Problems with CMD-850 PAL to NTSC conversion

[vwy33]

I recently purchased a used ComWorld CMD-850 PAL-NTSC converter on Ebay. I am trying to convert a PAL video tape to NTSC and have connected the unit to the output of a JVC 747 Multistandard VCR. The CMD-850 unit powers on ok and the automatic input scanning seems to select the input signal as type PAL. But when I try to view the output on my NTSC TV or in a Panasonic DMH-E80H DVD recorder, I see an image that has a lot of superimposed lines (like a venetian blind) and there seems to be some periodic traversing of lines as if there are momentary losses of synchronization. The attached photo shows an example of what I see. Can anyone tell me if this a problem with the CMD-850 unit (e.g. defective unit) or with how I have it setup? Are there any solutions that come to mind? Thanks.

vwy33

[hech54]

It's the VCR.
Multistandard VCR's automatically output a quasi signal...a signal that is neither NTSC or PAL....which is confusing the converter.

[vwy33]

Thanks for the comment, but I'm not convinced it's the VCR. The CMD-850 is sold by its
distributor (www.world-import.com) in many different packages that include Multi-system VCRs.
So the unit must work with Multi-system VCRs. And it's not just one company's VCR as there
are packages involving VCRs from Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, JVC, etc. Would there be a
definitive way to test if it's the VCR?

vwy33

[hech54]

Limitations:
This is only a video converter. It cannot play tapes. For example, to play Pal tapes on an American TV you need a Pal VCR and this video converter. Read more about video or DVD conversion here.... or call us toll free at 877-220-8658.
http://www.world-import.com/cmd850.htm

[vwy33]

>>Limitations:
>>This is only a video converter. It cannot play tapes. For example, to play Pal tapes on an American TV you need a Pal VCR and this video converter. Read more about video or DVD conversion here.... or call us toll free at 877-220-8658.
>>http://www.world-import.com/cmd850.htm

Exactly! That is what is being used here (JVC HR-J7474MS + CMD-850 Video converter).
As for World-Import, I have contacted them and am trying to
get assistance. But so far they are requiring a purchase receipt and I can only provide the one
from Ebay/Paypal and not the original. I am still waiting to see if they will be forthcoming with
assistance or helping to identify the problem.
This is one reason I wrote to this forum for assistance.

vwy33

[hech54]

Slow down and think for a second. You own a multi-format VCR...NOT a "converting" VCR. There is a BIG difference.

Look here:
http://www.220-electronics.com/VCR/jvchr_j747.htm
Your machine DOES NOT convert between PAL and NTSC....apparently it is basically a European VCR with an American power plug...and European VCR's do not convert NTSC to PAL...they produce a QUASI signal....I should know...I am an American now living in Europe:

To Playback Overseas Videos On Local American TV, You Need to Buy Multi System Converter VCR such as Aiwa MX-100

....again...I should know because I also own an Aiwa HV MX 100 back home in America. My family uses it now. The MX100 is an awesome converting VCR...very expensive...but awesome.

Without a real PAL VCR...that converter is going to be extremely confused and virtually impossible to accomplish what you want to do.

[vwy33]

<<Slow down and think for a second. You own a multi-format VCR...NOT a "converting" VCR. There is a BIG difference.

<<Your machine DOES NOT convert between PAL and NTSC....apparently it is basically a European VCR with an American power plug...and European VCR's do not convert NTSC to PAL...they produce a QUASI signal....I should know...I am an American now living in Europe:
Quote:
<<To Playback Overseas Videos On Local American TV, You Need to Buy Multi System Converter VCR such as Aiwa MX-100

Ok, I'm trying to slow down. I don't argue that your Aiwa MX-100 "stand-alone" VCR/converter combination unit will do the job. But for those with just a PAL VCR or a multi-format VCR (no converter built in to the VCR), it becomes necessary to purchase a separate stand-alone video converter such as the CMD-850 or the Tenlab TR-11 unit (see e. g. http://www.mindlogic.com/CONV_TNLB.shtml).

Quote:
Tenlab video converters are stand-alone video standards converters (PAL-SECAM-NTSC). They will convert a video signal from one TV system into another. If you have to convert tapes from/to PAL/NTSC (for example), you'd have to connect the TR-10SP between a PAL VCR and an NTSC VCR; or between a VCR or camcorder and a TV of a different system (a PAL VCR or camcorder and an NTSC TV, for example)...

