NTSC to PAL, PAL to NTSC framerate conversion?

[Baldrick]

Buy a TV that supports both TV Systems(NTSC and PAL) . Or buy a cheap DVD Player that can convert to your TV System.

If you want to convert use an all-in-one tool if you want an easy method,
DIKO
The Filmmachine
AVI2DVD
VSO DivXToDVD(not perfect pal/ntsc to ntsc/pal)

More information,
Framerate conversions guides
Search for PAL to NTSC on our site
Search for NTSC to PAL on our site
Search for PAL to NTSC on WWW
Search for NTSC to PAL on WWW

[kschang]

To be specific... VSODivXToDVD only knows how to throw in extra frames (duplicated frames) in order to convert frame rates. As a result, the audio remains just fine, but the video looks very jerky due to all the duplicated frames added.

[foxbox]

I see.

Does this mean if I download an AVI file which originates as NTSC, then rather than set ConvertXtoDVD to PAL video standard (I live in UK) I should leave it as AUTOMATIC (meaning the burnt disc will be NTSC format)?

Will this result in a better quality end product since there has been no adjustment of frame rate from NTSC > PAL?

[guns1inger]

DivxtoDVD was a simple beast. ConvertXtoDVD is somewhat smarter. Whereas DivxtoDVD added duplicate frames to encode 23.976 to 29.970 (causing jerky output), ConvertXtoDVD encodes this material correctly at 23.976 fps, then applies 2:3 pulldown for playback at 29.970. I believe, although this is untested by me, that it now does the same for NTSC -> PAL conversion. I don't convert formats if it can be avoided, and as I can play DVDs back in their native format, I just leave it as auto.

[julesh]

Will this result in a better quality end product since there has been no adjustment of frame rate from NTSC > PAL?

Not necessarily. It depends on how your DVD player handles the NTSC/PAL conversion. Mine (an Alba DVD114, if I remember the model number correctly) uses exactly the same algorithm ConvertXtoDVD does: it duplicates one frame in every 24, resulting in jerky playback. Some manage much better.

[foxbox]

But essentially if I want the best possible quality from a downloaded AVI file when I convert with ConvertXtoDVD and put it on my player, I should leave the TV Format as 'automatic' - since while I might achieve varying results through different DVD players this way, once the file is instead burned with the framerate converted the end result will never be able to change...?

[Vidvd]

Hi guys,

First of all great board with lot's of info, respect.

Now I've been encoding mostly Xvids (23FPS) to DVD (PAL 25FPS) with VSO's ConvertXtoDVD and was pleased with the Image Quality and sound but I always had a stutter every few seconds. I thaught this was due to the encoding/conversion so it could not get any better untill...
I started to gather info on the frame conversion (pulldown) and noticed this is not the best you can get. The stutter is due to the NTSC=>PAL conversion.
I had my setting to PAL which I thaught was necessary cause my TV/DVD is EURO. Afterwards I found out my TV/DVD can do NTSC so I changed the setting to AUTO.
Now, the image quality is still good, no more stutter, sound is good but I do have a slight tearing which shows as a horizontal line above the center of the screen.
It only happens when there is fast movement going on like head movement or action scenes.
Since I like the IQ, sound and encoding time which is faster then realtime (about an hour for a 2 hour vid) is there anything I can do about this?
Could this have something to do with the 50hz/60hz?
And if it's ConvertXtoDVD could you recommend me another app which will give me the same results except without the stuttering or tearing and about the same encoding time?

I know it's a lot to read but I wanted to be clear on every aspect.

Thx in advance amigos

[SatStorm]

Converting 23.97 to 25 fps is not a big deal. Just speed up your source and no statering at all.

The problem is how to convert 29.97 interlace to 25 fps without issues.

[Vidvd]

Alright m8, thx for the speedy reply but since I'm pretty new at this can you tell me how and with what app I can speed up my source?

Thx

[guns1inger]

Virtualdub (or a variant) can easily change the framerate of the video. Audacity or Goldwave (or similar) is needed to change the audio to keep sync.

Open the video in virtualdubmpeg2 (for example) and click on Video -> Framerate, then click on Change to [ ] frames per second and enter 25. Save the new avi.

However, before doing this, I suggest you save the audio out as uncompressed PCM first, so you can alter it's length as needed.

[Vidvd]

Hmm seems like alot more work. My subs will probably be out of sync too right?

I'll try that method m8 ,thx.

[guns1inger]

Subtitle Workshop should be able to re-time them for you.

