SIMA Stabilizers -- The Definitive Thread

[Anonymous4]

12

[orsetto]

The Sima CT devices are notorious for inconsistent manufacture: some of these work reasonably well, others have issues with black level, grain, and/or color. The newer generic Sima clones you speak of are thought to be somewhat better but some people still complain. All of the other similar devices by other makes also have one issue or another. There is no one "perfect" unit that makes everyone happy. The trick is to pay attention, know how your unit works, and tweak its settings before EVERY recording. Your mistake was to make many recordings thinking you had found the one "right" setting: unfortunately you really do have to experiment each and every time to get the best from these filters.

For the use you are talking about, the DataVideo TBC-1000 does not really work that well and has its own issues. For one thing, the price shot up dramatically last year to nearly $500 as you noted. For another, many of these make the image soft- sometimes very soft. The Sima-type units usually tend in the other direction and can make video grainier or noisier (too sharp). Finally, the TBC-1000 is very flakey when it comes to MV filtering: sometimes it clears it, sometimes it doesn't, and often you don't find out until you notice the recording stopped halfway thru when the MV signal leaked past the DataVideo.

For those who sneer at not using a computer to make backups, there are occasions when the computer is not effective. If you own a rare disc that has become scratched or damaged, it often will not copy in a PC no matter what the software, yet will play nearly all the way thru or with just some rough patches on a cheap DVD player. A real-time copy can salvage such a disc, then you can edit out the bad patches. Also, for fanatics who buy obscure titles from overseas that are only available in PAL, it is often easier to do the NTSC conversion using a DVD player (doing this in PC software can be a pain if you're in a hurry and don't have the correct tools). Depending on the source material there may not be much picture degradation either way.

Anyway the upshot of my reply is to keep your CT200 and perhaps try one of the newer units you mention. Buy from a dealer with a return policy so you can get your money back if you don't see an improvement over your existing filters. The DataVideo is ridiculously expensive for what it does, which isn't much: its necessary to correct timing errors for some people using wonky capture cards or older DVD recorders, but for everyone else it can be a pricey disappointment.

[Anonymous4]

12

[TheFamilyMan]

About a year or so ago I tried the $40 http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer/ product. It was far from perfect, the resulting picture had horizontal field shift problems that made it useless IMO. I sent it back for a refund which was honored without hassle (though I had to eat the shipping costs). My solution is one of these driven by vitrualdub. Its IQ is very good using windows XP; the only downside is that you need a computer to use it. Fry's also stocks these (if you happen to live by one) and they go on sale from time to time.

[Anonymous4]

12

[Seeker47]

A great post, Orsetto, as usual.

The Sima CT devices are notorious for inconsistent manufacture

I'd like to think I just got a bad CT-200 unit, and that -- somewhere -- a few purchasers got good ones . . . but I don't know.

The DataVideo is ridiculously expensive for what it does

Yup.

its necessary to correct timing errors for some people using wonky capture cards or older DVD recorders

Or Beta video sync going into a DVD recorder.

If you've ever mentioned this I don't recall, but have you tested the Grex or particularly the Zorilla units ?

[classfour]

I lucked into a DataVideo PC card. $48 on ebay a couple of years back.

Installed it into an external enclosure.

Works like the TBC 100 model!

[orsetto]

Or Beta video sync going into a DVD recorder.

You know, I've never heard that before! I keep postponing the transfer of my 90 or so Beta tapes, in favor of the thousand VHS I have still to slog thru, so I had no idea Beta presented additional difficulty. Thanks for the heads up, guess I'll hold onto my mothballed TBC-1000 until I get to the Beta tapes.

If you've ever mentioned this I don't recall, but have you tested the Grex or particularly the Zorilla units ?

Actually no, haven't used a Grex or Zorilla. I have tested an old "The Box" (cost me $300 in 1989), a Vidcraft, and a generic cigarette-box-sized clarifier from 1992. These all work for VHS but do not do anything for DVD CGMS. Also, these older filters are not very compatible with earlier standalone DVD recorders such as Pioneer 510 or 520 or JVC DRM100: they clear the MV but distort the overall image, timing errors by the looks of it. On newer machines like the the Pioneer 640, Panasonic DMR-EH55 or Phillips 3576 these older MV filters work perfectly for VHS but again no good for DVD to DVD backup.

For DVD backup or rescue tasks I have bought/tried the Sima CT-200 and DataVideo TBC-1000. The Sima has issues with picture quality depending on the source but it works EVERY time on EVERY disc- not once ever does MV or CGMS slip past it and cause a recording pause. The DataVideo is not reliable for this at all: it seems to be filtering OK but when I check fifteen to thirty minutes later I find the recorder has thrown up a "recording lockout" alert and made some random stop/starts. The DataVideo does output a cleaner, purer signal than the Sima but I find it very soft and again the unit makes for a lousy CP filter.

