Backing-up DVD problems (Dual-Layer)

[Burn_Me]

I'm a newbie at this sport... so don't flame me.. hehe
I'm trying to "clone" some DVD-9's w/o much success. Here's what I have and use:

1) NEC 3550A & BENQ DW1655
2) NERO 7 ULTRA
3) DVD SHRINK
4) DVD FAB PLATNIUM 3.XX
5) Verbatim DVD +R DL (code: MKM...001)

I, first use DVD FAB to extract the full disc onto my HDD. Once that is done, I use Nero to burn "video disc" to onto the Verbatim DL using speeds of 2.4x & 4x. When it is completed, the DVD works on my computer, but rarely works on the standalone (Norcent & Lite-On units). Some discs work very poorly (features & extra menus) & sometimes the disc won't even work at all on the DVD players. I don't know what I'm doing wrong...? Everyone says the Verbatim DL DVD's are the best, but I get very poor results. I always do a quality scan using DVD/CD speed (NERO) & my results/scores are never better than 50. Help!? I'm wasting many DVD's already

[69mako]

If you are trying to make a DVD9 to DVD9 copy, use RIPIT4ME to rip the disk to your HD and use IMGBURN to burn to a dual layer disk. Works flawlessly for me. Good luck.

Mako

[Burn_Me]

If you are trying to make a DVD9 to DVD9 copy, use RIPIT4ME to rip the disk to your HD and use IMGBURN to burn to a dual layer disk. Works flawlessly for me. Good luck.

Mako

IIRC, Ritit4me require DVD decryptor, which is no longer updated & doesn't work with the latest protections. I tried to make it work with DVDFAB decryptor, but it wouldn't work... I've heard & read that some ppl are having better luck using imgburn over Nero.

[guns1inger]

You don't understand. DVD Decrypter was ahead of it's time. It understood the new protection before they stopped development. RipIt4Me creates a PSL (Protected Sectors List) file which is all DVD Decrypter needs to rip any protected disc. FixVTS then repairs the damage done by stripping out the protection. LightningUK, the author of DVD Decrypter was ahead of his time, and because of this, DVD Decrypter is still the most reliable ripper around.

[Burn_Me]

You don't understand. DVD Decrypter was ahead of it's time. It understood the new protection before they stopped development. RipIt4Me creates a PSL (Protected Sectors List) file which is all DVD Decrypter needs to rip any protected disc. FixVTS then repairs the damage done by stripping out the protection. LightningUK, the author of DVD Decrypter was ahead of his time, and because of this, DVD Decrypter is still the most reliable ripper around.

So, are you saying that the DVD FAB Platninum is my problem? I've also used DVD Shrink 3.2 w/ pretty much the same result. I'm not sure what's going on??..

[jman98]

I'm surprised with all this information, which is all correct, that nobody has really bothered to get to the guts of the original problem.

Nero was reported in the past to not set the layer break correctly on DL media. Some here have reported no problems with their Nero burned discs. Others have. The BEST way to do what you want is to rip with something, use PgcEdit to create an ISO and then burn with ImgBurn. See a discussion here (scroll to the bottom)
http://www.digital-digest.com/~blutach/pgcedit_guide/burning_with_pgcedit/burning_with...pgcedit_v2.htm
for
1) why you should use this method if you care at all about being able to recover from sector errors in the future and still watch your disc
2) why Nero and DVDShrink are both wrong in placing BUPs and IFOs in the same sector, which means if that sector goes bad the disc won't be playable.

DL media is tricky in some players. Some players don't use good quality drives and there can also be issues with firmware. PCs with good burner drives don't have those kinds of issues. You are right to use Verbatim. Try the rip -> PgcEdit -> ImgBurn method and see if your results don't improve. Finally, don't pay too much attention to the quality scan reports. It's been discussed a lot at this website, maybe too much, but basically Nero's quality reports are barely better than nothing and may give false results depending on a rather large variety of factors.

[Burn_Me]

I'm surprised with all this information, which is all correct, that nobody has really bothered to get to the guts of the original problem.

