Are 300.00 no name hdtvs worth the money?

[yoda313]

I'm starting to see 19" hdtv's for around 300.00 or at 250.00 in the sales now. However these ads are for brands like ELEMENT or some other off the wall knock off. Some do seem to have built in tuners which would make it a steal.

However, would any of these models likely have hdmi ports? Also, are these really too cheap to be worth it?

I'm not going to buy one right away. I'm thinking possibly the end of the year I could look into one as a Christmas present to myself.

I would only need 720p or 1080i for my first hdtv set - 1080p is overkill for me right now. I don't have hd cable or satellite so I'd be using standard def for that or simply ota material for sports and the occatisional movie.

Also - a side question. Do they make 1080i upconverting dvd players for under a 100.00 nowadays? I think I have seen them. And also - if I were to get one would it be worth getting high def cables for my Nintendo Wii? I mean the max it does is 480p so it seems like a waist.

Again I'm not "really" in the market just yet. But at these prices its getting awfully tempting. And these are about the price of my Nintendo Wii - yes I did buy it at market price last fall and not at inflated ebay prices.

So any thoughts on these entry market tvs would be appreciated. And these are apparently real hdtvs - not edtvs at 480p, seems like those have been phased out thankfully.

[Joe The Dude]

Are you able to see the cheapies in person, or are they only sold online?

When it comes to the Wii, the diffrence between 480i and 480p will be easily
seen when it comes to small details and ingame text; ie: 480p will be sharper.

But the question is wether or not such an improvement is worth the cost of
the HD Cables.

Another thing to be aware of is that if the HDTV in question are not Tubes, (but instead are TFT, LCD or Plasma,) then any content being sent to the HTTV in a resoloution other than it's reccomended resolution will look bad unless it has Really good downsampler/upsampler hardware built in.
I kinda doubt that a cheapie HDTV will be able to upsample or downsample all that well.

Anywho, if you can buy the HDTV Cable for the Wii at a store with a good return policy, you can always take it with you and test out your Wii on the HDTVs in the store.

It also might be wise to also bring a 12 foot electrical extention cord, and a single socket surge protector (they are normally sold in the laptop/notebook accessories section of an electronics store).

[yoda313]

Thanks Joe. I assume these are in store models - they are on the ads for Circuit City and Bestbuy.

I guess the Wii question will wait for when I actually buy one. Like I said this is a few months away at the earliest.

They also seem to be lcd models. Any issues on super cheap lcds??

[Joe The Dude]

From what reading I've done on LCD and TFT technology last year, there's several specs to keep an eye on: Contrast Ratio, Black Level, viewing angle, and something else i can't seem to recall.
It's been a while since i did the research ~ hopefully another board member in the know can clue us in.

[lordsmurf]

Pretty much ... black level, brightness controls, view angle, color saturation (especially reds).

19" widescreen is horribly small. That's small than my very first tv set (21"). It's smaller than my 20" EDTV. That's the sucker punch with WS, it's all 1/3rd smaller in size than SDTV was.

I really don't play video games unless it's on my 27" SDTV, and even then, I'm not bothering until I can afford the 50-60" HDTV I'd like to have. Especially new games, where the crap is so small on screen. I can see good, but I'd like to keep it that way too!

[yoda313]

1/3 smaller?????? damn!

I knew there was a downsize as far as the vertical height compared to a sd tv but that much?!?!?!

Ouch..... I might wait until I plan on investing on a 25" or higher if they're that dinky.....

[lordsmurf]

If you want a good video game television, consider a JVC tube SDTV, either 27" or 32". It's a lovely tube, nice high res (not HD, but still great res), virtually zero geometry errors (a big problem with modern tubes), lots of inputs and picture modes. Yes, it's big and heavy, but they only run $300 or so.

Just depends on what you want and have room for.

[zzyzzx]

No. The cheaper brands don't display SDTV signals any good, and often have other problems. Maybe in a few years they might be OK.

[Doramius]

I bought a 30" Tube just over 5 years ago and it's still running great. I paid about $300 for it. Not SDTV or HDTV, or anything really new. But I'll be damned if I'm going to pay more than $500-$600 for a new TV that has the 4:3 equivalent ratio in the newer style of TVs.

This means I won't be purchasing a newer TV for probably another 10 years. My PC already has the High end stuff on it. I can watch HDTV on it. Smaller screen, but I'm only 2' away from it anyway.

[FulciLives]

I wouldn't buy a HDTV in today's market place unless it was capable of 1080p with a resolution of 1920x1080 so I have a feeling that pretty much rules out any $300 HDTV.

I just looked at BEST BUY and the cheapest LCD they have that is 1080p with a resolution of 1920x1080 is a 42" Westinghouse model that goes for $1,099.99 US Dollars. The next cheapest was a 32" Sharp AQUOS model that goes for $1,259.99 US Dollars. Note that both were on sale at the time that I looked (which was just now).

I also looked at CIRCUIT CITY and the cheapest LCD they have that is 1080p with a resolution of 1920x1080 is a 32" Sharp AQUOS model that goes for $1,199.99 US Dollars (it was also on sale). Please note that the model numbers were different for the Sharp at BEST BUY and CIRCUIT CITY or different models for real or the same thing but different model number for different stores?

