1080p it does not that good then? As it kind of feels that they don't want to draw attention to it.

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Camcorders/High_Definition_HD/HV20/index.asp

[rjamesd05]

Done some more research.

The answer to the original question is yes. If you convert whatever format to Apple's HD ProRes 422 format first for use with editing. This is a lossy format but is apparently of high quality

Quoted from Apple's ProRes 422 White Paper April 2007: http://images.apple.com/finalcutstudio/resources/white_papers/L342568A_ProRes_WP.pdf

"Stunning HD Quality
• Quality indistinguishable from the most pristine sources. Maintains superb quality
even after multiple encoding/decoding generations."

"Real-time playback of HD ProRes 422 on a laptop. Even on a MacBook
Cut Pro provides real-time playback of HD ProRes 422. For ProRes 422 HQ
1080i60 format, most laptops can achieve real-time playback at the medium-
setting (1/2-by-1/2 size) in Final Cut Pro. But for 24p HD formats, even ProRes
streams will play back at full resolution on most MacBook Pro laptops. And
normal-quality ProRes 422, multistream HD laptop playback is a reality."

See also:
http://dvcreators.net/discuss/showthread.php?t=20199

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProRes_422


so it should be possible to convert MP4 AVC from the aforementioned Panasonic camcorder into Pro Res 422. Or indeed from any other format. Sure quality may vary depending on the original recording format/camera. But it IS possible.

[David Lebel]

This thread started a few years ago, and FCP is waaaaaay tooooo cumbersome. Does anyone have a SIMPLE Mac- 1080p - uncompressed - editing solution? I have a technical application in medical research.... just want to take a 1080p video clip (no sound), and dump it into a Powerpoint slide...that is IT!! I can't believe how hard this is!! any help is appreciated! Compression loses details needed for this application, 720 creates motion issues under high magnification. It has to be 1080p...

[rallynavvie]

That doesn't sound like a Mac issue but a PPT issue. Why not just HandBrake it down to something that works better within the Mac PPT build?

[lordsmurf]

I see a lot of hardware add-on boxes advertised and reviewed in Broadcast Engineering, DV and Videography (mostly BE). So yes, I think you can do it, but it's going to cost you.

PowerPoint is (quite honestly) software for idiots. If you want to make a good presentation, make a video. FCP was the right tool for the job, but other video software may be easier or more to your liking.

[guns1inger]

If you absolutely must use power point then WMV is the most PPT friendly video format.