DVD Encoding Tools

[Burn_Me]

Hi folks!
I got a question that may be dumb or silly....
Once I ripped a DVD9 sized movie onto the hard drive, I occasionally extract just the main movie to burn onto a DVD5 (depending on whether the extras or movie itself is worth copying to DVD9).

I've tried a few apps to "encode?" this down to the proper size. I have primarily used DVD Shrink 3.2 to do this function. It works fine & is actually very fast. However, I've heard/read many posts that say it's not a good quality compression. Some has suggested to use HC encoder and the CCE SP2 encoders. I have used these encoders with DVD Rebuilder Pro, but they seem to take forever...

I am wondering if I am doing it right. DVD Shrink would probably take 4-5 minutes, while HC or CCE SP2 would take over 30+ minutes. What gives??

[louv68]

30+ minutes is damned fast and the quality difference isn't even close. DVDShrink transcodes video, CCE and HC re-encode the video. You can batch encode in DVD-RB Pro while you sleep. Not sure if the free version of DVD-RB batch encodes or not. I'm sure someone here knows.

[redwudz]

Shrink is a transcoder. It basically throws out information that it thinks isn't needed for the video to playback. The other programs like HC and CCE are encoders. They completely rebuild the video structure to the desired format. This takes time.

If I have a main movie from a DVD that almost fits on a DVD-5, then Shrink seems a good option with very little quality loss. But if the same main movie is, say 7GB, that's really more than Shrink can handle without a fair amount of loss. In that case re-encoding with DVDRebuilder and CCE or HC or similar seems the best option to preserve quality. Encoding will take much longer than transcoding.

At least that's how I look at it.

[ricoman]

I use HC with rebuilder and 2 passes takes me 4 hrs. on a 3.0mhz P4 with 1g ram. I guess you can cut it in have if you have a dual core processor. So, I can't understand (or believe) that you are complaining about 30min. Actually, I can't believe you can use Shrink in 4-5 min. with deep analysis. Frankly, I only use Rebuilder/HC for movies that are 2 1/2 hrs. or longer. You won't really notice the difference unless you have a 60"+ screen. Stick with Shrink or CloneDVD2 for the rest.

[Burn_Me]

I use HC with rebuilder and 2 passes takes me 4 hrs. on a 3.0mhz P4 with 1g ram. I guess you can cut it in have if you have a dual core processor. So, I can't understand (or believe) that you are complaining about 30min. Actually, I can't believe you can use Shrink in 4-5 min. with deep analysis. Frankly, I only use Rebuilder/HC for movies that are 2 1/2 hrs. or longer. You won't really notice the difference unless you have a 60"+ screen. Stick with Shrink or CloneDVD2 for the rest.

Ricoman,
I do have a dual core AMD. When I was encoding, I was looking at the time & it has elapsed around 30 or so minutes, and the whole project was just about half done. Thus, if I were to let it sit & complete, I would think it take just over a hour to encode my video.

Regarding DVD Shrink, I don't believe I have "deep analysis" checked. But, it does "shrink" my DVD in less than 5 minutes.

I'm still trying to understand/decipher the difference of transcoding vs encoding.... It seems that the consenses is saying that Encoding does just take a long time. So, I guess I'm not doing anything wrong. I just don't know whether it's worth about 2 hours (ripping, encoding, then burning) to do DVD9 to DVD5. Since the DL media is now cheaper, wouldn't it be easier just to skip the encoding process & do a copy in 45 mins or less?

[ricoman]

Regarding DVD Shrink, I don't believe I have "deep analysis" checked. But, it does "shrink" my DVD in less than 5 minutes.

I'm still trying to understand/decipher the difference of transcoding vs encoding.... It seems that the consenses is saying that Encoding does just take a long time. So, I guess I'm not doing anything wrong. I just don't know whether it's worth about 2 hours (ripping, encoding, then burning) to do DVD9 to DVD5. Since the DL media is now cheaper, wouldn't it be easier just to skip the encoding process & do a copy in 45 mins or less?

Yes, if you can afford Verb DL (ONLY USE VERBS) that is the way to go. No compression is the best you can do. However, when you use Shrink, always use the deep analysis for best results.

[Burn_Me]

**deleted** multiple post

[jman98]

By the way, ricoman means "Verbatim" when he says "Verbs".

It's your call. You could always run DVD Rebuilder's encoding step while you sleep. However, I have learned that people who freak out about "how long" it takes to encode rarely care about anything but getting it done ASAP. DVD Rebuilder typically takes 3-4 hours for me on AMD 3200+ chip. If you think that 5 minutes is plenty of time to spend doing this, then I suggest continuing to use DVD Shrink and don't do deep analysis. Either you want to spend the time to get quality encodes or you want it done fast, but you can't have both. Choose which is most important to you.

[Cornucopia]

Here's ~the difference under the hood:

1. Re-encoding--
A. Decode_Put GOPs in order
B. Decode_Apply Inverse DCT using encoded Quant table
C. Decode_Apply Motion compensation for P & B frames to restore to full picture frames
D. (Optional) Decode_Convert colorspace from YUV 4:2:0 to RGB 4:4:4

E. (Optional, but needed if D is done) Encode_Convert colorspace back to YUV 4:2:0
F. Encode_Analyze sequence to find I frames and create GOP structure
G. Encode_Apply DCT and Quantization, store table with encode.
H. Shuffle GOP order for appropriate realtime decoding needs


vs.

2. Transcoding--
A. Read Quant tables in GOPs, determine "compression ratio"
B. Determine savings ratio needed
C. Rewrite GOP quant tables with "more compressable" numbers (like LOTS of ZEROs)--gets rid of "finest detail"
D. Resave file (Huffman/RLE/LZW coding of the Q table will increase compressability).

Since it never goes back through all the encoding/decoding stages, it's a lot quicker. But it has to cut corners by only being able to analyze while still in the DCT (freq) domain, not in normal (time) domain, so this is where true re-encoding can preserve most quality EVEN with greater amounts of recompression.

Scott

[redwudz]

Good information, Cornucopia. A lot more than I knew about the differences and processes. Thanks.

[Burn_Me]

What would all say would be a good general rule of thumb? E.G. If the main movie requires 90%+ compression, stick with Shink (won't lose too much), if 90% or lower, using a true "encoder??

[redwudz]

Lots of opinions on how low you should go with Shrink. Do a forum search. I personally cut it off at 70 - 60%. But you will notice a fair amount of difference at 50% or lower. I do run analysis with all backups. And I generally just back up the main movie with no subs or extras or alternate languages.

[vico1]

Lots of opinions on how low you should go with Shrink.
Do a forum search. I personally cut it off at 70 - 60%.

There really are a lot of opinions.
On any transcoder, I usually put the cut-off at 80-75% qual,
any lower & it's on to DVD Rebuilder.

That being said...I could go lower, & have it look fine, on our 36" Mitsubishi (tube) TV.
However, we watch a lot of them over at my brothers, on his Pioneer 42" Plasma Display,
and that plasma display, shows a lot more vid quality discrepancies than our Mitsu.

[ricoman]

If it is a court room drama I'm not as particular but for visual or action movies I'll use RB if it is under 70% and it is a movie I like. I have a 50" Sony LCD rear proj. HDTV and really can't see a difference above that.