Circuit City invites wrath of the MPAA by copying DVDs

[akrako1]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060804-7420.html

Fair Use advocates, take notice. Circuit City is apparently putting its neck on the line to provide customers with DVD transfer services. The company is offering a "DVD video transfer service" that for all intents and purposes is illegal. The company will take commercial DVDs and rip them for use on portable devices for $10 for 1 DVD, $20 for 3 DVDs or $30 for 5 DVDs. That is, until their legal department hears what's happening.

[ROF]

Circuit City is the losers tech store. This is only one example.

[akrako1]

Because 'losers' would want the movie they legally purchased tranfered to a portable device? As much as I don't like large corporations, this still seems like a move to help the low-tech consumer, and to screw over the MPAA.. Sounds good to me.

Maybe someone pro-DRM like ROF, can have a little more piece-of-mind getting their movies converted for portable devices at a 'reputable' brick-and-morter store - no 'illegal' software to install, or encryption to directly hack.

[ROF]

Because 'losers' would want the movie they legally purchased tranfered to a portable device?

You own the DVD, you do not own the content of the DVD. Read the agreement and by losers I meant the store not it's customers.

[Noahtuck]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060804-7420.html

Fair Use advocates, take notice. Circuit City is apparently putting its neck on the line to provide customers with DVD transfer services. The company is offering a "DVD video transfer service" that for all intents and purposes is illegal. The company will take commercial DVDs and rip them for use on portable devices for $10 for 1 DVD, $20 for 3 DVDs or $30 for 5 DVDs. That is, until their legal department hears what's happening.

COOL!!!!!! 8)
I'd never use it because i know how to transfer or convert to any format i might need.

Because 'losers' would want the movie they legally purchased tranfered to a portable device?

You own the DVD, you do not own the content of the DVD. Read the agreement and by losers I meant the store not it's customers.

Then you better stop backing up all those dvd's to DL-R media

[ROF]

Because 'losers' would want the movie they legally purchased tranfered to a portable device?

You own the DVD, you do not own the content of the DVD. Read the agreement and by losers I meant the store not it's customers.

Then you better stop backing up all those dvd's to DL-R media.

What's DL-R media? I don't think I've backed up a single movie this year anyways. I take care of my purchases so I have no need to back them up. It would be a waste of media to do so. When I see a post here or other places where someone has a problem I will back up to one of -rw media just so I can help this person by telling them what worked for me but backing up movies are a waste of time and media unless you are storing your originals or backups in a safety deposit box someplace.

[akrako1]

What's DL-R

DL = Dual Layer
-R = well, DVD-R media

Not too hard to figure out, especially from someone like you who frequents this board. Are you just being a pain-in-the-ass?

Oh, and by the way, even backing up to a -RW disc, and then deleting right away still violates the DMCA. Thief!

[adam]

If this is true (could easily be a prank) than Circuit City may have purchased a license for it, in which case you can be sure that the ripped version will have DRM attached to it.

If they are just going out on a limb and trying to get away with this without a license than this move may be even more of a mistake than their Divx format. I don't care what your personal beliefs are about this, 321 Studio's appellate court ruling says that you cannot do this very thing. Unless they manage to have that case overturned, they are going to be paying damages for every one of these transfers they perform and $10 ain't gonna cover that.

[ROF]

What's DL-R

DL = Dual Layer
-R = well, DVD-R media

Not too hard to figure out, especially from someone like you who frequents this board. Are you just being a pain-in-the-ass?

Oh, and by the way, even backing up to a -RW disc, and then deleting right away still violates the DMCA. Thief!

Not at all. If you read the DMCA my purpose is for academic purposes. and yes, my comment on what DL-R was sarcasm. Sorry you missed it.

[Noahtuck]

I don't think I've backed up a single movie this year anyways. I take care of my purchases so I have no need to back them up. It would be a waste of media to do so.

Funny... i seem to recall many many times in general you posting about buying DL media & using DL media for backups because you don't like to destroy the content by running it through programs like dvd shrink.......

[Noahtuck]

If this is true (could easily be a prank) than Circuit City may have purchased a license for it, in which case you can be sure that the ripped version will have DRM attached to it.

If they are just going out on a limb and trying to get away with this without a license than this move may be even more of a mistake than their Divx format. I don't care what your personal beliefs are about this, 321 Studio's appellate court ruling says that you cannot do this very thing. Unless they manage to have that case overturned, they are going to be paying damages for every one of these transfers they perform and $10 ain't gonna cover that.

You got that right, $10 aint gonna cover it if they end up not being able to do it or get in trouble for it.
It is interesting though as i always thought it was pretty stupid to be able to do it yourself but not be able to take a dvd/cd you own and have someone else transfer it to your ipod or whatever because you don't have the knowledge or equipment to do it yourself.