Please note I only looked at flat panel LCD HDTVs while looking for the "cheapest" 1080p 1920x1080 HDTV.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Doramius]

I'd probably get a 42" myself because the size on a 16:9 ration would match my tube TV's size. But you're not going to find a 42" HDTV for <$600.

[Joe The Dude]

After having read your comments on the 4:3 height vs 16:9 height issue, I remebered that I did the math a while back to see what widscreen TV would compare in height to my 4:3 Tube TV.

Basicly, it would take a 33 inch (Diagonal) 16:9 TV to equal the same height as my 27 inch (Diagonal) 4:3 Tube TV.

Another thing that's really bugged me about LCDs is the viewing angle when compared to a CRT, but that's another topic for another time.

[lordsmurf]

You should also get a LCD that does 14:10 and/or 15:10 display mode (with image cropping), not just 16:9 and 4:3 with bars. You can fill the screen with a 4:3 image this way, and it won't look too distorted.

[Doramius]

Black bars never bothered me. I don't see how it bothers some. My TV is large enough to where a widescreen show is quite large and clear for the distance I am away from it. It would be great to have a larger TV, but again, cost is a major hindrance.

[yoda313]

I think I'll wait and see what the day after thanksgiving black friday ads bring. Who knows maybe they'll be a 30 some inch lcd for around 300.00 with hdmi and I may just go through the insanity of waiting in line for hours and hours.... again

Hey I did it for my Nintendo Wii and my Emachine so anything is possible

[Doramius]

You did it for an eMachine?

Dude, we really need to get you educated on computer technology. :P

[yoda313]

Uh doramius - weren't you here on the forum that year???? besides its still hanging in there beautifully with no major hickups at all.

Also you should know by now I have an HP Vista pc right????

[yoda313]

well I did a little more "serious" browsing at bestbuy this evening. just doing some more looking really but a little more indepth. I think I can tell 26" or so will be a decent size to consider. I looked at a westinghouse (i believe it was westinghouse) 26" and it was for around 500.00. It was 1080i with hdmi and built in tuner. I checked it out from an extreme angle and the lcd looked visible and not faded at a far angle from the center which is impressive. I don't believe this model had a builtin dvd player but a lot of them are starting to. I think it also had the pc hook and some now have usb hook ups as well.

I noticed that some of have coaxial and some have fiber optic outputs. Do all hdtvs that have internal tuners have digital audio outputs? Or are they starting to just have hdmi? The reason I ask is if I do go in this direction my digital stereo is non hdmi but it does have one fiber optic and one coax input for digital connection.

I was really impressed with the quality of that westinghouse. Does bestbuy let you test your own discs on display models? Would they let you hook up one of their players to it and test it out?

Also - how much difference is there between 720p and 1080i really? If I were to seriosuly consider an hdtv later this year would paying more for 1080i make sense or is 720p enough for your first hdtv?

Remember I'm still in the "getting my feet wet" stage here. This may be a thanksgiving "black friday" purchase or a christmas season purchase. I may not even do it this year. But I'm gathering my facts in first hand experience. Thanks.

[lordsmurf]

This may be a thanksgiving "black friday" purchase or a christmas season purchase. I may not even do it this year. But I'm gathering my facts in first hand experience. Thanks.

I'm looking at a Black Friday 2008 purchase. Doing the slow research and slow money saving. I'm looking to get a really nice 50" or larger LCD (maybe plasma). I've quite fond of my current Sharp EDTV LCD, so I'm giving those big Sharps a good look.

[FulciLives]

I am happy with my 51" CRT Rear Projection HDTV but it is 1080i ... does not support 1080p. However I bought it just before the 1080p "craze" started.

If I were to buy a new HDTV today I would definitely go with the 52" Sharp AQUOS LCD that does 1080p.

Damn expensive but the picture is SO nice. I saw it at BEST BUY but I think CIRCUIT CITY also carries it.

Sharp also has a 46" AQUOS LCD that does 1080p and it is a bit cheaper than the 52" model.

I have also seen some PLASMA HDTV's at 1080p and that could work as well but then you are talking a bit more money for the PLASMA compared to the LCD.

I would definitely go LCD or PLASMA before anything else like LCD Rear Projection or DLP etc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[budz]

well I did a little more "serious" browsing at bestbuy this evening. just doing some more looking really but a little more indepth. I think I can tell 26" or so will be a decent size to consider. I looked at a westinghouse (i believe it was westinghouse) 26" and it was for around 500.00. It was 1080i with hdmi and built in tuner. I checked it out from an extreme angle and the lcd looked visible and not faded at a far angle from the center which is impressive. I don't believe this model had a builtin dvd player but a lot of them are starting to. I think it also had the pc hook and some now have usb hook ups as well.

I noticed that some of have coaxial and some have fiber optic outputs. Do all hdtvs that have internal tuners have digital audio outputs? Or are they starting to just have hdmi? The reason I ask is if I do go in this direction my digital stereo is non hdmi but it does have one fiber optic and one coax input for digital connection.