I have heard conflicting reports about the Grex- for every person who loves it there is one who hates it. Apparently it requires as much fiddling as the Sima for each recording but the Grex settings are much less obvious to operate. I'm not familiar with the Zorilla. There are reports about a generic updated Sima CT200 which give about the same feedback as for the original CT200 but I can never remember the company name or complete model number except that it has a "5000" in it somewhere (there are several threads on that unit here and at AVS).

[Seeker47]

Or Beta video sync going into a DVD recorder.

You know, I've never heard that before! I keep postponing the transfer of my 90 or so Beta tapes, in favor of the thousand VHS I have still to slog thru, so I had no idea Beta presented additional difficulty. Thanks for the heads up, guess I'll hold onto my mothballed TBC-1000 until I get to the Beta tapes.

That was certainly my experience going into the Pioneer 520. (But weren't they apt to be kind of twitchy in some regards, anyway ?) The question remains as to whether the 640 would be much more resistant to the problem -- maybe so. If there is sufficient reason to do so, I may try the alternate setup to test that.

I was just handed a 7 or 8 stack of VHS tapes, after agreeing to transfer them as a favor. They are at least 20 years old, instructional material but copy protected, and the company that put them out is long extinct. (This is just one example of how the way they've implemented the DMCA is a total crock. Go and track down a copyright holder at this late date -- much less one that actually cares. If they cared, the series would have been reissued by now, but never was. In any case, this is not going to anyone other than the original purchaser of the tapes, to retain the material before it is lost.) So, this should be a good test of the TBC-1000. I don't recall previously doing any VHS like this.

For DVD backup or rescue tasks I have bought/tried the Sima CT-200 and DataVideo TBC-1000. The Sima has issues with picture quality depending on the source but it works EVERY time on EVERY disc- not once ever does MV or CGMS slip past it and cause a recording pause. The DataVideo is not reliable for this at all: it seems to be filtering OK but when I check fifteen to thirty minutes later I find the recorder has thrown up a "recording lockout" alert and made some random stop/starts. The DataVideo does output a cleaner, purer signal than the Sima but I find it very soft and again the unit makes for a lousy CP filter.

Funny, but I did not notice any image softening on the Beta tapes I transferred. None had CP, I think, so can't comment on that aspect. I expect to do a bunch more of them before too long, though (including some vintage concert material not available anywhere else to this day, in any medium, which was recorded in Beta Hi-Fi), and we shall see what we shall see.

For DVD backup or rescue tasks, wouldn't you have a much easier time of it by doing that in the computer ?

[lordsmurf]

Forget the $50-100 "almost works" devices, and spend $200 on the AVT-8710. It works, no hassles, no ugly surprises. I don't know about you, but my day is too short to save $100 to worry about something like this. It's a good investment into a sound piece of mind.

[victoriabears]

Echo that. wonderful little box

[orsetto]

The AVT-8710 is a decent TBC if you get a good one, but they are of variable production quality- some are perfect, many have little glitches. Not surprising if you put one right next to a Sima CT-200: they seem to have come from the same factory. Overall the AVT-8710 beats the DataVideo TBC-1000 in regards to CP clearance and image quality, but its not as well-built and doesn't like round the clock hard use: it needs to be powered off every few hours or it overheats and creates signal noise. The biggest problem with the AVT-8710 is availability: forget second hand, eBay or Craigs List- people buy these and keep them. The dealer base for AVT is not huge so you may have to hunt one down. And like the DataVideo, inflation has driven the AVT price WAY over what it used to be: figure a new 8710 will cost $350 vs the DataVideo at $495. If *all* you need is a CP filter for occasional VHS use, both the AVT and DataVideo are a bit rich.

When it comes to dollars and cents, it pays to look at your complete hardware picture and know exactly what you need to work around. In some cases, a newer DVD recorder is a better investment than a TBC. For example, the Pioneer 520 and JVC DRM100 were (and still are) incredibly popular DVD recorders- they are very well built and "solid", so owners are reluctant to admit they are not always the best choice for tape transfers. But the plain fact is they are older designs and their encoding circuits don't cope well with CP, even when filtered. If your goal is to back up a large collection of MV-protected VHS tapes, consider an alternative gameplan. Instead of spending $350-500 on a TBC for your old DVR, you'll get much more dependable and better-quality results by spending that money on a new Pioneer or Phillips DVD recorder (or Panasonic EH55 if you can find one). These newer recorders are much more resistant to CP-related distortion and work just fine with very inexpensive generic "VHS-only" black box filters (the ones widely available for $19.95). I learned this the hard way with my Pioneer 510 and 520: struggled for months with their weak handling of CP'd VHS until I discovered my later 531 and 640 units were much MUCH better for this task. If you can use a DVD recorder made 2006 or later, your work will be easier. And it'll be easier to resell than a TBC or pricey CP filter.

