Canopus Policy - evil or just stupid?

[jlietz]

Allow me to rant (and I hope this serves as a warning to others...)

I've been using Procoder 2.0 for a few years now. I bought it legally and have 2 legitimate copies running on 2 different systems. Today, one of the USB dongles began to fall apart and no longer works (for those who don't know, Procoder can not be used unless the dongle is plugged in.)

I called customer support to get a new one and to my surprise found that a new dongle would be a $50 charge. I can understand a nominal fee for replacement and shipping, but $50!

Anyway, the worst part is that they refuse to send a new dongle until they receive the old one. Which means I can't use that copy of Procoder for the next X number of days. Which means I'm losing money because my business depends on being able to use Procoder. Which means I'm p***ed off

To make a long story short, I pleaded with the service manager to make an exception to the policy so that they could ship the new one while mine was being shipped back, but he would not go for it. I offered to supply my credit card number so that they could charge the card for another copy of Procoder if I didn't send the old one back (like respectable hard drive manufacturers do with RMA products), but he would not budge. The most he was willing to do was to overnight the new dongle after they receive the old one. I told him I appreciated it, but that unless they sent the new one right away (without waiting for my old one) I was done buying Canopus products. I explained to him that I have literally spent several thousand dollars on Canopus products, but he still did not budge. They even had the nerve to imply that I had mishandled the dongle because "they don't just break by themselves..." For the record, the dongle was simply inserted, removed, re-inserted, etc, in a normal manner. There was most definitely no mishandling.

I just can not fathom how this is a fair policy. I understand that they are concerned about theft, etc., but this really is ridiculous. And I know, some may take the position that the EULA that I agreed to when installing probably says something about the dongle, but what really irks me is that this policy ensures that there will be a period where the software is unusable by the user. Since they do not allow the user to have more than one dongle, if it breaks, the user is stuck with software that doesn't work until one can be exchanged - there is no way around it (except for buying an additional license at $300...)

If you have read this far, any thoughts? I wonder if I would have a legitimate claim for damages if the EULA says nothing of the REQUIRED time lag between the dongle breaking and getting a new one (I haven't read it yet...)

[lordsmurf]

Those Canopus dongles really are pieces of crap, as far as I'm concerned. I've seen cheap $10 thumb drives that are better built.

If I'm not mistaken, the crack for version 1 of Procoder was written by a pissed off customer, his dongle setup was flaky. That may just be a myth or legend, but I would not be surprised. Dongles historically do little more than aggravate customers. It's nice that many companies have dumped them. Although it is sad that some have instead adopted Internet "call home" garbage.

[jlietz]

I don't even know how to get a crack, but this is just about enough to make me look I guess I'll just have to settle for a strongly worded letter...

[Marvingj]

I think some companies don't put much effort into customer support. They figure their product is infallible. They don't realize word-of-mouth about unresolved problems gets around fast in the video community and has an effect on sales. Just my opinion, but customer support makes more customers and loyal customers at that.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Misguided, I'd said.

[ozymango]

They even had the nerve to imply that I had mishandled the dongle because "they don't just break by themselves..." For the record, the dongle was simply inserted, removed, re-inserted, etc, in a normal manner. There was most definitely no mishandling.

I work for university and have had to support "dongle-ized" software in the past, and frankly I hate it. For anyone who doesn't already know, college student users (and even some staff/faculty users) are not know for their "gentleness" when it comes to using equipment, no offense, and even gentle people have been known to move computers around, just a bit, and do these companies realize how many computers out there still have USB ports only on the back of the PC?

And do they realize that a dongle that sticks out of the back of a computer is about ten seconds away from getting snapped right off?

At the moment, I've got a copy of Quark X-Press on my shelf, it's an older version but still usable, nicely boxed and everything, everything's there but the #$@# dongle because we've lost or broken three of them and it's not worth it to hassle with anymore.

EDIT: I like the MainConcept encoder myself. We have a copy of Procoder that's used mostly for web stuff and they installed the dongle inside the case, on an expansion slot on a USB card, so there's no way it can get bumped.

