No subtitles in bonus material

[xsrossiter]

Hello,

I have a DVD that contains a 30 minute bonus segment along with the main feature movie. When converting the VOB's (extracted with DVD Decrypter in IFO mode) for the main feature to avi with AutoGK the subtitles are there but not when doing the same for the bonus VOB's. I am not sure of the reason but I can see in the agk_tmp folders for each conversion a .sub size of 2538 kb for the main and 0 kb for the bonus.

DVD Decrypter is producing a different DVD VTS_01 - Stream Information.txt file for each extraction, specifically on the first line "0x20 - Subtitle - English - [SubPicture 01: Normal] / LBA: 21034 / PTS: 00:01:15.989 / Delay: 75708ms" for main material and "0x20 - Subtitle - English - [SubPicture 01: Normal] / LBA: 2047889 / PTS: 00:00:00.280 / Delay: 0ms" for bonus segment.

Is there a specific setting or work around to get AutoGK to place the proper permanent subtitles into the bonus segment?

Thanks, Steve

[kschang]

Dumb question: are you SURE there are subtitles in the bonus material?

[manono]

My thought as well. The sub that DVD Decrypoter shows could be empty. When you play the DVD, does the bonus track play with subs? The fact that the bonus is in the same VTS as the main feature makes me pretty sure the bonus sub file is either empty or non-existent.

[xsrossiter]

Yes, there are subtitles available for the bonus material when playing the DVD.

>The fact that the bonus is in the same VTS as the main feature makes me pretty sure the bonus sub file is either empty or non-existent.

I may not have have expressed my self quite right. DVD Decrypter produces a file DVD VTS_01 - Stream Information.txt for each run, whether for the segments encompassing the main file or those for the monus material. For the two runs I did this same named file had a different first line:

Main - 0x20 - Subtitle - English - [SubPicture 01: Normal] / LBA: 21034 / PTS: 00:01:15.989 / Delay: 75708ms
Bonus - 0x20 - Subtitle - English - [SubPicture 01: Normal] / LBA: 2047889 / PTS: 00:00:00.280 / Delay: 0ms

With my limited knowledge I just see the bonus subtitles begginiing further down the LBA line - 2047889 vs 21034, but this assessment meay be just giving you all something to laugh at. I have no real idea what these two lines are indicating.

If I run DVD Decrypter in File mode it produces a series VTS_01_1 to VTS_01_7 and the bonus material begins within the same VTS_01_05 that the main feature ends. This may be why when using the IFO setting it losses track of where the subtitles are becasue it produces a new series spanning only VTS_01_1 to VTS_01_4.

Thanks, Steve

[manono]

OK, I understand now. Sorry for the wrong guess before. You gave some pretty good clues there. I think now that the subs are there, but are a continuation of the subs for the main movie. That means that the timestamps, rather than starting when the first dialog for the demuxed bonus track does, start after the movie does. For example, say the movie is 90 minutes long, and the first dialog in the bonus feature is at the 1 minute mark. The timestamps, rather than beginning at 1 minute, will begin at 91 minutes. Understand? You have to reset the timestamps. You do this with VobSub Cutter, which comes included in the VobSub package. You can confirm (or disprove) by opening the IDX for the Bonus Subs (using NotePad) and checking to see where the timestamps begin.

Do you have the IDX/SUB file for the bonus subs? I assume that you have the bonus track decrypted using DVD Decrypter in IFO Mode. Open the IFO in VobSub Configure and extract the IDX/SUB. If you're keeping the subs external, then no problem. Just fix the timestamps. If you're burning in the subs, I'm not positive how to correct the problem. I think it involves renaming the IDX/SUB to the same as AutoGK does, and then substituting the fixed ones for the ones that AutoGK is using.

