Warner Bros. cancels Canada previews

[ozymango]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070509/ap_en_mo/canada_film_piracy

Ripped from the headline --

TORONTO - Canadian film lovers hoping to catch an early peek at "Ocean's Thirteen" and the upcoming
Harry Potter sequel will be out of luck after Warner Bros. canceled all of its advance screenings and accused Canada of being at the forefront of the piracy market.

Wow, Canada is accused of being at the forefront of piracy! Move over, China! :P

[BJ_M]

As proven by countless many -- the facts simply do not bear out that Canada is a piracy haven...

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1656/159/

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/178181

last year -- btw - they said NYC was responsible for 40% of camcording... but suddenly changed those numbers ...

why ?

I suspect because in Canada downloading is still legal - and also (so far) the Canada Justice Minister Rejected a call for Camcording Law

[smitbret]

Just as long as Canadiens (Canadians) know that it's the RIAA and the MPAA that are making the accusations. 99.9% of Americans don't believe it either.

[Rich86]

My guess is this is just a stunt the movie studios are using to try to coerce another country into enacting something similar to the USA "Gestapo Video Act" - aka DMCA. Kudos to Canada for giving them the proverbial finger . . .
Who even cares about Warner preview showings anyway? I expect the world will continue spinning on it axis just fine and Canada will struggle on through this terrible ordeal (cough, cough).

[Grain]

We're too busy watching the NHL playoffs to care. Go Senators.

[SCDVD]

By the time these jokers finish protecting themselves from the markets, they may do such a good job of "protecting" themselves that they don't have any market left. There is a threshold point beyond which you can't push people any more - they push back.

[gll99]

My guess is this is just a stunt the movie studios are using to try to coerce another country into enacting something similar to the USA "Gestapo Video Act" - aka DMCA. Kudos to Canada for giving them the proverbial finger . . .
Who even cares about Warner preview showings anyway? I expect the world will continue spinning on it axis just fine and Canada will struggle on through this terrible ordeal (cough, cough).

My exact thoughts!!!!

As reported in Canadian news outlets, Canadian law on camcording or other copying of copyright works, seems pretty clear: Those who do it for financial gain can and have been criminally charged but copying / recording for non profit personal use is legitimate. This is the fair use balance that most people seem to expect but which these groups are trying to change. They use the most blatant example, twist the truth and then magnify it out of proportion to create a false impression that all Canadian are pirates who don't buy movies because we get them for nothing. Entertainment makes up a large part of the budget of my family and everyone else I know. Much of that is spent on the movie and tv industry directly or indirectly though advertisers.
As I understand it, it is not the filming or copying which is illegal in Canada, it is the unauthorised distribution for profit which makes it an illegal act. Changing the law could make even the casual user of a camera cellphone a potential criminal and put average people and Canadian law enforcement at the mercy and whim of the MPAA. We are seen by many as accepting even apologetic but Canadians can be very vindictive when they see injustice. It would be political suicide for any party contemplating such ridiculous changes when current laws are quite strict already and focus on the real criminals.

It's hard to believe that a commercial entity has so much influence that it can cause countries to turn on their citizens and criminalize actions which may be in most cases, at worst, personal infringement requiring no more than a cease and desist order in a civil court as a last resort.

I have no sympathy for those who would try to profit from someone else's work. The camcorder case is very specific and I lean a bit with the industry on this one except for cellphones but that's another story. The thing is that they won't stop there once they change one law they will use it as a precedent to push for more.

btw) oh yes... Go Sens Go!!!

[lordsmurf]

Yeah, you folks are just clamoring for those downloads. Nothing makes a good DVD like scratchy audio, washed pulsing video, cropped widescreen, extra "sounds effects" (coughing, bodies moving, kids giggling), picture that wiggles as the cameraman scratches his ass every 20 minutes, and the random head bobbing in front of the movie as the person leaves to take a piss.

Those evil Canadians. How dare they not pass laws to prevent people from creating a piece of shit download that somehow funds terrorism due to sales in a third-world country most of us have never heard of.

Borat made a good point, poking fun at this topic. Some movie from 5 years ago said "coming to Kazakhstan in 2038". That's actually not too far from the truth, in the places where these things are sold (excluding a few crappy places in your mega-cities ... some of which have areas that might as well be Iraq, given the quality of people and violence).