[thecoalman]

I'd agree that's ridiculous, especially after offering them your credit card number as guarantee.

If I'm not mistaken, the crack for version 1 of Procoder was written by a pissed off customer,

I wouldn't doubt that is how many of these hacks come about, here's a quote from the dude that originally hacked into the HD discs:

I just bought a HD-DVD drive to plug on my PC, and a HD movie, cool! But when I realized the 2 software
players on windows don't allowed me to play the movie at all, because my video card is not HDCP compliant and because I
have a HD monitor plugged with DVI interface, I started to get mad...

[robertazimmerman]

I don't even know how to get a crack, but this is just about enough to make me look I guess I'll just have to settle for a strongly worded letter...

Get the crack and run it. I'd love to see Canopus try to prevent you from using software that you paid for!

Roberta

[Towncrier]

Many years ago I worked for a medical equipment company that used dongles to protect our intelectual property. Believe it or not, the unprogrammed dongles cost us $75 each. In quantity. So perhaps Canopus is just passing on a legitimate cost. Or maybe they are just gouging you.

[oldandinthe way]

It seems that if one googles (((edited by moderator - bjm))) to not use a dongle.

If you are licensed to use the product and the licensing agreement does not specifically require you to use the dongle, it might be legal for you to run the cracked version.

Reading time.

[ntscuser]

Anyway, the worst part is that they refuse to send a new dongle until they receive the old one. Which means I can't use that copy of Procoder for the next X number of days. Which means I'm losing money because my business depends on being able to use Procoder.

If the old dongle "doesn't work" like you say, you can't use it anyway so what's the problem with sending it back?

[daamon]

It sounds like you got an ar5ehole who was on a promise the night before and got blown out by his Mrs or "street corner" friend.

I've often found ringing back (with a cool head) works just because you get someone different, and you can't get any worse. Second time round you can make suggestions (like the credit card number, a good one) up front before someone has said "No" and doesn't want to lose face by going back on their decision.

[jlietz]

If the old dongle "doesn't work" like you say, you can't use it anyway so what's the problem with sending it back?

Sending back the old one is not a problem. The problem is that they won't send the new one until they get the old one, which increases the number of days that I can't use the product.

I've often found ringing back (with a cool head) works just because you get someone different, and you can't get any worse.

You're right, but I spoke with the manager...

[ozymango]

If the old dongle "doesn't work" like you say, you can't use it anyway so what's the problem with sending it back?

Time lag = profit loss. Point being, if they send a dongle immediately, it's here in X days (of lost profit). If they won't send it until after they receive the defective one, then that's the shipping time to return the the bad part -- let's call that "Y" number of days -- which you then add to the X days.

It's not that he can do anything now, but with their policy, he loses the time it takes for the part to reach them first. Which may only be one more day, if he overnights the part to them -- but then he (the customer) has to eat both the extra day of travel time and the shipping cost on his end for rush delivery to them.

Sure, it's "just" one more day and "just" a $15 overnight envelope.

EDIT: He beat me to it!

[Bodysurf]

If you have read this far, any thoughts?

1. Buy a new copy of Procoder and have it sent overnite to you.
2. Send the old dongle back for an exchange.
3. When they send you a new dongle, send (1) back for a refund.

Sucks they make you play this stupid game.

[daamon]

Sending back the old one is not a problem. The problem is that they won't send the new one until they get the old one, which increases the number of days that I can't use the product.

Does the dongle still work? If so, leave returning it until you're in a quieter period in your business - if you are ever less busy that is.

You're right, but I spoke with the manager...

He'll have a boss, and his boss won't like to hear how unsupportive the manager was towards a customer that's forked out a lot of money with Canopus and offered to provide his credit card details if he did reneg on the deal.

You could even offer to pay for a license, have the dongle sent, return your dying dongle and get a refund less the cost of the replacement dongle. That's if you trust them...

[Ghozt Particlez]

This isn't the first time Canopus use such business practices towards their customers. There are others who experienced the same maltreatment from Canopus. I'm glad I didn't purchase any Canopus products when I first heard of their mafia-like business tactics, and your post only cemented my decision to not use Canopus.

