Confused about the usage of word "lie" in English

[walter4h]

Hello everybody:
I am somewhat confused about the usage of the word to "lie" in the meaning of - "to assume or maintain a prostrate or recumbent position" ( there are also other meanings in the dictionary, but it is clear what I am talking about).
According to the dictionary, the past form is "lay", (lain - pp, lying - gerund)
In a word "lie" (deliberate falsehood), both past and pp are "lied", and a gerund - "lying"
Now imagine I want to say to someone - "when you go to a psychoanalyst, make sure you ask him how much it would cost before you [lie / lay] down on that couch"
Which form should be used? (in this case I want it in the present tense)
And then he tells me - "before I [lied / lay] down on the couch, I asked him how much it would cost".
Which form should be used in this case if the past tense is desired?

(pardon if this is too simple and obvious for most of you, but I am a technical guy, I was putting in just enough effort into English classes to pass)
Thx: walter

[gadgetguy]

"when you go to a psychoanalyst, make sure you ask him how much it would cost before you lay down on that couch"

"before I laid down on the couch, I asked him how much it would cost".

These are the words I would use. "lie down" as a combination is acceptable as is "lied down".

Disclaimer: I'm not a linguist or grammarian. This is just what I was taught.

[walter4h]

Thanks, Gadgetguy:
I am not a linguist either, but I could certainly use your help.
walter

[thecoalman]

Ditto on what gadgetguy posted. Never really thought about it but I don't think I've ever use the word "lie" for expressing laying down.

[lordsmurf]

Check the Associated Press (AP) style book.

"Lay" is an action word, requiring a direct object. (i.e. Now I lay me down to sleep.)
"Laid" is past tense and past participle.
"Laying" is present participle (i.e., am laying, are laying)

"Lie" is a state of reclining in reference to a horizontal plane.
It does not require a direct object.
"Lay" is past tense.
"Lain" is past participle. (i.e., was lain, had been lain)

("Lie" also refers to untrue statements, and is both noun and verb.)

Examples:

I lay the book on the table.
The man tried to lay blame on me.
I will lay myself down on the bed (awkward wordy speech, but correct, as you make yourself the direct object.)

WRONG: He lays on the beach.
WRONG: I will lay down.
WRONG: I will lie down the book.

RIGHT: He lies on the beach.
RIGHT: I will lie down.


-- Past tense below: --

RIGHT: I laid the book on the table.
RIGHT: He laid blame on her.

RIGHT: He lay on the beach all day.
RIGHT: He has lain on the beach all day.
RIGHT: I lay down earlier today.
RIGHT: I have lain down today.

That's from the 1996 edition, page 116. It hasn't changed. I have the 2006 or 2007 edition at work.

[lordsmurf]

"When you go to a psychoanalyst, make sure you ask him how much it would cost before you LAY down on that couch."
It is an action with a direct object, and is future/present tense.

"Before I LAY down on the couch -- I asked him how much it would cost. "
That sentence makes it out as an action that was done sequentially, though verbalized out of order. It already happened. You first asked him the cost, then got on the couch.

Sometimes the best way to deal with these words is to not use them.
Even knowing the rules, it's easy to get this crap wrong (that includes teachers and educators).

"I got on the couch."
"I crawled onto the couch."
"I plopped down onto the couch."

"Before I found myself flat on my back, staring at the ceiling, and having my mind probed and dissected by the psychoanalyst, I decided to ask the costs of such an operation."

LAY and LIE are boring words. Right up there next to BE and IS.

[walter4h]

Thanks, guys:
I agree, that not using a word, just like avoiding an untoward situation, is often a good solution. But somehow I did not think much about it, till I stumbled over it.
Anyway, with regards to language, I was doing just enough to pass.
Thanks again:
walter