Nero was reported in the past to not set the layer break correctly on DL media. Some here have reported no problems with their Nero burned discs. Others have. The BEST way to do what you want is to rip with something, use PgcEdit to create an ISO and then burn with ImgBurn. See a discussion here (scroll to the bottom)
http://www.digital-digest.com/~blutach/pgcedit_guide/burning_with_pgcedit/burning_with...pgcedit_v2.htm
for
1) why you should use this method if you care at all about being able to recover from sector errors in the future and still watch your disc
2) why Nero and DVDShrink are both wrong in placing BUPs and IFOs in the same sector, which means if that sector goes bad the disc won't be playable.

DL media is tricky in some players. Some players don't use good quality drives and there can also be issues with firmware. PCs with good burner drives don't have those kinds of issues. You are right to use Verbatim. Try the rip -> PgcEdit -> ImgBurn method and see if your results don't improve. Finally, don't pay too much attention to the quality scan reports. It's been discussed a lot at this website, maybe too much, but basically Nero's quality reports are barely better than nothing and may give false results depending on a rather large variety of factors.

Jman98,
I've also used the "clone" feature within DVDFAB Platinum, which is supposed to do an exact copy of the DL DVD. It seems that it rips the DVD into an ISO and then burns it. That's all I'm trying to do. Any idea why this doesn't work?

Thanks!

[bbanderic]

I'm surprised with all this information, which is all correct, that nobody has really bothered to get to the guts of the original problem.

Nero was reported in the past to not set the layer break correctly on DL media. Some here have reported no problems with their Nero burned discs. Others have. The BEST way to do what you want is to rip with something, use PgcEdit to create an ISO and then burn with ImgBurn. See a discussion here (scroll to the bottom)
http://www.digital-digest.com/~blutach/pgcedit_guide/burning_with_pgcedit/burning_with...pgcedit_v2.htm
for
1) why you should use this method if you care at all about being able to recover from sector errors in the future and still watch your disc
2) why Nero and DVDShrink are both wrong in placing BUPs and IFOs in the same sector, which means if that sector goes bad the disc won't be playable.

DL media is tricky in some players. Some players don't use good quality drives and there can also be issues with firmware. PCs with good burner drives don't have those kinds of issues. You are right to use Verbatim. Try the rip -> PgcEdit -> ImgBurn method and see if your results don't improve. Finally, don't pay too much attention to the quality scan reports. It's been discussed a lot at this website, maybe too much, but basically Nero's quality reports are barely better than nothing and may give false results depending on a rather large variety of factors.

To the OP, you have good tools listed but you really should have ImgBurn, it's a must, screw Nero for DVD DL burning.

There's really a lot we don't know here, 1st being whether the DVD 9's he's trying to clone actually have the new copy protections. I would first try ripping with DVD Decrypter in "ISO read" mode, then you won't have to worry about layer breaks as they are preserved, then burn the ISO with ImgBurn.

If DVD Decrypter doesn't work and the DVD 9's do have the new copy protections, I'd use RipIt4Me which now has FixVTS incorporated right in it. I then would use ImgBurn to burn and set the layer break. Personally, I don't see the need for PgcEdit in this process but it certainly doesn't hurt. ImgBurn sets the layer break beautifully and leaves at least 32K of space between IFO and BUP, it will also create an ISO if you choose as well. It doesn't hurt to create an ISO file before burning, but not necessary, it just adds another step IMO, it won't make the quality any better. ImgBurn will burn the video files straight to disc:

http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=1780

To create ISO with ImgBurn, if you choose to do so:

http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=1777



I'm not too familiar with DVD Fab but if I used it to rip the DVD, I'd use ImgBurn for the burning. In fact, ImgBurn should be used for ALL DVD burning..

[Burn_Me]

Hi bbanderic,
I have problems with all DVD, if I'm doing a straight 1:1 copy. Some of them have the newer protection, but most of the ones that I'm backup does not have the new protection. Any which way, from reading various articles, DVDFAB should be able to rip/copy all the new formats as well. The suggestions that I've been getting seems to suggest that my ripping software (DVD Shrink, DVDFAB) and my burning (NERO - primarily) are not good.