The prank theory is valid though, i'd like to see if this is true & if my local CC know's about this or is offering it ?

According to a promotional plaque photographed by a Consumerist reader, Circuit City requires that transfers come "from an original copy of your DVD collection," but they have no way of verifying that. Even if they could, we don't expect the MPAA to care.

Well it's a photo from a reader.......

And how could you not tell if it was an original copy ?
They can't tell if it's a pressed dvd or cd ??

Maybe they can't tell of you own it or not, you could be borrowing your buddies dvd/cd, but that does not matter because once the original owner get's it transfered it would be no big deal to transfer say the video file to another ipod or dvdr, because the original has already been decrypted, copied, ect.

[somebodeez]

Personally, I wouldn't pay to have my DVDs encoded to another format because I can do it myself but this might be nice for those who can't for whatever reason (don't know how, no time or whatever)

I don't think that backing up my movies is a waste of time.
It's nice to have a copies for those long road trips and not worry because the originals are at home.
That is a part of how I take care of the DVDs that I purchase.

[adam]

It is interesting though as i always thought it was pretty stupid to be able to do it yourself but not be able to take a dvd/cd you own and have someone else transfer it to your ipod or whatever because you don't have the knowledge or equipment to do it yourself.

In the US its illegal to do it yourself as well.

[Noahtuck]

What's DL-R

DL = Dual Layer
-R = well, DVD-R media

Not too hard to figure out, especially from someone like you who frequents this board. Are you just being a pain-in-the-ass?

Oh, and by the way, even backing up to a -RW disc, and then deleting right away still violates the DMCA. Thief!

Personally, I wouldn't pay to have my DVDs encoded to another format because I can do it myself but this might be nice for those who can't for whatever reason (don't know how, no time or whatever)

I don't think that backing up my movies is a waste of time.
It's nice to have a copies for those long road trips and not worry because the originals are at home.
That is a part of how I take care of the DVDs that I purchase.

Yep, i have a ton of import dvd's that are very rare and will prob. never be released again on dvd that i back up and store the originals in my bedroom closet.

I have alot that i have converted from PAL to NTSC and keep the backups and conversions in full cases in the living room to watch & to take away with me and they still come bak perfect, but if something did happen, well, i still have the original's nice and safe at home 8)

[ROF]

I don't think I've backed up a single movie this year anyways. I take care of my purchases so I have no need to back them up. It would be a waste of media to do so.

Funny... i seem to recall many many times in general you posting about buying DL media & using DL media for backups because you don't like to destroy the content by running it through programs like dvd shrink.......

If I were to actually backup movies, Yes I would use DL media, but in most cases it is home made movies which are usually quite larger and would not fit on single layer media without destroying it by removing select bits and pieces by running it through shrink. Why bother recording in a higher resolution if I am just going to destroy it by shrinking it?

But in most cases, my DL media(or any burning for that matter) is for data purposes. Which is exactly why I support the next generation media.

[MOVIEGEEK]

It was a misprint,CC only does homemade VHS->DVD:
http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/archives/001053.html

[Noahtuck]

It is interesting though as i always thought it was pretty stupid to be able to do it yourself but not be able to take a dvd/cd you own and have someone else transfer it to your ipod or whatever because you don't have the knowledge or equipment to do it yourself.

In the US its illegal to do it yourself as well.

And i thought that was what all the hoopla was about ? because you were allowed to personaly back up disc's you have purchased for yourself but they (movie/music industry) don't want you too because they always assume you are pirating things or to stop the pirates
That's why sony tried to limit you to how many times you could back up your own cd's instead of not allowing you to at all, or they advertise how you can transfer your music and movies to your ipod, ect. ect. ect.

It was a misprint,CC only does homemade VHS->DVD:
http://sethf.com/infothought/blog/archives/001053.html

Well i like in that blog it states,

According to Bill Cimino, Circuit City Director of Corporate Communications:

"The sign is incorrect and not authorized and we are in the process of making sure the sign is removed"

"We offer two services. In a small number of stores, we will transfer your commercial CD's to a DVD, and in other stores, we will transfer your home VHS to a DVD. We do not transfer pre-recorded VHS or DVD, to DVD"

But they will rip & trasnfer store bought music cd's.......
Don't they consider that illegal also

And who's to say how accurate that "blog" is also... hell, i could start one and write anything i want :P

[adam]

And i thought that was what all the hoopla was about ? because you were allowed to personaly back up disc's you have purchased for yourself but they (movie/music industry) don't want you too because they always assume you are pirating things or to stop the pirates
That's why sony tried to limit you to how many times you could back up your own cd's instead of not allowing you to at all, or they advertise how you can transfer your music and movies to your ipod, ect. ect. ect.

That may be the case with music CDs but not with DVDs. Your right to backup audio CDs comes under section 1001. There is no such exception made for DVDs. There is no right to backup your DVDs in the US.