[xsrossiter]

I may be missing the point and I probably better take some time learning about subtitles before going much further with this. The Main.idx file starts like this:

# VobSub index file, v7 (do not modify this line!)
#
# To repair desyncronization, you can insert gaps this way:
# (it usually happens after vob id changes)
#
# delay: [sign]hh:mms:ms
#
# Where:
# [sign]: +, - (optional)
# hh: hours (0 <= hh)
# mm/ss: minutes/seconds (0 <= mm/ss <= 59)
# ms: milliseconds (0 <= ms <= 999)
#
# Note: You can't position a sub before the previous with a negative value.
#
# You can also modify timestamps or delete a few subs you don't like.
# Just make sure they stay in increasing order.


# Settings

# Original frame size
size: 720x480

# Origin, relative to the upper-left corner, can be overloaded by aligment
org: 0, 0

# Image scaling (hor,ver), origin is at the upper-left corner or at the alignment coord (x, y)
scale: 100%, 100%

# Alpha blending
alpha: 100%

# Smoothing for very blocky images (use OLD for no filtering)
smooth: OFF

# In millisecs
fadein/out: 50, 50

# Force subtitle placement relative to (org.x, org.y)
align: OFF at LEFT TOP

# For correcting non-progressive desync. (in millisecs or hh:mms:ms)
# Note: Not effective in DirectVobSub, use "delay: ... " instead.
time offset: 0

# ON: displays only forced subtitles, OFF: shows everything
forced subs: OFF

# The original palette of the DVD
palette: 0000e1, e83f07, 000000, fdfdfd, 6f9edb, f4d1f4, faff1a, 095d76, 7c7c7c, e0e0e0, 701f03, 077307, 00006c, cc0ae9, d2ab0f, 730972

# Custom colors (transp idxs and the four colors)
custom colors: OFF, tridx: 0000, colors: 000000, 000000, 000000, 000000

# Language index in use
langidx: 0

# English
id: en, index: 0
# Decomment next line to activate alternative name in DirectVobSub / Windows Media Player 6.x
# alt: English
# Vob/Cell ID: 1, 1 (PTS: 0)
timestamp: 00:01:15:708, filepos: 000000000
timestamp: 00:02:21:341, filepos: 000001000
.
.
.
timestamp: 01:19:32:100, filepos: 000278800
timestamp: 01:19:36:004, filepos: 000279800

Whereas the Bonus.idx is like this

# VobSub index file, v7 (do not modify this line!)
#
# To repair desyncronization, you can insert gaps this way:
# (it usually happens after vob id changes)
#
# delay: [sign]hh:mms:ms
#
# Where:
# [sign]: +, - (optional)
# hh: hours (0 <= hh)
# mm/ss: minutes/seconds (0 <= mm/ss <= 59)
# ms: milliseconds (0 <= ms <= 999)
#
# Note: You can't position a sub before the previous with a negative value.
#
# You can also modify timestamps or delete a few subs you don't like.
# Just make sure they stay in increasing order.


# Settings

# Original frame size
size: 720x480

# Origin, relative to the upper-left corner, can be overloaded by aligment
org: 0, 0

# Image scaling (hor,ver), origin is at the upper-left corner or at the alignment coord (x, y)
scale: 100%, 100%

# Alpha blending
alpha: 100%

# Smoothing for very blocky images (use OLD for no filtering)
smooth: OFF

# In millisecs
fadein/out: 50, 50

# Force subtitle placement relative to (org.x, org.y)
align: OFF at LEFT TOP

# For correcting non-progressive desync. (in millisecs or hh:mms:ms)
# Note: Not effective in DirectVobSub, use "delay: ... " instead.
time offset: 0

# ON: displays only forced subtitles, OFF: shows everything
forced subs: OFF

# The original palette of the DVD
palette: 0000e1, e83f07, 000000, fdfdfd, 6f9edb, f4d1f4, faff1a, 095d76, 7c7c7c, e0e0e0, 701f03, 077307, 00006c, cc0ae9, d2ab0f, 730972

# Custom colors (transp idxs and the four colors)
custom colors: OFF, tridx: 0000, colors: 000000, 000000, 000000, 000000

# Language index in use
langidx: 0

And that is where the file ends, the obvious thing being that there is no timestamp information. Thanks for your help to this point and I will get a little better educated on subtitles and VOB files.