I have a hard time believing all the people who download this crap actually watch (or sell) them. Most of them waste days downloading something, only to see how awful it is, and then delete it and smack themselves in the head for wasting so much time on it. It's literally a "product" that kills itself, because it's so crappy.

What's that saying? "Throw out the baby with the bathwater." They're doing more damage trying to curb a problem that largely curbs itself.

At least the RIAA makes some sense here. MP3 music was small, easy to transfer, and sounded (or could sound) just as good as the source CD. Movies are simply NOT the same. I wonder if RIAA would have had such a fit if people were trading download of music they recorded off the radio by playing the speakers into a microphone on a cassette recorder, and then capturing that. That would sound awful.

[edDV]

My guess is this is just a stunt the movie studios are using to try to coerce another country into enacting something similar to the USA "Gestapo Video Act" - aka DMCA. Kudos to Canada for giving them the proverbial finger . . .
Who even cares about Warner preview showings anyway? I expect the world will continue spinning on it axis just fine and Canada will struggle on through this terrible ordeal (cough, cough).

My exact thoughts!!!!

As reported in Canadian news outlets, Canadian law on camcording or other copying of copyright works, seems pretty clear: Those who do it for financial gain can and have been criminally charged but copying / recording for non profit personal use is legitimate. This is the fair use balance that most people seem to expect but which these groups are trying to change. They use the most blatant example, twist the truth and then magnify it out of proportion to create a false impression that all Canadian are pirates who don't buy movies because we get them for nothing. Entertainment makes up a large part of the budget of my family and everyone else I know. Much of that is spent on the movie and tv industry directly or indirectly though advertisers.
As I understand it, it is not the filming or copying which is illegal in Canada, it is the unauthorised distribution for profit which makes it an illegal act. Changing the law could make even the casual user of a camera cellphone a potential criminal and put average people and Canadian law enforcement at the mercy and whim of the MPAA. We are seen by many as accepting even apologetic but Canadians can be very vindictive when they see injustice. It would be political suicide for any party contemplating such ridiculous changes when current laws are quite strict already and focus on the real criminals.

It's hard to believe that a commercial entity has so much influence that it can cause countries to turn on their citizens and criminalize actions which may be in most cases, at worst, personal infringement requiring no more than a cease and desist order in a civil court as a last resort.

I have no sympathy for those who would try to profit from someone else's work. The camcorder case is very specific and I lean a bit with the industry on this one except for cellphones but that's another story. The thing is that they won't stop there once they change one law they will use it as a precedent to push for more.

btw) oh yes... Go Sens Go!!!

So if I go to a Canadian Cinema, I now have to look around or over the tripods and camcorders plus the big hairdoos?

One of my fondest memories was coming off a summer fighting forest fires near Glacier National Park (US) and going up to Calgary to see Kubrick's 2001 in Cinerama. I sure would have been pissed if all I could see is the back of someone's camcorder.

[BJ_M]

well at least we know how to get 'ready' for a movie

[Conquest10]

If they start delaying movie releases in Canada (maybe they are doing it now, I don't know as I don't live in Canada) they are only hurting themselves and are actually promoting piracy. If there is no legal way for someone to purchase something and they really want it, someone will step in and make sure they get it. Let's not forget what a bootlegger was. When alcohol was illegal, they were the ones that made it available to people.

[BJ_M]

it is a rather bogus statement anyway -- as a HUGE number of movies are premiered at the Toronto Film Festival (2nd largest in the world) - -and i highly doubt that will change much as toronto is considered a key market (also where (canada in general) a lot of tv shows and films are shot) ....

[edDV]

it is a rather bogus statement anyway -- as a HUGE number of movies are premiered at the Toronto Film Festival (2nd largest in the world) - -and i highly doubt that will change much as toronto is considered a key market (also where (canada in general) a lot of tv shows and films are shot) ....

Aren't most B movies and TV series shot in Canada anyway due to Hollywood union rules? Few can afford to shoot in a union state. Almost everything on cable must be shot in Canada, the US lower Midwest or the South.