[ROF]

And i thought that was what all the hoopla was about ? because you were allowed to personaly back up disc's you have purchased for yourself but they (movie/music industry) don't want you too because they always assume you are pirating things or to stop the pirates
That's why sony tried to limit you to how many times you could back up your own cd's instead of not allowing you to at all, or they advertise how you can transfer your music and movies to your ipod, ect. ect. ect.

That may be the case with music CDs but not with DVDs. Your right to backup audio CDs comes under section 1001. There is no such exception made for DVDs. There is no right to backup your DVDs in the US.

Thus the copyright notice which appears on each and every copyrighted purchase or movie broadcast. Reading is Fundamental.

[EAO]

Because 'losers' would want the movie they legally purchased tranfered to a portable device?

You own the DVD, you do not own the content of the DVD. Read the agreement and by losers I meant the store not it's customers.

Then you better stop backing up all those dvd's to DL-R media.

What's DL-R media? I don't think I've backed up a single movie this year anyways. I take care of my purchases so I have no need to back them up. It would be a waste of media to do so. When I see a post here or other places where someone has a problem I will back up to one of -rw media just so I can help this person by telling them what worked for me but backing up movies are a waste of time and media unless you are storing your originals or backups in a safety deposit box someplace.

Am to understand you've backed up retail movie's? Every post I've read of yours pontificates on your ethical and legal stand against this practice. It is illegal - regardless of reason - to back up... even to RW to 'help' someone isn't it?

I will admit to only reading your posts over the last year give or take. So I don't know if this behavior is one you no longer do based on your principles... or are you a hypocrite?

[ROF]

Because 'losers' would want the movie they legally purchased tranfered to a portable device?

You own the DVD, you do not own the content of the DVD. Read the agreement and by losers I meant the store not it's customers.

Then you better stop backing up all those dvd's to DL-R media.

What's DL-R media? I don't think I've backed up a single movie this year anyways. I take care of my purchases so I have no need to back them up. It would be a waste of media to do so. When I see a post here or other places where someone has a problem I will back up to one of -rw media just so I can help this person by telling them what worked for me but backing up movies are a waste of time and media unless you are storing your originals or backups in a safety deposit box someplace.

Am to understand you've backed up retail movie's? Every post I've read of yours pontificates on your ethical and legal stand against this practice. It is illegal - regardless of reason - to back up... even to RW to 'help' someone isn't it?

I will admit to only reading your posts over the last year give or take. So I don't know if this behavior is one you no longer do based on your principles... or are you a hypocrite?

How this topic became all about me I do not know. Guess some people have nothing better do. To those people I would say please read the DMCA and learn what exception are included within.

[Noahtuck]

Thus the copyright notice which appears on each and every copyrighted purchase or movie broadcast. Reading is Fundamental.

Yeah well... i have a bunch of store bought music cd's that have the FBI warning logo on them also, so there Mr. "i don't back up movies because it's illegal" although i'm sure i'm not the only one who remember's seeing your post's about "you" using DL to back up so you don't destroy the content by shrinking it

And by that theory then adam is wrong and you can't even backup music disc's just because the warning is there and i read it

@ Adam,
I thought it was that they were saying it's illegal to break whatever copy protection they use on the movie dvd's ?
So it's legal to back up your own media it's just illegal to break the copy protection they impliment.
Oh well, no one has ever been busted that i ever heard of for recording tv shows on their vcr and keeping them, although it's deemed "illegal" in the last 30 years so i doubt anyone will ever be busted for making a backup of other media they legally own.

And before "someone" chimes in about that that, i'm not talking about the people who sell ton's of homemade copys of movies and tv shows

Am to understand you've backed up retail movie's? Every post I've read of yours pontificates on your ethical and legal stand against this practice. It is illegal - regardless of reason - to back up... even to RW to 'help' someone isn't it?

I will admit to only reading your posts over the last year give or take. So I don't know if this behavior is one you no longer do based on your principles... or are you a hypocrite?

Nah, not hypocrite, more like BS'er
IE: Full of crap.
Nuff Said!
Disclaimer
This is my personal opinion and in no way reflect's the view's of this site, Admins, mods or any members of this board
:P :P

[EAO]

Why did this thread turn into you???

Because you are always posting your ideals on retail DVD copyright into everyone else's thread. This is your right. But I am 'calling you' on what seems like hyocritical behavior. Reap what you sow.

Don't change the subject and deflect answering my questions btw You brought this on yourself by preaching this 'gospel' in all lot of threads.

Have you backed up retail DVD's for any reason? Have you kept a copy of these backups? And if so was this behavior before or after you preached in everyone's threads on the ethical and legal wrongness of such action?

Mods: I'm done thread jacking. I just find it irritating when someone preaches ethics to everyone but them themselves.