[manono]

Hi-

So, back to having no subs in the bonus section?

OK, this should uncover them. You still have the DVD? Decrypt all over again, this time using DVD Decrypter in File Mode (up at the top, Mode->File). This will put the entire DVD on the hard drive. Open the IFO in VobSub Configure and get the subs in IDX/SUB format. After you're done, you should have the entire thing, main video followed immediately by the bonus subs. You can open the IDX and see how the timestamps for the bonus follow after the end of the main video. You can open the IDX in SubResynch (also included in the VobSub package) and read the lines of the subtitles, noting where the main video ends and the bonus begins. Then, after making a backup copy of the subs, delete all the timestamps for the main video, and using SubCutter, adjust the timestamps for the bonus, so the subs begin when the dialog does. One way to find exactly where the dialog begins is to open the bonus AVI in VDubMod and note the exact time that the first dialog appears, when the lips start moving, maybe. Then make the first timestamp for that time. It may take a couple of tries to get it right, but in principle it's not too hard.

Hope it works. Good luck.

[xsrossiter]

>If you're burning in the subs, I'm not positive how to correct the problem.
>I think it involves renaming the IDX/SUB to the same as AutoGK does, and then substituting the fixed ones for the ones that AutoGK is using.

Alright, I found the subtitles for the Bonus segment using VSRip against PG6, which is what I selected for AutoGK to use and it extracted the video and audio but for some reason did not find and extract the subtitles. So, I extracted the IDX/SUB files with VobSub Configure and then I could see them with SubResync. The timing is probably OK since SubResync has the timings starting at 00:00:00:000 and going on from there rather than at some time beyond the end of the main feature.

Now the trick is to run AutoGK and get it to use this set of IDX/SUB files rather than the erroneous ones it will produce if I run it against the IFO it created for PG6 which has no subtitle timing information beyond the main feature. I was thinking to rename the VSRip extractions to the same name AutoGK produces and put them in the agk_tmp folder but it would probably just overwrite these when I ran it again. Is there a way to get AutoGK to start at the point where it pulls the audio, video, and subtitle information into one avi using the renamed files I have put into the agk_tmp folder? In other words, I have the audio, video, and subtitle files extracted and now I need to just fuse them back together into an avi with AutoGK or some other program.

-OR-

I have the finished avi file without subtitles and I just need to hard burn the ones VobSub Configure extracted. I bet there is a guide somewhere for this; better get looking.

Thanks, Steve

[manono]

You know, I know about VSRip, and have used it a few times myself when VobSub Configure, for one reason or another, didn't work. I apologize for not mentioning it, and good going for discovering it and using it successfully.

You can't stick in the good subs at the muxing stage (or as you put it, "when it pulls the audio, video, and subtitle information into one avi". The subs are getting burned into, or embedded in, the movie. This takes place during the encoding process. You'll have to make the switch after the audio conversion, but before the encoding starts. I don't know the exact order, but if it's audio, D2V generation, subs extraction, compress test, encoding, first pass followed by second pass, muxing, then you have to make a fast switch just before the compress test starts. You can check the log it generated before to find the exact order it does things.

It may not really be possible. I just don't know.

By the way, any chance you can leave the subs external? If you have VobSub installed, and if you name the subs the same as the movie (Movie.avi, Movie.idx, and Movie.sub), you should be able to see the subs when playing the movie. Most software players support DirectVobSub. Try it. When you start the movie, if you see a curved green arrow show up in the Sys Tray, you'll know it's going to work.

[xsrossiter]

If you have VobSub installed, and if you name the subs the same as the movie (Movie.avi, Movie.idx, and Movie.sub), you should be able to see the subs when playing the movie. Most software players support DirectVobSub.

Yes, that worked just as you said. I was also able to burn them in following these directions: How to add permanent subtitles with VobSub

Well, job done thanks to your help. My next adventure, doing the whole process in VirtualDub direct from the VOB's that DVD Decrypter puts out. Hmmm...

