vhs -> digital scanning for editing?

[Slayer666]

Hello, new here....but into analog vhs -> dvd authoring for years, upgraded equipment a lot(!). for getting the best quality out of a vhs in my experience it has to be captured multiple times on different vcr-settings/set-ups for being able to compare them all and then picking the best one for editing and authoring. anyway as time is more and more less on my schedule for all the work going into semi-professional analog capturing i've been wondering:

is there any professional way that a vhs can be scanned/read digital like it can be done with old super8 films?

the idea is NOT to go through all the equipment/capturing (which also can damage the source tape) but to let a vhs be scanned digital by some studio, if possible in uncompressed AVI (not 5:1 compressed DV AVI). i'm aware that this would be very expensive....just asking cause a few old short movies/private archieves here which i'd like to go that way above. official releases can suffer the same problem at points, dont ya think?

thanks in advance!

[minidv2dvd]

hello and welcome to the forums.

film can be "scanned" because it is optical. pass light through it an dyou get an image for a scanner to pick up. vhs is magnetic tape, no way to "scan" it. it has to be run over magnetic heads to "read" the info off of the tape.

[Slayer666]

thanks, thats what i've "feared". so there is no other way to go through playback vhs with vcr machines to get out the information, right?

is that what studios have to do aswell when there is an only vhs source to be released on dvd officially?

are there forthcoming other ways for (better) capturing formats from vhs?

thanks again!

[lordsmurf]

Yes, that is what they do too. Twilight Zone, for example, has certain episodes only available on Ampex video tapes. Very often, they refer to this source as "broadcast masters".

[minidv2dvd]

no there won't be any new developments in vhs. it's an officially retired format. no major manufacturer is even making tape for it any more.

[Slayer666]

but will consumers be able to capture vhs in better quality in the future? the DV-format is kinda old and 5:1 compressed, ya know?
wouldnt it then be the best way to get some capturing device doing a clean uncompressed avi-format or something like that? thanks for the quick replies!

[minidv2dvd]

you can capture in uncompressed rgb or huffyuv or lagorith, but given vhs's limitations, it's not likely to yield better results than DV-avi or going straight to dvd spec mpeg-2 which if dvd is the intended final format saves the losses from a second encoding.

[lowellriggsiam]

Welcome from the United States. I get good results copying to DVD-RAM, that gives me with a *.VRO file I can rename to *.mpg. I usually use my Panasonic ES40V for this as I can dub directly anything that is not copy protected. If it is higher quality captures you are looking for you might try a video enhancer (each one released here gets recalled due to the digital millenium copyright act) mostly here they were used to circumvent copy protection.

[Slayer666]

you can capture in uncompressed rgb or huffyuv or lagorith, but given vhs's limitations, it's not likely to yield better results than DV-avi or going straight to dvd spec mpeg-2 which if dvd is the intended final format saves the losses from a second encoding.

goin into mpeg2 directly (for example with a stand alone recorder) doesnt give me the chance for any nice editing "before" encoding into mpeg2......and i find that step very important.
the idea is capturing highest quality way/format and THEN converting down to mpeg2. even if we all made good experience with DV format, theoretical i dont see the point capturing 5:1 compressed DV AVI when it can be done uncompressed? you know: highest quality back up....and then converting 1x into the wanted format.

[lordsmurf]

MPEG-2 can be just as compressed as DV (or rather NOT as compressed as a DVD), with the right settings. Professional workflows do use MPEG-2 at non-DVD specs.

[sanlyn]

The biggest problem going VHS->DVD direct is that most tapes, even "clean" retail transfers from good original masters, have a residual tape noise. Add to that the disturbances created by tape players, and the overall effect can wreak havoc with MPEG. I've transferred a few very high-quality retail tapes directly to DVD, using quality players. The best tapes didn't have much noise, but what was there soon became annoying, especially when viewed on LCD's. Since then, I never record direct to MPEG from VHS. I capture to AVI, do any cleanup needed, then encode to DVD.

Enhancers are OK, but good ones cost plenty. Cheap ones can easily wreck a video. Even good enhancers don't do anything about noise. The tendency of most users is to pump up enhancement and try to make VHS "look like" DVD by oversharpening. The result on DVD is disastrous. Trying to use an enhancer on a problematic tape during the recording process makes hard work tougher, because you also "enhance" the noise. Once noise gets encoded into MPEG it's almost impossible to remove.

[Cornucopia]

My suggestions:

1. Exercise your tapes in a good gentle rewinder (or spare VHS deck that DOESN'T engage the heads automatically)
2. Do a quick mini-vac swipe near the tape path to catch any loose particles
3. Get the best Pro S-VHS deck (I like JVCs or say Panasonic D5545??) that includes a near-pro TBC.
4. Maybe get an additional TBC/ProcAmp for additional control (and multiple methods of VNR/sync)
5. Have the heads cleaned and aligned and tape path guides aligned and maintained very regularly
6. Use a RGB or Component or S-Video signal path (best to worst) into...
7. Pro-level SD capture board (like Aja, Blackmagic)
8. Before EACH capture, calibrate the tape, deck and monitors
9. Capture 2 or 3 times (save them all) to uncompressed or losslessly compressed RGB, or YUV4:4:4 or 4:2:2 (at worst)
10. Tidy up the head & tails so all versions are EXACTLY the same length.
11. BLEND/OVERLAY all the versions. It will maximize the similarities and minimize the residual analog noise. Save again to the same HQ format as in #9
12. All the while, monitor with both your eyes and a vectorscope/waveform monitor in a repeatable, controlled environment, adjusting as needed.

Scott

[lordsmurf]

Run audio through audio boards, too. That what I've started to do.