And yes, it is a lot of work to get right, and very easy to get wrong. Which is why the opening post in this thread says

Buy a TV that supports both TV Systems(NTSC and PAL) . Or buy a cheap DVD Player that can convert to your TV System.

If you are in a PAL native country then chances are you already have the right kit.

[Vidvd]

I can do PAL/NTSC but I get the small band tearing (bout an inch and on the same position) which seems to be the same as vsync off while playing a game.

Thx for the info lads

[guns1inger]

Never seen that before - sounds like a player issue, and one that I would find serious enough to return the hardware over.

[jagabo]

I can do PAL/NTSC but I get the small band tearing (bout an inch and on the same position) which seems to be the same as vsync off while playing a game.

It sounds like your player is simply throwing out or duplicating scan line pairs to change the frame size. The Philips DVP-642 does this.

[Vidvd]

I have just found the problem. It's my Panasonic TV.

It has this setting which makes the image flicker free and cleaner, it's called "trillingsvrij" in dutch and the translation would be something like "vibration free".
When I turn it off all is good. A pitty though since the setting does improve the image quality and flickering a lot.
So I will still check for a method to convert it to PAL. I dont have the tearing with the PAL vids, only slight stutter but anoying.
I just read that TheFilmMachine is better at it (no stutter) so might look into that app.

Hmm

[Vidvd]

I have googled some more and found an example of the stuttereing although I dont have it this bad. So this is from Xvid (23FPS) to PAL (25FPS) with ConvertXtoDVD (latest version)

http://media.putfile.com/Sample-ntsc2pal

[SCDVD]

When converting from PAL to NTSC or vice versa, it is virtually impossible to avoid some flicker or jerkiness of the video. Depending on which way you are converting, one out of six frames is added or removed. This causes motion or pans to show a jerky effect. Sometimes there is no choice but to convert because there is no other source for the video. But it is best if possible to record PAL from a PAL source and NTSC from an NTSC source.

[1980sumthin]

What if you live in a NTSC region. Is a PAL source burned onto DVD likely to show properly on the Television or even work in the DVD Player?

I'm new at this.

I'm very interested to learn about converting 25 fps to an NTSC format.

[jagabo]

What if you live in a NTSC region. Is a PAL source burned onto DVD likely to show properly on the Television or even work in the DVD Player?

In my experience most USA players do not play PAL material. If you want to play PAL discs you have to seek out a player that supports PAL->NTSC conversion. You usually also need a region free player because most PAL sources will not be region 1.

[JoeBolden]

In my experience most USA players do not play PAL material. If you want to play PAL discs you have to seek out a player that supports PAL->NTSC conversion. You usually also need a region free player because most PAL sources will not be region 1.

That use to be the case but now you can find many DVD players that will play both NTSC & PAL starting at about $25 and up. Search your player before buying on DVD Players link on left side of the page. bought a Coby for $25 that plays my PAL burned DVD's. It doesn't have the features that my Sony Home theater player has. So I just use the Coby for my downloaded PAL format ones. Again with downloaded movie files it's easy to make them region free before burning. Some players even have hacks that will make them region free.

[jagabo]

most USA players do not play PAL

...you can find many DVD players that will play both NTSC & PAL

These two statements are not contradictory.

[JoeBolden]

most USA players do not play PAL

...you can find many DVD players that will play both NTSC & PAL

These two statements are not contradictory.

I agree. I just wanted to point out that there are more of the dual NTSC/PAL players available than there used to be a few years ago. The prices are cheap enough and it can be much easier to buy one of those players than spend the time needed to convert the videos.

[jerappelle]

There are several DVD players that can play PAL dvds on NTSC machines. I would like to buy a DVR that accepts input signal, so I can input a PAL signal (from example from a VCR) and output that to NTSC. Basically, I would get a PAL-NTSC converter on top of my DVD recorder. I have seen a few DVRs that do that, like the LiteOn 5005, but they all seem now to have been disconnected. The DVR would also need to be easily modifiable to remove macrovision protection. Does anybody have any experience with this problem and can suggest a cheap DVR machine? (I don't want to spend $3-400 on multisystem machines). I am interested in a standalone hardware solution like a DVR, not in using a computer with a videocapture card to do the conversion.
I also tried a small portable DVD player that has input and output, but unfortunately it looks like the manufactured disabled the ability to throughput the signal (I can only input or output, with conversion, but cannot do both).

Any help? Thank you all.