If you check out: http://www.world-import.com/converter-vcr.htm you will see listed a lot of VCR + CMD-850 combinations that are sold as a package to perform conversions. As far as I know, all of the VCR's in these packages are multi-format VCRs (i.e. no different from the JVC HR-J747MS that I have) and none are stand-alone "converting" VCRs like the Aiwa. If they were "converting" VCRs, then one wouldn't need to purchase the CMD-850.

cheers, vwy33

[hech54]

I was in the same boat as you once...pulling my hair out
trying to understand this crap. I was also as defiant as you
are right now. Maybe defiant isn't the right word but...you know
what I mean.

The term "multi-format" is thrown around WAY too often by companies
like that 220electronics place...and provide very misleading information.
End of story.

[FulciLives]

I have the CMD-850 and it is shit. I also have a Tenlabs TR-10SP and it is also shit.

However the problem you are having is not the CMD-850 ... it sucks ... but not THAT badly ... unless of course the unit is faulty ... but I never had your issue with mine nor the Tenlabs unit. Just poor conversion quality.

I'm thinking the VHS VCR is at fault. Are you 100% positive that that VHS VCR is capable of playing back a PAL VHS videotape?

You do know that some VHS VCR units are uncappable of playing PAL so no outside "box" will do PAL to NTSC if you aren't getting a proper PAL signal OUT of the VCR.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I also would not use the "auto" mode on the CMD-850 but pick the "manual" mode ... it will "drift" and try to change modes ... when in "auto" mode ... if the signal gets bad (like a drop-out on the tape).

[cbeltran]

Hi vwy33
just I have now the same problem as you with this converter. So, I would like to know how you fixed the problem.
I tried to convert from a worldwide VCR Samsung sv-5000w , and modify all setup to play only PAL VHS tapes without converting to any other system, and connected this converter, and got the same problem as you.
later I used my pure NTSC VHS to check into my NTSC TV too, and the converter (In tghis case would not be necesary of course) gave me the same problem.
So, I need help to fix theis problem without having to fall the converter to trash.
I hope you or someone in this great forum can help me.
best wishes and thanks a lot beforehand for the help
Cesar (from Peru)

I recently purchased a used ComWorld CMD-850 PAL-NTSC converter on Ebay. I am trying to convert a PAL video tape to NTSC and have connected the unit to the output of a JVC 747 Multistandard VCR. The CMD-850 unit powers on ok and the automatic input scanning seems to select the input signal as type PAL. But when I try to view the output on my NTSC TV or in a Panasonic DMH-E80H DVD recorder, I see an image that has a lot of superimposed lines (like a venetian blind) and there seems to be some periodic traversing of lines as if there are momentary losses of synchronization. The attached photo shows an example of what I see. Can anyone tell me if this a problem with the CMD-850 unit (e.g. defective unit) or with how I have it setup? Are there any solutions that come to mind? Thanks.

vwy33

[turk690]

In my experience, any PAL<>NTSC hardware converter will always be shit, unless it's probably a Snell & Wilcox $10,000 broadcast systems converter box. That said, I have learned to keep all of my PAL & NTSC workflows separate from each other. I mean, if I have a PAL VHS tape, I'm not going to force having it converted to NTSC just to watch it. If I have to send it to NTSC land I simply tell the recipient to get a multisystem VCR; tough if he won't.
Against all these, there are those rare instances when I have to edit and create a DVD from both PAL & NTSC source clips. After deciding the system, say, PAL, then I convert all NTSC clips to it with the Firestore DV standards Converter (www.focusinfo.com). This neat little program is inexpensive and, provided the correct settings are chosen, only dyed-in-the-wool experts can tell a PAL DV AVI clip was once NTSC.
I could use this systems converter program to burn all hell and convert ALL NTSC material I have to PAL (or vice-versa, as I do understand the process gives some kind of high in some people), but what's the point? The need for this high was recognized by such companies as TenLab, Panasonic, Aiwa, & Samsung in the creation of their converting VCRs, all of which (even with the best VHS tapes) provided output quality ranging from the so-so to the downright pits. To the untrained, it's so easy to imagine while watching Fox News live in Europe in PAL that it's being shot in NTSC (oh ok 480p) in the US and surely it can be reproduced at home with something as trustworthy as this ComWorld CMD-850. Another one bites these sluttish companies' dust.
Again, remember: if it's not in the thousand $$ range, any h/w PAL<>NTSC systems converter unit is shit. Anyway, with 1080i/p on us now, it's all either water under the bridge or the could be the next logical skirmish from those with a propensity to keep the subject matter alive, just now it will be "...how can I convert this 1080/50i AVCHD clip to 1080/60i??".

