Disk Finalize

[arobertson1]

One of the most common problems I come across is disk finalization (and the time I waste trying to explain it to people). The question I have to ask is why is there no software that can close the disks?

Making a few assumptions (yes - I know), I cannot see why this is not possible:

1) All writers can close the disks when burning a DVD.
2) These disks must be written in a standard way for the reader to work. i.e. they are all burned the same way.
3) A disk can be finalized later after it has been removed / re-inserted by the native recorder.

So why can I not close a disk on my PC that has been left open? I know about DVD decryptor and it does work for -RW disks but it won't do -R disks for some reason. The other option is ISO Buster and CD Roller but they only extract the information sssssllllllloooooooowwwwwwlllllllyyyyy.

Surely a simple close disk option in a piece of software is not too hard?

More to the point - does anyone know of a DVD reader / writer that overides the standards and will actually read these disks by ignoring the fact that the lead out is missing, which is effectively the finalization process? i.e. It burns from the inside of the disk to the outside, but instead of reading from the outside to the inside (the standard) why not read from the inside to the outside (non standard). After all there will always be a lead in on a disk. It could then effectively ignore the missing lead out. Problem solved (okay apart from multi-session disks, but I am talking about DVD video not data).

[orsetto]

Because for whatever misbegotten reason, every damn standalone recorder brand has its own specific way of writing the video to DVD-R temporarily, and those "temp" files usually don't become readable on standardized hardware until the original recorder itself finalizes the DVD. A random PC or other recorder cannot finalize proprietary DVD-R files they can't read in the first place. If you hold the recorder instruction manuals upside down and read them backwards by moonlight, they sort of imply this has something to do with digital rights management although they don't come right out and say it clearly.

[samijubal]

DVD recorder manufacterers probably have no interest in making recorders that the discs can be finalized on other brand recorders and may even go out of their way to make sure they can't be. If your recorder dies and you have unfinalized discs they want you to buy another of their recorders, not another brand. It's not in their best interest to make unfinalized discs compatible with other recorders.

I just bought a Toshiba D-R410 a week ago, it has something they call "make recording compatible" that's supposed to make discs recorded on other recorders work in the Toshiba. I have no idea if it works or not since I only use Toshiba recorders.

[SCDVD]

It may be too much to hope for in this case but occasionally a manufacture takes advantage of a fragmented product compatibility issue and releases a product that "solves" the problem. An example that comes to mind is the SureThing disc label maker company. All of the other label maker companies had their own proprietary labels and only those labels would work with their software. They did this to force people to buy their label refills. But SureThing came along and offered a "universal" label kit. Their software would print on most other label brands. Since SureThing was a relatively late comer in the disc label maker market, this was a key product feature that enabled their success.

(This isn't a plug for disc labels. It is just an example of a company's marketing strategy. I strongly recommend that no one use disc labels. There are a number of problems associated with their use.)

[LCSHG]

Simijubal

Quote
“I just bought a Toshiba D-R410 a week ago, it has something they call "make recording compatible" that's supposed to make discs recorded on other recorders work in the Toshiba. I have no idea if it works or not since I only use Toshiba recorders’
------------------------------------------

I have eleven liteon, ,ilo, Accuryan units six with HDD. ANY disk recorded in one will play un-finalized and can be finalized in any’ I realize they are all liteon units. A Toshiba and Pioneer would have nothing to do with a un-finalized disk from these units

But
A disk burned with the liteon units can be placed in a Cyberhome !600 or 1200 and brings up a message that the disk was not made in a Cyberhome and asks if I want to make it compatible a yes answer will do that and change the thumb nails and format and finalize them
They can be played in any unit including the liteon inits
However if a disk is burned in the Cyberhome I have not found any unit that will deal with them including the liteon’s

That Toshiba may very well do as the Cyberhome’s

[arobertson1]

"A disk burned with the liteon units can be placed in a Cyberhome !600 or 1200 and brings up a message that the disk was not made in a Cyberhome and asks if I want to make it compatible a yes answer will do that and change the thumb nails and format and finalize them
They can be played in any unit including the liteon inits"

************************************

Very interesting. I can certainly take a DVD -RW out of my Liteon and finalize it on my PC with DVD decryptor (Much quicker than doing it on the Liteon). What disks are you using with the Cyberhome? More to the point have you tried other disks burned using other DVD recorders other than Liteon? I would be keen to know if your Cyberhome can do this - in fact I can feel my wallet already getting twitchy to buy one!