[ROF]

Question: How is it hypocritical or even funnier BSing to inform others that what they are doing is illegal and can result in jail time and hefty fines even if the person informing others is doing the same thing?

Is a drug addict who tells fellow drug addicts they can go to jail for what they are doing as a police car passes by being hypcritical or is the drug addict being honest by warning others that what they do is illegal and that they should at least put the crack pipe in their pocket while in public? Some might say yes it is hypocritical, but in my view it is just someone being honest and trying to help prevent something terrible from happening to someone else.

I am sure nobody wants to hear "Drop the Decrypter and put your hands on your head. "

[Dv8ted2]

So it's legal to back up your own media it's just illegal to break the copy protection they impliment.

Correct, but because almost every retail dvd has encryption, we are all breaking the law.



I prefer to call it civil disobedience.

Illston wrote that federal law made it illegal to sell products that--like 321 Studios' software--break through DVDs' antipiracy technology, even if consumers do have a legal right to make personal copies of their movies.

source

[adam]

And by that theory then adam is wrong and you can't even backup music disc's just because the warning is there and i read it

FBI warnings have no legal effect, all they can do is inform you of applicable laws. The only FBI warnings I have ever seen on any form of media are ones that inform you that unauthorized copying is an offense and is punishable. You can have a right to backup music CDs and yet still engage in unauthorized copying of those discs. Take a look at section 17 USCS 1001. It specifies that you may use digital audio recording devices to backup music CDs to digital audio media. The Committee notes also specify reasonable uses for backing up including making archival copies and making a copy for your home and each car you own. Stay within the confines of that law and you are fine.

@ Adam,
I thought it was that they were saying it's illegal to break whatever copy protection they use on the movie dvd's ?
So it's legal to back up your own media it's just illegal to break the copy protection they impliment.

No. There is no law that allows an archival copy of an audio-visual work. There is such a law for musical works and there is one for computer software, but not audio-visual works. Many people believe Fair Use allows it but no court has ever ruled on it and the Copyright Office has been petitioned four separate times to recognize this and each time they have declined. Forget about protection on the disc. That is not the issue. The archival copy itself is prohibited, period.

Now the DMCA does make the bypassing of encryption a separate infringement, yes. But there is no catch-22 that says it is legal to backup a DVD but illegal to break the encryption. The DMCA in fact has a safe harbor provision that says that it cannot be used to deny or diminish any other right provided for under Copyright law. So if archival copies are allowed than bypassing the protection is as well, UNLESS the law that grants the archival right says otherwise, (ex: streaming for educational uses.) But I can assure you, there is no right to make an unauthorized, perfect complete digital copy of an audio-visual work, for any reason.

@ROF. You are aware of the DMCA safe harbor provision and that's good. But unless you are only making partial copies (few mins worth?) and have a strong educational or scientific basis for those copies, than it is not exempted under Fair Use. I kinda doubt that ripping a DVD for the purpose of helping someone else rip theirs would qualify.

[adam]

Illston wrote that federal law made it illegal to sell products that--like 321 Studios' software--break through DVDs' antipiracy technology, even if consumers do have a legal right to make ]personal copies of their movies.

Dv8ted2, that is a complete misquote on the part of that author. First off, as the judge said herself, she never even addressed the issue of Fair Use copying since she did not need to in order to find that 321 Studio's was infringing. She never ruled on personal copying at all. In a legal opinion that's called dicta. Its filler, it has no legal effect. All the judge is saying is what her ruling DOESN'T cover.

More importantly, the author of this article is completely taking her statement out of context. She never even used the words "personal copies" and that phrase doesn't even have any meaning under Copyright Law. What the judge did say was that "Legal downstream use of the copyrighted material by customers is not a defense to the software manufacturer's violation of the provisions (of copyright law.)" She never defined what constitues such legal copying, because it wasn't at issue in the case. She is broadly alluding to Fair Use, that's all. Fair Use does allow many forms of copying, and 321 Studio's software could be used for those purposes. But Fair Use does not allow archival copies and the judge's statement wasn't implying that it did.

[ROF]

@ROF. You are aware of the DMCA safe harbor provision and that's good. But unless you are only making partial copies (few mins worth?) and have a strong educational or scientific basis for those copies, than it is not exempted under Fair Use. I kinda doubt that ripping a DVD for the purpose of helping someone else rip theirs would qualify.

I kinda doubt that too, but at least it might help someone here.

[EAO]

Again you miss the point. Is it deliberate?

And you say some may say hypocritical... Some?

I'd say open the dictonary and look up the word 'hypocrite' and your picture would be next to it as a visual example.

[ROF]

Again you miss the point. Is it deliberate?

And you say some may say hypocritical... Some?

I'd say open the dictonary and look up the word 'hypocrite' and your picture would be next to it as a visual example.

Look up Forum Troll and you will see your family porttrait.