Steve

[manono]

Good going again. If AutoGK couldn't do the job, then VDub can.

My next adventure, doing the whole process in VirtualDub direct from the VOB's that DVD Decrypter puts out. Hmmm...

That's not really the best way to do it, dropping the vobs into VDub. Much better (and way faster) is frameserving using AviSynth. The only tricky part is the AviSynth script generation. You can use AutoGK's big brother, the much more fully featured Gordian Knot for that. The usual process is to open the vobs in DGIndex and to create a D2V project file which you then open in GKnot. You go to the resolution tab to crop and resize. Then, you can make the .avs (AviSynth script file), skip the rest of the GKnot process, and open that .avs directly in VDub(Mod) to choose a codec, set it up, and encode. This allows you to use Fast Recompress in VDub, rather than the slower and inferior Full Processing. I've collected a bunch of guides as a sticky over at Doom9. I'm partial to Rita's site and guides:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=92089

If you're planning on getting seriously into encoding AVI as a hobby, it's really in your best interests to learn basic AviSynth scripting and usage. Here's their site:

http://www.avisynth.org/

which seems to be down at the moment.

[xsrossiter]

Thanks for leading me through this. My number one priority is to retain the quality as close to the original as possible, despite the extra time or file space it may consume. In looking at the logs generated by AutoGK I can see that learning scripts will be a step in that direction since I see it running:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\autocrop.dl l")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\RemoveGrain SSE2.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\kerneldeint .dll")

all of which I would probably want more control over. Ok guides, I'm ready.

Steve

[kschang]

Actually, AutoGK does do that demuxing into D2V and all that. I've seen the temp files it created. So yes, definitely look over all those scripts, then check for references online or by looking in AVSEdit's helpfile.

[manono]

Hi-

Personally, I've never had much use for the AutoCrop. I'd much rather look at the video and do my own cropping and resizing (pixel crop in GKnot).. That's why I suggested opening the D2V in GKnot so you can look at the video to see the crop and resize in action. You'll get the DGMPEGDec package (comes included if you install GKnot). It comes with DGIndex and the DGDecode.dll, both of which you'll need for AviSynth frameserving when making AVI from DVD. But it also has 3 very helpful documents included, especially the QuickStartGuide, which will have you making your own scripts in no time.

And as kschang said, you can learn a lot about scripting by studying the scripts that AutoGK generates. Me, I have half a dozen template scripts that I use, just adjusting the paths, crop and resize values and other filtering. It saves creating each script from scratch for every movie. VDubMod also has the ability to save template scripts. DGIndex has the ability to generate a basic script for you when creating the D2V, which you can then modify as you like. Although I've never used it, I second kschang's recommendation of AvsEdit. It's supposed to be a real timesaver. Scripting isn't nearly as hard as it's sometimes made out to be.

[xsrossiter]

A little off to the side of the topic - AutoGK installed VirtualDub but I see mentions of VirtualDubMod. If I install this will AutoGK mind or will the VirtualDiubMod installation simply add files to the existing VirtualDub folders without confusing AutoGK?

[manono]

My AutoGK (Ver 2.27) has VDubMod installed. You can have multiple versions of VDub installed without problem. I've had both VDubMod and Nandub (I have no use for VDub) installed for years with no problems. When you install a different one, it'll be to a completely different folder. They won't conflict. Actually, I just noticed that I have 2 different versions of VDubMod installed, one for AutoGK and the other for GKnot. I forgot about that.

By the way, while reading on another forum, I discovered something that, had I known about it several days ago, would have easily solved your subtitle problem. AutoGK has a secret subtitle option. You could have added those bonus subs that you got from VSRip with no problem at all. After opening your project in AutoGK, hit Ctrl-F8. Right underneath the Input File line, a new line will open up labelled External Subs. If you browse to the subs, you'll first have the option to open text based subs, such as SRT or SSA format subs. But it also has a drop down box that allows you to use external IDX/SUB files. Learn something new every day. Too late now though, I guess.