I would email this thread to their customer support and let them read their customers' displeasure and loss of potential customers, like myself. Actually, they probably wouldn't even care so scratch that idea.

EDIT: grammar

[steptoe]

Interesting thought really about using the 'cracked' dongle free version

You have bought the software legally and own the dongle which the software requires to run, so as I see it you're not actually breaking any piracy laws as you paid for the software in the first place

So, they can't turn around and say they are losing money as you have 'stolen' the product by using a cracked version. You bought it to start with, but because of their awkwardness you are losing money


Try suggesting in your next phone call (if you can be bothered to waste more time) that you may consider seeking loss of earnings, as without the dongle it won't work. If it won't work, you have downtime, downtime means loss of earnings. That usually works, especially when you also happen to mention that you will may also consider not buying anymore of their products and tell them roughly how much you have spent with them, etc, etc



If you can prove that you are a registered customer, whats the problem, apart from a faceless person on a phone stating 'company policy'

Also, the 'it just doesn't break sir, it must be something you have done wrong' is a common one, if its not designed to be plugged and unplugged why create something like that to start with, could it be fitted in an internal USB port to stop further damaged


As somebody else suggested try ringing again, I've had that problem with companies where one person refuses to budge and is not interested in the slightest apart from stating 'policy', you get somebody else who is very helpful and makes you wonder what kind of training companies give if one person can't or won't help and somebody else goes out of their way and solves it in 15 minutes what you're tried for over an hour to solve previously and numerous phone calls

[ntscuser]

If the old dongle "doesn't work" like you say, you can't use it anyway so what's the problem with sending it back?

Sending back the old one is not a problem. The problem is that they won't send the new one until they get the old one, which increases the number of days that I can't use the product.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were refusing to send the old dongle back until they sent you a new one. My bad

[JohnnyMalaria]

Phone them, tell them about this post, tell them they are getting some VERY bad press. Ask them to accommodate you and get some positive press....

[SCDVD]

Send a letter to the top management in the company. The low-life functionaries in the company basically don't care - it's just a job. If fact, some of these characters get off on some sort of power trip by inconveniencing you.

[The_Doman]

It seems that if one googles "Canopus procoder crack" there are sites with 2.0 cracked to not use a dongle.

It seems that if one googles for "edited by moderator (bjm) " you can find uselful things too...

[BJ_M]

please stop suggesting warez and cracks on this forum or this thread will be locked

[AlanHK]

I like the MainConcept encoder myself. We have a copy of Procoder that's used mostly for web stuff and they installed the dongle inside the case, on an expansion slot on a USB card, so there's no way it can get bumped.

Aside from getting a crack, installing it permanently inside the case, there is usually a USB socket on the MOBO, would be ideal. Of course, that won't work if you have a laptop or need to use it on two machines. In that case, get a short USB extender cable. Then you plug the dongle into that semi-permanently, wrap it in gaffer tape safely. If and when the cable connector breaks you just get a new cable for $1. It might be possible to use in a hub, if that works even better.

[BJ_M]

my procoder came with a dongle extender cable and breakout box where you could plug three of them in ... i also mounted in inside - i had something like 4 or 5 dongles on one machine once , which is nuts (some where the older printer port type also) ....

i got 5 or 6 of them here that i can even remember what they are for as some companies never label the darn things ...

[Cornucopia]

I hope I'm not getting too far OT, but I've had similar experiences with Canopus in their web support site.
Trying to get new drivers because original PC mobo died and upgraded from win2k to Xpsp2. Kept getting a stupid endless loop with re-registration/activation/mobo hash business, and nobody there cared to help, either via web/email/phone.
I've got 2 cards, 2 editing packages, 3 plugins packages and a ADVC converter box---I like their technology, but their business sucks, and I'll have a hard time using any more of their stuff...
In fact, I've already switched over to a different workflow rather than have to waste my time with their BS anymore.

Scott

[steveryan]

It's not just Canopus. My Linksys router broke last december, returned it to them, new one arrived last week, died after half an hour, rang to ask if they could send me a new one asap, no chance, the broken one has to be returned. Bastards.