[deuce8pro]

For example, the Pioneer 520 and JVC DRM100 were (and still are) incredibly popular DVD recorders- they are very well built and "solid", so owners are reluctant to admit they are not always the best choice for tape transfers.

I dont understand this comment about the DRM100. I know you didnt have a great experience with it but there are those who have, like myself. But to what you said, any recorder is gonna choke on a macrovision tape.

[orsetto]

I dont understand this comment about the DRM100. I know you didnt have a great experience with it but there are those who have, like myself. But to what you said, any recorder is gonna choke on a macrovision tape.

Its not a question of a bad experience, its a question of better tools for certain jobs. Many pre-2006 recorders of all brands (not just JVC) have a harder time with VHS weirdness than later recorders. If you have perfect non-protected tapes, no problem. But the MV protection system varies wildly from tape to tape depending on title, studio, year of mfr, etc. Even when used with a good CP filter, earlier DVD recorders somehow still pick up a bad vibe from some types of MV-coded tapes and will distort the picture- its unpredictable. Post-2006 recorders will never do this as long as a CP filter is in the loop. So if someone just dropped into this forum from a cloud, has a large VHS collection to transfer, and does not yet own a DVD recorder: buy a newer one, thats all I'm suggesting. If they already have a pre-2006 recorder, and it gives them fits using a normally-competent CP filter, I suggest a newer recorder before hocking your firstborn for a TBC. Later recorders are more suitable for unstable signal sources, I don't see any point to blowing your savings to work around issues of an old recorder. Reserve the old recorder for sources it records perfectly: my Pio 520 and JVC DRM100 are exclusively jacked into my cable box. My refurbished Pio 540, 640, 450 and 531 are used for VHS transfers.

Of course, one could argue (as deuce8pro certainly has) that the older funky recorder has an edge in picture quality. That is highly subjective. To my eye, any slight edge is negated by having to add a powerful TBC and/or other hardware in front of the old recorder: its native picture quality gets tainted. For protected VHS, I prefer a simplified MV filter feeding a current Pioneer to a monster TBC feeding an old JVC. I feel the TBC just kills the distinctive look of the JVC encoder, so I reserve it for pure OTA and cable broadcast. Each of us sees differently: what rings my bell or deuce8pro's may not ring yours.

[jrw32982]

These newer recorders are much more resistant to CP-related distortion and work just fine with very inexpensive generic "VHS-only" black box filters (the ones widely available for $19.95).

Could you elaborate with some examples what filters you had in mind and where you can get them for $20? The best I have seen is the http://www.checkhere22.com/contact.html $35 stabilizer.

[orsetto]

They seem to have disappeared off eBay lately, I used to see tons of them at $15-20 (people started dumping them by the hundreds when PC-based dvd backup became common). As a reference example for $24.95, look at this one: www.qualitekindustries.com/vidstab.html. I am *not* recommending this specific unit, having never used it, but this looks just like the dozens of other generic VHS clarifiers that were marketed for 20 years. There isn't much to them beyond an IC chip and a 9v battery clip, they were easy to mfr. Check electronics surplus and discount dealers, or pick one up from an internet vendor.

[Redicknuff]

GoDV and GoDVD are exactly the same. I have both, and they have the exact same features and functions. The Sima GoDVD CT-200 and the GoDV CT-2000 (CT-2000FC) are identical. If you want, you can still buy one on ebay. I purchased mine from the seller SAFFOTO, and it worked great for transfering all my VHS tapes to DVD, and i use it to make back-up copies of all my DVDs.

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/saffoto

[Anonymous4]

12

[mikel]

A quick sidenote:

"figure a new 8710 will cost $350"

For those who are looking for a deal...I just got one from B&H a month ago for $215.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/276891-REG/AV_Toolbox_AVT_8710_AVT_8710_Multi_St...Time_Base.html


Very happy with it..but just be aware it uses a center negative 15VDC wall wort..

[pepegot1]

Used http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer/, for Macrovision, with no problems.

[Seeker47]

Used http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer/, for Macrovision, with no problems.

You put this up TODAY, and it's a 404 D.O.A. ??

[VegasBud]

The accidentally included comma on the end is what's causing the 404...try this http://www.checkhere22.com/stabilizer/