I'm using good media in Verbatims (DL) & TY02's (SL), but my burn results (per Nero CD/DVD Speed) results for my Verbatim DL are HORRIBLE, even at slowest speeds. Someone above suggested the Nero tool may not be the best tool to determine quality of burn. If that is the case, how do I test the quality of my burns, anyway? Keep on the suggestions flowing on how to best do a functioning 1:1 DL DVD copy.

Thanks!

[bbanderic]

Hi bbanderic,
I have problems with all DVD, if I'm doing a straight 1:1 copy. Some of them have the newer protection, but most of the ones that I'm backup does not have the new protection. Any which way, from reading various articles, DVDFAB should be able to rip/copy all the new formats as well. The suggestions that I've been getting seems to suggest that my ripping software (DVD Shrink, DVDFAB) and my burning (NERO - primarily) are not good.

I'm using good media in Verbatims (DL) & TY02's (SL), but my burn results (per Nero CD/DVD Speed) results for my Verbatim DL are HORRIBLE, even at slowest speeds. Someone above suggested the Nero tool may not be the best tool to determine quality of burn. If that is the case, how do I test the quality of my burns, anyway? Keep on the suggestions flowing on how to best do a functioning 1:1 DL DVD copy.

Thanks!

No matter what, you're going to have to experiment a little bit and that may mean some coasters until you get the right combination of programs to work for you. You're using the best media and your burners are very good as well, assuming they're in good working order, so you should be good there.

I wouldn't worry about quality scans right now, they're unreliable IMO depending on the equipment/program your using, but some people here may disagree.

First, I would try to backup a DVD that does NOT have the new copy protections. Use the DVD Decrypter/ImgBurn combo I recommended and see how that works, I'd start there. You have two burners, whichever burner you've been using, try the other one.

I can't stress enough, DO NOT use Nero for DVD burning, use ImgBurn ONLY. Stay away from DVD Fab for now if that's what you've been using, try the methods I explained earlier.

Also, make sure your hard drive is defragged, and your burners are in DMA mode.

Good luck.

[Burn_Me]

I will give that suggestion a shot. Is Ripit4me & DVD decryter the same, since Ripit4me just uses DVD decryter to rip the DVD? Thus if I use Ripit4me, it will yield the same exact results?

[bbanderic]

You don't understand. DVD Decrypter was ahead of it's time. It understood the new protection before they stopped development. RipIt4Me creates a PSL (Protected Sectors List) file which is all DVD Decrypter needs to rip any protected disc. FixVTS then repairs the damage done by stripping out the protection. LightningUK, the author of DVD Decrypter was ahead of his time, and because of this, DVD Decrypter is still the most reliable ripper around.

So, are you saying that the DVD FAB Platninum is my problem? I've also used DVD Shrink 3.2 w/ pretty much the same result. I'm not sure what's going on??..

If you've only used DVD Fab, Nero or DVD Shrink for the burning part then that is most likely your problem. Remember, DVD Shrink uses Nero for the burning, it uses DVD Decrypter as well if it's installed and you choose that option.

I don't see DVD Decrypter or ImgBurn in your list of tools. If you want quality, functional DL DVD's then these tools are essential.

[t0nee1]

This my method that works thus far...
Rip DVDFABdecrypter full movie > IMGburn to iso DL disk @2.4x ,using Verbs DVD+R DL..
IMO I don't think it has to do with the rip, as much as it has to do with how you burn DL..
As others stated don't use shrink or Nero to burn DL, use IMGburn preferably....
just my 2 1/2 cents.....

[bbanderic]

I will give that suggestion a shot. Is Ripit4me & DVD decryter the same, since Ripit4me just uses DVD decryter to rip the DVD? Thus if I use Ripit4me, it will yield the same exact results?

First thing you should do is install DVD Decrypter and ImgBurn.

[bbanderic]

IMO I don't think it has to do with the rip, as much as it has to do with how you burn DL..
As others stated don't use shrink or Nero to burn DL, use IMGburn preferably....
just my 2 1/2 cents.....