[LCSHG]

I don’t use –RW disks, the ilo RhD94 do not burn a –disk.
A +RW does not require to be finalized and is not
I have not found a unit that will accept a +RW refuse to play it

Finalize takes less than 10 min and I don’t have to be at the unit
BUT Some units DO NOT Like +RW disks

Disks used - [Primarily]
Verbatim +RW, + and –R
Ridata +R and –R

Have used
Maxell +RW
Memorex +R and –R
CMC AND some others

I have not felt that disks used would be a problem

I have not tried this with disks burned in other units

If it was me and I had to use a PC to finalize I would first burn something I didn’t care about and try it
You might try a +RW disk if you can
I’m a firm believer in Murphy’s Law

[orsetto]

I just bought a Toshiba D-R410 a week ago, it has something they call "make recording compatible" that's supposed to make discs recorded on other recorders work in the Toshiba. I have no idea if it works or not since I only use Toshiba recorders.

It would be interesting to find out if this works: maybe you could borrow an unfinalized disc from someone else and give it a try? I was under the impression from other members posts that some recorder brands (RCA, Polaroid) use the expression "make compatible" instead of "finalize" because they think that makes more sense to consumers. But in reality "make compatible" on those units merely finalizes their own discs. If the new Toshibas actually do have some sort of universal finalizing feature, they would be a valuable tool for those with failing older machines and stacks of unfinalized discs. Please let us know if you get a chance to confirm this.

[samijubal]

Anyone truly interested in finding out if it works can send me a disc and I'll try it. My sister is the only person I know that uses a DVD recorder. When her Samsuck died, I cringed when she told me what she bought after the fact, she called and asked what to buy and I told her Toshiba, that's what she has.

Through the end of the month anyone can go to Cowboom.com and register and get $10 off their first auction. I got the Toshiba for $20 after the $10 off. They come up there all day. Cowboom is a division of Dealtree, I've bought a bunch of stuff from them on ebay. The one time something didn't work they just refunded the entire purchase amount, shipping included.

[LCSHG]

Orsetto

Your Quote
“I was under the impression from other members posts that some recorder brands (RCA, Polaroid) use the expression "make compatible" instead of "finalize" because they think that makes more sense to consumers. But in reality "make compatible" on those units merely finalizes their own discs.”
---------------------------------------------

Did you read my first post?

Quote
“A disk burned with the liteon units can be placed in a Cyberhome !600 or 1200 and brings up a message that the disk was not made in a Cyberhome and asks if I want to make it compatible a yes answer will do that and change the thumb nails and format and finalize them
They can be played in any unit including the liteon inits
However if a disk is burned in the Cyberhome I have not found any unit that will deal with them including the liteon’s “
-----------------------------------------------


The Cyberhome [ilo R05[ does finalize its own recordings. It will Make compatible and finalize a number of other units including a liteon but not all.
AS I said the Toshiba may very well finalize others but I doubt all others

I don’t use the Cyberhome or or ilo R05 [a Cyberhome] very often, only in a RV and experiments It is not a unit I would recommend. The longevity is poor and repair is mostly a dead issue but when working they play anything well

[orsetto]

Did you read my first post?

Sure did!