I was really impressed with the quality of that westinghouse. Does bestbuy let you test your own discs on display models? Would they let you hook up one of their players to it and test it out?

Also - how much difference is there between 720p and 1080i really? If I were to seriosuly consider an hdtv later this year would paying more for 1080i make sense or is 720p enough for your first hdtv?

Remember I'm still in the "getting my feet wet" stage here. This may be a thanksgiving "black friday" purchase or a christmas season purchase. I may not even do it this year. But I'm gathering my facts in first hand experience. Thanks.

Hey! yoda313 When I was shopping around for a 32 inch LCD at Best Buy a few months ago I asked the customer service guy what brands were the most returned for defects/unsatisfactory viewing. He told me Westinghouse sets were the most returned out of all the brands that they sell. I questioned this customer service guy to see if he knew his stuff. I asked about the clouding issues with the SONY XBR LCD sets. He answered me correctly by telling me SONY did have defects with the XBR LCD sets that were manufactured last summer. And that Sony did fix the problem so the sets manufactured from OCT. 2006 were fine with no clouding. I was impressed that he was aware of that situation.

I'm waiting as well to see what Black Friday 2007 has to offer. My cousin just bought a 50 inch Panasonic Plasma for $1650.00 from Costco. It's nice but when I was browsing at a local store that sells LCD & PLASMA sets I noticed the Plasma sets radiated a lot of heat compared to a LCD. I dunno maybe it was my imagination but my Panasonic 32 inch doesn't have heat like that.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

It comes down to this: You get what you pay for.

[yoda313]

I've actually reconsidered what I want. I think I'm actually going to go the route of a widescreen monitor. I think that will be cheaper and more in line with what I will actually use.

I don't think I'm ready to commit several hundred dollars yet to a full blown hdtv. But I think a widescreen monitor will do nicely. I plan to use it on my VISTA pc. I do have an hdtv capture card which I would need to move to the vista pc. I'll need to research to see if they have vista drivers for my fusion card or not.

My new nvidia 8400 has hdcp capability so I could even look for a set that has encryption enabled for the possible bluray/hddvd drive in the future. That would be a long shot but you never know.

So I'm thinking of either a 15" or 17" widescreen. What ms rating is good for gaming? I think 8ms is common on the cheaper lcd screens. Is 5ms considered middle of the road?

What about connections? Are there lcds with inputs to use a regular screen for video games and such? How about resolution? Is 720p more common in pc monitors than 1080i? Is i even relevant in the computer world?

[FulciLives]

Well based on what you just said ... take a look at the Gateway FPD2485W model LCD monitor. This is a 1080p 24" WS LCD monitor with DCDi by Faroudja video processing and yes it is HDCP compliant. It has DVI-D input for the computer as well as component inputs and S-Video inputs etc.

A very nice computer monitor that can also double as a TV.

Here is the link to BEST BUY which has it for $679.99 US Dollars: CLICK HERE

Not cheap but very nice!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[yoda313]

nearly 700???? Damn.... thanks fulci but at that price I'd rather buy a full blown hdtv.

Actually I saw some around 200.00 that look good. They are 720p on a few and are hdcp - at least one was.

So is 5ms adequate for gaming like halo2 and such?

And it looks like my fusion card does have vista drivers. If I did go ahead and do this later I could just buy the cheapest mpeg capture device to swap out of my xp machine and swap.


EDIT - this hp looks good:

http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/hp-vp17/4505-3174_7-32399890.html?ar=o&tag=pdtl-list

HP VP17

200.00


I'll have to keep this in mind. How important is it to have true 16:9 ratio for acheiving good widescreen in movies?

[Heywould3]

Yoda.

FYI any LCD/PLASMA that will do 720P will also do 1080i not 1080P though. And i have posted on this as ijust got a 42LCD HDTV.. 720P looks better for fast motion 1080i is great for detail. i was watching football the other day. you can see the blades of grass and beads of sweat and the colors are awsome.. 720P looks very good too but slightly less detail but awsome colors and clearity as far as smooth pic.

either way. any HD tv you get will do both 720P and 1080i min also 480p DVD resolution 480i SD tv resolution

mine has a RGB input so i use it for my monitor. it max 1080i but only at 30hz lol looks to flickery native is 1366x720 which is where i set it. evefrything looks grea as a monitor. although thats a small res for such a big monitor. but everything is very clear txt and all.

[yoda313]

I'm seeing some great 17" and 19" monitors in the ads now around the 200.00 mark. Thats about what i'd like to spend. (again this is either a black friday or christmas purchase).

How important is it for the lcd monitor to have true 16:9 aspect ratios? IS that the only way to truly fill the screen on 1.85 wide movies? If its a 2.35 movie then it will still have the horizontal bars but much less wide than traditional sd correct?

Also - nobody has really answered if 5ms is adequate for gaming needs. I have seen 17" 2ms monitors that aren't much above 200.00. Is that overkill? Is 5ms adequate?

One other thing - would it be ideal to get a lcd with built in speakers? I may end up using it as a small hdtv monitor as well as a pc monitor depending on the capability. If its a 720p at least with dvi I could use a upconverting dvd player with it and leave my pc off.