I agree.

[Burn_Me]

IMO I don't think it has to do with the rip, as much as it has to do with how you burn DL..
As others stated don't use shrink or Nero to burn DL, use IMGburn preferably....
just my 2 1/2 cents.....

I agree.

Bbanderic,
First thing I did when I got back home was try to burn the *.iso image I had backed up a DVD using DVDFAB Platinum 3, since the consensus was saying that the problem was my burning software (NERO) not my ripping. Well, per your suggestion, I burnt the ISO using ImgBurn. Then, just out of curiosity, I ran a Nero quality scan right after it was done.... it scored a 92!!! It was the first time I had scored anything over 50 using the Verbatim DVD+R DL disks... I had wasted 13 of these $$ disks before this one!? :-O

So, I'm quite happy with the results. I then take it up to my standalone players. I tried it in my main one (Norcent DP-220) & it read & read & read... & stops. Then, there was nothing!? Hit menu & still nothing. Pressed stop & play, but still got nothing. Powered off & on, it was same process. End result is it would not work!? I was then dissapointed.

Then, I took it out of the Norcent & stuck it in my LiteOn LVW-5005. It started reading the disc (I started getting nervous again) & for a few seconds it worked! Weird... I tried all the menu & extra feature & they all seem to work. It seems that I may have burned my first sucessful DVD (DL) disc.

Why wouldn't it work on my Norcent player though...? Thanks for all you help!!

[bbanderic]

IMO I don't think it has to do with the rip, as much as it has to do with how you burn DL..
As others stated don't use shrink or Nero to burn DL, use IMGburn preferably....
just my 2 1/2 cents.....

I agree.

Bbanderic,
First thing I did when I got back home was try to burn the *.iso image I had backed up a DVD using DVDFAB Platinum 3, since the consensus was saying that the problem was my burning software (NERO) not my ripping. Well, per your suggestion, I burnt the ISO using ImgBurn. Then, just out of curiosity, I ran a Nero quality scan right after it was done.... it scored a 92!!! It was the first time I had scored anything over 50 using the Verbatim DVD+R DL disks... I had wasted 13 of these $$ disks before this one!? :-O

So, I'm quite happy with the results. I then take it up to my standalone players. I tried it in my main one (Norcent DP-220) & it read & read & read... & stops. Then, there was nothing!? Hit menu & still nothing. Pressed stop & play, but still got nothing. Powered off & on, it was same process. End result is it would not work!? I was then dissapointed.

Then, I took it out of the Norcent & stuck it in my LiteOn LVW-5005. It started reading the disc (I started getting nervous again) & for a few seconds it worked! Weird... I tried all the menu & extra feature & they all seem to work. It seems that I may have burned my first sucessful DVD (DL) disc.

Why wouldn't it work on my Norcent player though...? Thanks for all you help!!

DL discs are finicky on some players, that's just the way it is. I've never heard of Norcent,. can't comment on that. So it works in the LiteOn just fine? In the future if you know you're going to burn a lot of DL discs, it's good to buy a player that's known to handle them well.

[t0nee1]

"DL discs are finicky on some players, that's just the way it is."
Boy ain't that the truth! even SL discs occasionally... I normally use whatever tools work in my arsenal.. if one fails try something diff..
But I only burn with IMGburn or IMGtools burn and use only Verb media....
Not to knock anything else!!!! that's just what works for me!

[Burn_Me]

I'm beginning to think now, that it's also the rip that may have something to do with it. I tried doing another rip using the suggestions here.

The Grudge 2:

1) Rip using ripit4me (several prompts to change region code??)
I had tried to use DVDdecrypter first, but it wasn't able to read.

2) Burn the output file/folders using ImgBurn, on Verbatim +R - DL

The end result is that..... this is my first real successful burn in DL format. This disk works on both my Norcent & Lite-On drives. This is awesome. However, I'm still not really certain why my previous burn of another DVD (Pirates of the Caribbean) did not play in my Norcent, only on my Lite-on. Also not sure why DVDdecrypter did not read "The Grudge 2", but when used with Ripit4me, it was able to work... weird.