[BJ_M]

If they start delaying movie releases in Canada (maybe they are doing it now, I don't know as I don't live in Canada) they are only hurting themselves and are actually promoting piracy. If there is no legal way for someone to purchase something and they really want it, someone will step in and make sure they get it. Let's not forget what a bootlegger was. When alcohol was illegal, they were the ones that made it available to people.

funny you should point that out -- as the Canadian Bronfman family made their billions in the liquor business (Seagrams) during the prohibition times in the USA ... The Bronfman's of course bought Vivendi Universal and Warner Music and Universal Studios (as well as owning Canal+) .. they now only own Warner Music ..

they seem to have forgotten their roots -- re: Edgar Bronfman, Jr. : Bronfman is a noted opponent of P2P technologies, and as CEO of Universal, helped lead the music industry's opposition to Napster, likening it to slavery and Soviet communism. In late 2006 in an interview with Reuters, Bronfman caused a stir by admitting that his children have pirated music. He claims to have punished the child, but wants the punishment to remain within the realm of the family.

[BJ_M]

it is a rather bogus statement anyway -- as a HUGE number of movies are premiered at the Toronto Film Festival (2nd largest in the world) - -and i highly doubt that will change much as toronto is considered a key market (also where (canada in general) a lot of tv shows and films are shot) ....

Aren't most B movies and TV series shot in Canada anyway due to Hollywood union rules? Few can afford to shoot in a union state. Almost everything on cable must be shot in Canada, the US lower Midwest or the South.

the movie industry is unionized here also (across canada) -- the same union even (I.A.T.S.E)

a LOT of none B movies and TV shows are filmed/taped here -- more than you realize ...

http://imdb.com/List?locations=canada&&substrings=on&&tv=on&&skip=200 though there are some real crap in here also in this list

[edDV]

it is a rather bogus statement anyway -- as a HUGE number of movies are premiered at the Toronto Film Festival (2nd largest in the world) - -and i highly doubt that will change much as toronto is considered a key market (also where (canada in general) a lot of tv shows and films are shot) ....

Aren't most B movies and TV series shot in Canada anyway due to Hollywood union rules? Few can afford to shoot in a union state. Almost everything on cable must be shot in Canada, the US lower Midwest or the South.

the movie industry is unionized here also (across canada) -- the same union even (I.A.T.S.E)

a LOT of none B movies and TV shows are filmed/taped here -- more than you realize ...

http://imdb.com/List?locations=canada&&substrings=on&&tv=on&&skip=200 though there are some real crap in here also in this list

I know quality work goes on there too but didn't Canada gain share through government subsidy and relaxed work rules? At least during the growth of cable production in the '80s - '90s? Canada has always been near the front of the pack in artsy computer animation although the Saturday morning cartoon shows are the specialty of Korea.

[BJ_M]

yea - it started with good tax breaks ... now a lot of states have the same ... it is (was) cheaper to film here overall at one time .... still cheaper than hollyrocks

[edDV]

It used to be that production (the film part) was often done in Canada but the transfer and post was done in down here. Then other states like Florida and Texas got into production.

That was ten years ago.

[oldandinthe way]

Advance screening are principally important where "word of mouth" advertising is likely to be absent, or there is too little promotional money for the picture and they need to promote "Word of Mouth".

Ocean's 13 is not lacking in ad dollars or word of mouth so this is a gesture which has no real cost to Warner and gets publicity for their piracy position.

Congrats on helping them get their message out.

[lordsmurf]

Advance screening are principally important where "word of mouth" advertising is likely to be absent, or there is too little promotional money for the picture and they need to promote "Word of Mouth".

Ocean's 13 is not lacking in ad dollars or word of mouth so this is a gesture which has no real cost to Warner and gets publicity for their piracy position.

Congrats on helping them get their message out.

Contrary to popular believe, NOT ALL publicity is good publicity. They are definitely gaining more attention than usual, but at what cost?

Most people who would be affected have already seen previews anyway, so it's not like they've never heard of the movie.

[oldfart13]

It's a joke! I have asked the Famous Players theater manager in town why we don't get advance screenings and he said that they don't do well so he has canceled them. That was last year. I don't expect this year to be any different. Most big budget films are already well advertised by the chain. You can't miss the advance trailers, posters and magazines in the theater. I'm certainly not going to miss an advance screening of "Ocean's 13" since I have conveniently missed the 2 previous movies. Oh yeah, we get anti-piracy ads before every film and have had these for the past couple years. How about in the US or elsewhere?