My reply to samijubal was based on the intriguing idea he presented of a "name" recorder being able to finalize discs from other makes. Your Cyberhome experience, while certainly interesting and valuable, is less startling because Cyberhome is part of a consortium that shares many parts and burners with recorders of other brands- it is not completely unexpected that the Cyberhome would have more extensive finalizing ability. It is, however, quite a novelty act if Toshiba (or Sony or Panasonic etc) were to start doing this. I certainly didn't mean to diminish your Cyberhome report, I just got distracted by samijubal's info. So to repeat, for anyone like me who may have missed the earlier point you were making:

Cyberhome is available here and now with a "universal" finalizing feature that can rescue discs of other make recorders-very cool. Toshiba may or may not have begun offering this feature- it will be confirmed by other members shortly.

[samijubal]

I may be mistaking but I think Cyberhome is a +R/RW recorder. If that's true, it wouldn't be as useful as the Toshiba which is a -R/RW and +R/RW recorder. Although it doesn't say it anywhere in the specs, it will also play RAM. I haven't tried recording to RAM. I do have RAM discs from other recorders that play in the Toshiba. That doesn't help with the finalize question.

[wabjxo]

My Philips 3575 manual says this about "Make Recording Compatible":

Use this feature to make the unfinalized +VR mode discs
recorded on other unit recordable on this unit. When you
make an additional recording on this unit with “Make
Recording Compatible” set to “ON”, the title list is
automatically converted to our style.

[samijubal]

Not much use. Who uses +VR mode?

[wabjxo]

+VR is a Philips Standard compatible with DVD-Video mode when finalized. VR-Mode is a variation of the DVD-Video Standard.

More info here (and, yes, it records on DVD-R/RW discs as well).

[samijubal]

It's also the most unrelaible format. Again, who uses it? If people have unfinalized discs they are -R/RWs or +Rs. Since +RW doesn't need finalized anyway, it's a useless feature.

[arobertson1]

The quest is set - to find the dvd recorder which can make other DVD disks "compatible" which were not natively burned by it!

[samijubal]

After looking at the Toshiba manual more closely, it looks like that compatible function is for +R/RW discs only. It doesn't say -R/RW. Maybe it will work with some and not all -R/RW discs and that's why it's not listed in the manual, or maybe it doesn't work with - discs at all. It doesn't list RAM anywhere either but it definitely plays them.

I wish I had some unfinalized discs from another recorder to try it, I'm curious myself. I have discs from other recorders but none unfinalized. I learned long ago not to leave discs unfinalized.

[LCSHG]

[qrsetto] --- [samijubal]

My question was only to draw attention that other than original units might finalize a disk

It is correct that the Cyberhome is specified a +R/RW Burning unit .
The issue of a + or - disk should be considered
I had viewed a number of posts That indicated that a disk had to be finalized in the unit burned. This was not correct

The Cyberhome and ilo 05 units are the same.
Some liteon and ilo 04 units are the same in basic
Neither the Liteon/ilo inits share drives, chipsets, etc. with a Cyberhome.


To Make Compatible and Finalize would seem miss-leading.

I was not happy with the liteon/ilo thumbnails but was with the Cyberhome and experimented, using them,
If a disk was burned in the Cyberhome it would simply finalize them when I wanted to
If a diskwas burned in a liteon/ilo [only with a +R/RW disk] AND NOT FINALIZED.
Than placed in a Cyberhome it did make it compatible [ It did Change the format and file structure ------ Than automatically Finalized it
The two are not the same
The files were no longer in a VOB format but some property one.
I did not like this and did not use this for more than some 10 disks but the feature might be used at times.
I disk burned in a Cyberhome and un-finalized could not be used in the liteon/ilo

Someone doing this or similar process should be aware of this

All this was done with the units mentioned but over a year ago a post indicated that a different unit did finalize a disk burned in his Panasonic but had forgotten to mention which one and I didn’t follow up.

I have used many different +R and –R disk, and see no difference in space or quality.
I use +RW only There is an issue over the proper use of them and cannot speak to the
-RW

[samijubal]

I've had some time to play around with the R410. It will not record to or finalize -RW discs with content on them recorded with another Toshiba recorder. It will not record -RW discs formatted on another Toshiba recorder.