[ScorpioDragon]

Also not sure why DVDdecrypter did not read "The Grudge 2", but when used with Ripit4me, it was able to work... weird.

Nothing weird about it. You must remember that RipIt4Me is a front-end for DVD Decrypter. DVD Decrypter is an older ripper, which is why it should be used in conjunction with RipIt4Me for newer DVDs. Using DVD Decrypter by itself will lessen your chances of being able to rip newer DVDs.

RipIt4Me (w/DVD Decrypter) + ImgBurn + Verbatim = Success. It is somewhat difficult to even think about using anything else.

Happy ripping & burning...

[guns1inger]

Ripit4me also throws FixVTS into the mix. Removing structure protection is not a subtle exercise. DVD Fab Decrypter is a blunt object of a tool at the best of times, but it doesn't matter what you use on structure protection, the results can be unpleasant. FixVTS repairs the damage done during the removal. If you did not run FixVTS over the results from DVD Fab Decrypter's rip then it could well have been broken and unplayable, no matter what you burned with. Usually Shrink chokes if the results aren't clean, but not always.

[bbanderic]

Also not sure why DVDdecrypter did not read "The Grudge 2", but when used with Ripit4me, it was able to work... weird.

Nothing weird about it. You must remember that RipIt4Me is a front-end for DVD Decrypter. DVD Decrypter is an older ripper, which is why it should be used in conjunction with RipIt4Me for newer DVDs. Using DVD Decrypter by itself will lessen your chances of being able to rip newer DVDs.

RipIt4Me (w/DVD Decrypter) + ImgBurn + Verbatim = Success. It is somewhat difficult to even think about using anything else.

Happy ripping & burning...

I agree 100%.

[bbanderic]

Ripit4me also throws FixVTS into the mix. Removing structure protection is not a subtle exercise. DVD Fab Decrypter is a blunt object of a tool at the best of times, but it doesn't matter what you use on structure protection, the results can be unpleasant. FixVTS repairs the damage done during the removal. If you did not run FixVTS over the results from DVD Fab Decrypter's rip then it could well have been broken and unplayable, no matter what you burned with. Usually Shrink chokes if the results aren't clean, but not always.

FixVTS is automatic with RitIt4Me as it's now built in, the way to go IMO. I'm not familiar with DVDFab, but if I were to use it, and it would be last resort, I'd run the files through FixVTS first before burning.

[t0nee1]

For my Grudge 2 backup, I used DVDFabdecrypter (not platinum) >DVDRBpro(my fav. for quality) >IMG tool burn @6x using Verb DVD+R media=

Though I have R4ME, shrink, DVDD, DVDFab free, and DVDRB pro and free,I prefer Fab > DVDRBpro ,not shrink for my dvd-5 b-ups ,and I have not had to use FixVTS first before burning, while ripping with Fab.... at least not yet!!!! And for DL, I use FAB> IMGburn ISO verb media 2.4x =
But I never ever use anything else besides IMG to burn, ever!!!!!

[MOVIEGEEK]

1.Most DVD's: DVDDecrypter ->ISO Read->ISO Write.
2.Sony and LionsGate DVD's: DVDFab Decrypter to rip and ImgBurn(build mode) to write.

[justRob]

I noticed in DVD Fab Platinum under Common Preferences | DVD | Protection there is a check box for Remove layer break. After disabling this I took the resulting VIDEO_TS files and loaded them into ImgBurn (Build) and the Layer Break was set correctly. That's what you may be missing using Fab and ImgBurn. I'm experimenting with that to see if it consistently works or fails.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I noticed in DVD Fab Platinum under Common Preferences | DVD | Protection there is a check box for Remove layer break. After disabling this I took the resulting VIDEO_TS files and loaded them into ImgBurn (Build) and the Layer Break was set correctly. That's what you may be missing using Fab and ImgBurn. I'm experimenting with that to see if it consistently works or fails.

You are correct:the layer break removal is for DVD-5,if you are making a 1:1 copy of a DVD-9 then you untick it(also in DVDShrink).