[cbeltran]

but some solution please?? I really spend my dollars, and I dont wish to fall to trash the converter.
some help please
thanks
cesar

[showtaper]

I have the CMD-850 and it is shit. I also have a Tenlabs TR-10SP and it is also shit.

However the problem you are having is not the CMD-850 ... it sucks ... but not THAT badly ... unless of course the unit is faulty ... but I never had your issue with mine nor the Tenlabs unit. Just poor conversion quality.

I'm thinking the VHS VCR is at fault. Are you 100% positive that that VHS VCR is capable of playing back a PAL VHS videotape?

You do know that some VHS VCR units are uncappable of playing PAL so no outside "box" will do PAL to NTSC if you aren't getting a proper PAL signal OUT of the VCR.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I also would not use the "auto" mode on the CMD-850 but pick the "manual" mode ... it will "drift" and try to change modes ... when in "auto" mode ... if the signal gets bad (like a drop-out on the tape).

I use a CMD-950 quite frequently (I have several hundred PAL/SECAM tapes acquired in trades) and while the
output isn't "world-class", it isn't "shit" either. It actually does a very decent job with LOW generation tapes and
a high quality VCR. I'm using a multi-system JVC SVHS deck which puts out a very stable signal from PAL, SECAM
and NTSC tapes. We're definitely not talking hi-def, though.

I happen to work within a few miles of World Import and was able to take some tapes to their shop and find
a combination of deck and converter that gave decent results. They were very helpful. The CMD series is
sensitive to having a video signal that is within spec or other artifacts appear in the output (blooming, color
smear, loss of detail, etc).

The specs for your VCR state that it "records/plays in PAL-MESECAM-NTSC USA 3.58 and 4.43" so it should work
with the CMD-850. If you hook the unit to a NTSC VCR can you get a stable signal out? With a PAL source have
you taken it out of auto mode and tried stepping through the input choices?

Do you know for a fact that the tape is in good condition? Check the audio, is the tape playing at the correct
speed? I have several multi-system and PAL VCRs and received a tape recorded in LP mode that would not
play properly on a couple of my machines, but ok on others.

Check everything individually, if all else fails you may need to have your equipment professionally tested.......

[hech54]

Hi vwy33
just I have now the same problem as you with this converter. So, I would like to know how you fixed the problem.
I tried to convert from a worldwide VCR Samsung sv-5000w

If you actually own this VCR (Samsung sv-5000w)....you don't need an external converter.
The price of $900 shows you that it IS a converting VCR....it does the converting for you.

Samsung's worldwide VIDEO SV-5000W overcomes this problem by digitally converting the signal format of any tape into the format you desire.
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-SV-5000W-Worldwide-VHS-Format/dp/B00004TEUK

[cbeltran]

hi!
thanks a lot for yoru kind replies.
first at all, I connected it with a native NTSC system VCR to a native NTSC TV , and also have the same problem.
So, If maybe some of you have access to go to world import or to call for this problem, I would really very very thanks you. I'm in Peru, so its very impossible for me to contact to world import.
About my Samsumg worldwide VCR, of course this machines transfer the system, but trust me, I spend a lot of money some years ago for this machine, as I've got it new, but convertion quality its not so perfect as I was spected. Its a little dark and with saturated colors.
for that reason I got he CMD 850 converter of second hand at Ebay.com
so, I hope someone can help me. thanks a lot
Cesar

[amckinney]

hi!
thanks a lot for yoru kind replies.
first at all, I connected it with a native NTSC system VCR to a native NTSC TV , and also have the same problem.
So, If maybe some of you have access to go to world import or to call for this problem, I would really very very thanks you. I'm in Peru, so its very impossible for me to contact to world import.
About my Samsumg worldwide VCR, of course this machines transfer the system, but trust me, I spend a lot of money some years ago for this machine, as I've got it new, but convertion quality its not so perfect as I was spected. Its a little dark and with saturated colors.
for that reason I got he CMD 850 converter of second hand at Ebay.com
so, I hope someone can help me. thanks a lot
Cesar

If what you say above is what I think you mean (you're putting the PAL tape into an NTSC VCR and trying to use the converter box to convert the signal to the TV), then you are totally out of luck.

For you to convert this tape with the CMD850, you must have a PAL format VCR (or, alternatively a multi-standard VCR), neither of which were very easy to come by in the US (i.e. you couldn't just walk into Wal-Mart or Circuit City for one). As others have said, you have to be outputting a true, clean PAL signal to the converter box before it will convert. Putting a PAL tape in an NTSC VCR will simply not work, full-stop.