[Rich86]

It's a joke! I have asked the Famous Players theater manager in town why we don't get advance screenings and he said that they don't do well so he has canceled them. That was last year. I don't expect this year to be any different. Most big budget films are already well advertised by the chain. You can't miss the advance trailers, posters and magazines in the theater. I'm certainly not going to miss an advance screening of "Ocean's 13" since I have conveniently missed the 2 previous movies. Oh yeah, we get anti-piracy ads before every film and have had these for the past couple years. How about in the US or elsewhere?

Yep - we get all the anti-piracy nonsense ads and trailers here also.
OK - all you "thieves" out there who change your behavior after viewing one of these "anti-piracy" trailers raise your hands . . .
OK - all you legitimate paying customers out there who are annoyed at being forced to watch this crap raise your hands . . .
Between that junk and the corrupt sectors and phony vts files companies like Sony shove onto their commercially released dvd's these days, there is barely room for a decent video bit-rate version of the film on the disc. Kind if spells out their priorities. If they expended as much effort improving the viewing experience, as they do trying to prevent someone from copying it - they might have more customers.

[Snakebyte1]

I have no problems with a law on camcording a film from a theatre. I don't think anyone can claim that buying an admission ticket gives them "fair use" to record. However, I would guess that most of this type of recording is not from admission paying public, but rather from the theater's staff who can easily set up a video camera in the projection room.

I think I heard that in the US they wanted to have someone going around with night vision equipment looking for patrons with camcorders!! Not sure if that is true or was an April Fools joke.

Meanwhile, highly organized pirates who make thousands of copies and charge $$ for their bootlegs seem to be mostly ignored.

D.

[SCDVD]

Meanwhile, highly organized pirates who make thousands of copies and charge $$ for their bootlegs seem to be mostly ignored.

If they took all of the money they are spending on all of their futile tactics that just annoy people and spent it on a focused effort to catch and prosecute "professional" pirates, they would at least make a small dent in the professional pirate illegal sales. All of the irritating crap they are inflicting on patrons and customers does NOTHING to deter the hard-core pirates. But if they spent the money they are throwing away on useless harassment to instead hire investigators and support staff, they could at least accomplish something. They can't stop all piracy; that's a pipe dream. But they could make a visible dent.

[thecoalman]

well at least we know how to get 'ready' for a movie

If you decide to invade over this,... and i wouldn't blame you. Please, I'm begging you.... bring the beer with you.

[oldandinthe way]

Contrary to popular believe, NOT ALL publicity is good publicity. They are definitely gaining more attention than usual, but at what cost?

Very little in this case.

[buttzilla]

I read another article somewhere not relating to this topic that also marked Canadians as the leaders of the piracy world. Here all the time i thought it was China. Go's to show you never know who your neigbors are. I think we need to build a fence on the northern boarder, we wouldn't want that bad influence passing thru are boarders.

[gll99]

I read another article somewhere not relating to this topic that also marked Canadians as the leaders of the piracy world. Here all the time i thought it was China. Go's to show you never know who your neigbors are. I think we need to build a fence on the northern boarder, we wouldn't want that bad influence passing thru are boarders.

Sounds good but don't stop with a fence. Put up dams on our fresh water rivers and lakes and while your at it stop up those oil and natural gas pipelines even those crossing on Canadian soil from Alaska and oh yes don't forget to sever those electrical wires too. Go for it.

btw) Just build big rooming houses for those boarders and it should solve the problem. :P

Don't we look good with our eye patch on?

[Alan69]

It's too bad they didn't just cancel Canada..

[Nilfennasion]

OK - all you legitimate paying customers out there who are annoyed at being forced to watch this crap raise your hands . . .

Nowadays, I do not even watch my legitimately-purchased DVDs without copying them to DVD+R or DVD+R DL first. Why? Because I own an expensive set with a half-life that particularly makes me angry about having to have any of it expended upon things I have no wish to see.

You try and force me to watch text in languages I do not understand using my $2700 plasma set, I will find a way to defeat you, simple as that. Especially given that I can recite these messages in more languages than I have had birthdays.

These ads were the straw that broke my camel's back, so to speak. Yeah, so piracy is stealing. So is taking away life-hours of a display unit, player, speakers, receiver, and switchbox that I paid good money for. Can you say "hypocrisy", MPAA?

SCDVD said it best. I have been pushed past the point at which I begin to push back, and considering how I am being treated like my money is coated with poop by these people because of where I live, I figure they can just cope with less of it now. Sod them.