This makes me wonder if the recorder is actually made by Toshiba. The menus look a lot like the menus on the Philips DVD player I have. I don't know if Philips makes their DVD players or not. Most of their VCRs from the mid '90s on were Funai, along with their TV/VCRs and DVD/VCRs. I don't think Funai recorders have ever done RAM but I'm not sure on that one. I've opened the Toshiba but can find nothing to indicate manufacterer. The only IC visible is Panasonic, there are no other distinguishing markings on anything.

I'll try and remember to leave the next -R disc I do unfinalized and see what happens with it. I have +R discs but don't have a + recorder.

[LCSHG]

Simijubal

Quote
“It will not record -RW discs formatted on another Toshiba recorder.”
---------------------------------------


Interesting

I feel the Toshiba is a good unit but I had found them to be selective in acceptance of
disks; Many Toshiba units [Older] would not have much to do with a +Rand nothing to to do with a +RW


The ilo units will burn Only +R/RW disks. The lite on units including a 5104 and Accurian 3223 will burn any + or – Disk.
A disk can be {Erased/Formatted} in any Unit and if a valid disk for a unit will be accepted as a new valid disk.
Also if a disk is partially used the remaining free space can be used by the other liteon’s [or clones]

[samijubal]

I don't think the recorder is actually made by Toshiba. That's why the discs from other Toshiba recorders don't work. Looking at the post on here for the new Magnavox, the insides and remote are virtually identical except for the HDD and a few more keys on the Magnavox remote. I'll bet it's a Funai, cheap junk. That would explain why the menus look like the Philips player I have, it's probably Funai, and why the PQ isn't like the other Toshibas I have. My other Toshibas what goes in comes out, the recorded picture is a clone of the source, the new one the brightness/contrast/colors don't match the source. Oh well, at least I only paid $20 for it.

[samijubal]

I tried an unfinalized -R disc from a 2 year old Toshiba recorder in the R410 today, it wouldn't read it. No surprise.

[pannayar]

After looking at the Toshiba manual more closely, it looks like that compatible function is for +R/RW discs only. It doesn't say -R/RW. Maybe it will work with some and not all -R/RW discs and that's why it's not listed in the manual, or maybe it doesn't work with - discs at all. It doesn't list RAM anywhere either but it definitely plays them.

I wish I had some unfinalized discs from another recorder to try it, I'm curious myself. I have discs from other recorders but none unfinalized. I learned long ago not to leave discs unfinalized.

I had the DR410 a couple of weeks back... I used a disc recorded by another identical DR410, I lost the original recording and ended up with only the new one.. dont remember what/whether the "compatible" setting was set to on/off. So even the same brand/model is considered "another unit".

ps: The DR410 evetually went back to the store for its stupid timer programming annoyance, where if you manually stop a scheduled recording, it does not cancel it from its queue.

[samijubal]

The R410 I'm sure is a Funai, ultra cheap crap. I don't use it, I just wanted to see if the new Toshibas were anything like the older ones, definitely not.

[pannayar]

Btw, I tried the Philips 3576 (160G disk) and the menu/navigation/on screen messages etc (even things mentioned in the manual) is exactly simlar to the DR410.

Fwiw, there are so many annoying things with the panasonic DMR-EA18 that I currently have, but it was the Toshiba that eventually got returned primarily due that timer nonsense.

[samijubal]

The Philips and the Toshiba are both Funai recorders, that's why the menus, etc. are the same. I was hoping the PQ of the new Toshiba would be up to par with their older recorders actually made by Toshiba, I didn't know until after I got it that it was a Funai, it definitely isn't.

[pannayar]

really? symphonic, sylvania, emerson - arent these the Funais? Toshiba too??

[samijubal]

Yes, all those and some others, Philips, Magnavox, SV, I'm sure there are more too are Funai, at least the DVD recorders. Toshiba used to make their own DVD recorders, obviously not anymore.