The good news, is however, you can buy a multi-standard/PAL VCR from specialists like World Import, or eBay, starting at about $75 for a monaural one. I already had two multi-system VCR, and lucked into a third one a few weeks ago for $15 at a flea market (looked to have been made for the Japanese market).

As to the quality of the ComWorld/Tenlab converters: I happen own the CMD850 that I bought in a bundle with a hi-fi multi-standard/PAL VCR a few years back from World Import. While not broadcast-quality, it does a much better version than those Aiwa/Samsung all-in-one units, which I have also owned. It does a lot better with on-screen text, for example (no annoying "pulsating lines" on the on-screen text that was the norm with the Aiwa/Samsung conversions).

It does a decent job for the money, provided you're using it with the correct equipment.

[hech54]

I give up.
I've seen SO much WRONG information in threads like these....it is pathetic.
You guys are on your own.

[cbeltran]

If what you say above is what I think you mean (you're putting the PAL tape into an NTSC VCR and trying to use the converter box to convert the signal to the TV), then you are totally out of luck.

For you to convert this tape with the CMD850, you must have a PAL format VCR (or, alternatively a multi-standard VCR), neither of which were very easy to come by in the US (i.e. you couldn't just walk into Wal-Mart or Circuit City for one). As others have said, you have to be outputting a true, clean PAL signal to the converter box before it will convert. Putting a PAL tape in an NTSC VCR will simply not work, full-stop.

thanks for your reply.
well, I played a NTSC VHS tape inside a native only NTSC VCR and using the CMD 850, and directly toa NTSC TV too, but I've got the same problem.
I played a PAL tape in my samsung worldwide vcr, setting as only PAL read, connected to the CMD 850, to convert into NTSC , and then a NTSC TV, and the same problem.
I tried many forms, and the same problem. so, the question is: There's a way to fix this problem, or I have to fall the converter into trash??
Someone here have access to call to world import, and that has an invoice and the same CMD model, and ask for this problem?? I Would be really very thanks!
I hope someone can help me
take care
C.

[turk690]

I'm confused. You played an NTSC tape in an NTSC-only VTR connected to an NTSC TV. Where in this chain is the CMD-850 needed??
Likewise, you played a PAL tape in your Samsung worldwide VCR, then used the CMD-850 to convert to NTSC. Why do you need the CMD-850? Is the Samsung not converting happily enough??
I was once where I think you are: crazily trying to convert all PAL to NTSC & vice-versa, trying to get that feeling of smugness that comes when (you think) you have trumped an artificial limitation and gone outside its limits (such as the PAL vs. NTSC drama would be). But I've since then grown wiser and simply laughed it off after having experienced and recognized the futility of achieving anything higher than so-so quality for what--a few hundred dollars worth of some TenLab converter? I once even owned a Panasonic AWG-3 (or something like that) eons ago and despite its heavy marketing, I couldn't believe the PAL shit it was putting out then with a signal, mind you, a genuine NTSC output from a laserdisc player. In those early 90s you can't get a more rock-solid video signal than that.
So if I were you, if I had a PAL VHS tape (video-sourced, NOT film-sourced) that I really desperately hungrily darndest wanted to make NTSC, for the kind of money you seem willing to spend, here is what I'll do: 1st I'll capture it to my PC HDD as a DV AVI (using a PAL VHS VCR connected tp either a PAL DV camcorder with pass-through or something like a Canopus ADVC-50 capture device). Then I'll load that DV AVI into the Firestore DV Conversion suite and choose settings to convert to NTSC. Then, I'll play that now NTSC DV AVI file in any media player (WMoviemaker, WinDV, etc) that outputs the NTSC stream through FireWire, where either an NTSC DV camcorder or the ADVC-50 is connected. The analogue outputs are connected to your favorite NTSC VCR, which will now record your original material, just now it's in glorious, stable NTSC. For converting film-source PAL VHS tapes, after the capture process, you might want to consider elsewhere on this site a plethora of steps to make that PAL DV AVI file into NTSC.
You might balk at the steps I've outlined above but if you follow them and do it a few times you'll handily be converting PAL to NTSC and v/v with quality comparable to that produced in real-time by the Snell & Wilcox boxes, & minimal spending.
Trust me: if it's not thousands$$, any h/w device, such as your 850 will just produce junk. How much more proof do you want? Stop tearing your hair and go the s/w route I've outlined above. Otherwise let all NTSC material you have stay NTSC & let PAL stay PAL.