I'd be totally ok with burnproof DVDs...

[Sillyname]

If they streamlined the process of sending in our scratched ones for brand new replacements. I mean paying postage, too. Perhaps including a mailing sleeve with every DVD?

[ROF]

I couldn't agree more, my pen just ran out of ink. I think Bic should supply me with a new one.

The air filter in my car recently needed to be replaced. I think the car manufacturer should pay to replace it.

I had to buy a new mini-blind last month after the previous one faded due to sunlight. I think walmart should have to buy me a new one.

My dog chewed the ears off a stuffed toy we bought for him at christmas. I think they company should replace it.

Never gonna happen. At some point you have to take responsibility for maintaining your products.

[vitualis]

Here, I will have to agree with ROF.

However, I also feel that the consumer has a right to maintain a personal backup of their DVDs. I believe, here we disagree.

My reasoning goes that when we buy a DVD, we are by majority purchasing the "intellectual property", not the physical item. The very reason people want a "backup" is that the "physical item" that the IP comes on is fragile.

The IP of something else like a book isn't likely going to be rendered "unreadable" under normal usage. I do not think that it is unreasonable for people to expect that a DVD they have purchased should remain readable for the expected lifetime of the disc, and if this is not the case, then they should be able to make a backup without breaching intellectual property laws.

Basically, if copyright laws are going to be extended to a ridculous number of years (now lifetime + 75 years?), then I think that there is an onus on media companies that they must guarantee that there will not be failure of the delivery medium for that entire period of time.

Furthermore, all DRM schemes should by law be designed with in-built obsolescence as it otherwise means that the IP is protected "forever", completely contrary to copyright laws.

Regards.

[Sillyname]

Then they should be sandwiched between TWO layers of bulletproof/scratchproof glass.

I think that was what they originally were going to make CDs out of, birdproof glass. Like on airplanes. But they forgot how to be chivalrous towards the user.

[TooLFooL]

while true it is your responsibility to take care of your dvd's, the manufacturers DO spend quite a bit of money on copy-protection technology. ultimately, it would probably be cheaper for them to offer a replacement program...right?

[vitualis]

Probably not. If they can convince a few people to purchase a second copy when the first gets damaged then it would be fine.

Regards.

[b1tchm4gn3t]

Im not lieing here when I say all my dvd's (including the originals and backups) are not scratched. And like many ppl here in this forum I have hundreds. I know ppl that have movie collections and every damn disk is scratched. I wont let that happen. Everyone is so damn irresponsibe that I know that I made it a known fact around here NOT to ask to borrow any dvd's from me. I swear I dont know one damn person that takes care of shit like that. Taking good care of dvd's is pretty damn easy to do, you just have to want to do it. My son, since he was about 5 years old (almost 12 now) scratched one dvd in his life loading it into a ps2 to watch it, and I came unglued and he got that 'taking care of shit' speech. Not one fucked up since.

[ROF]

@b1tchm4gn3t

If more people did as you and I do their kids would understand respect for theirs and other peoples property. CDs and DVDs are fragile but not so fragile that you need to always keep them in a "clean room" environment or never handle them. Through normal use you shouldn't have scratched discs or otherwise unplayable discs. MY son learned last year about DVDs. He decided that he was mad at one of his DVDs for whatever reason and flung it across the room. Needless to say in the condition it was in after hitting the wall it didn't fit properly into the DVD player. It was one of his favorite discs. Did he have a backup? Should he have been given one? The answer is NO to both questions. He was told that when we went to the video store and it was kids rental night he could pick that one out but neither Mom or Dad was going to buy him another one because he should have taken proper care of his in the first place. This happened in February. Santa Claus' elves made him a new one and the expression on his face when he opened it was priceless. Without anyone in the family saying anything he said out loud thank you Santa and promised he would take care of this one. I think he learned his lesson because he has plenty of other DVDs and CDs and has always since his anger incident been taking really good care of them.

BTW, he's not of school age yet and understands responsibility and the consequences of your actions. He understands that proper care of your toys will provide for plenty of enjoyment. If anyones kids can't learn this the parents either haven't taught them to be responsible or have given in to everything their child wants. It is OK to say no. Your kids will appreciate and respect others more if they understand that their actions have consequences.

@toolfool

Why should anyone get lifetime replacements? My cars usually last 15-20 years. After it's lifetime the auto industry should just give me a replacement? I bought a calendar last year and used it for twelve months. Should the book store give me a 2006 replacement calendar? Last night I was wrapping a birthday gift for a friend and I finished the roll of scoth tape. Should the office supply store replace my roll?

I've been a smoker for several decades I think the tobacco industry should replace my lungs. In the long run it would be cheaper for them to offer lung replacement surgery instead of payinf frivilous lawsuits brought on by moronic smokers whose family member killed themselves smoking something that is clearly labeled as causing a disease that will kill you. The arguement for the music industry to offer free replacements is just silly. Take care of your product and you have no worries. I've got vinyl that's half a century old and it still plays today.

[b1tchm4gn3t]

well said ROF, I agree with that 100%

[Sillyname]

I was talking very loosely about the consequences of having children around DVDs. Perhaps I should farm them out to child labor facilities to help pay for my replacement discs. Big business has no problem with that...or so I've heard....

Seriously, though... What's to keep them from intentionally making discs too delicate for even a brain surgeon to handle?

Oh yeah! Hah! The NEW TECHNOLOGY coming out will drop tons of data per scratch, compared to what I'm yammering about. I forgot about that.

I'm not trying to make a case for pirating. If you want the truth, I've never burned one disc, not even of my own and I defy you to go back in the archives far enough to find me asking how to.

BUT...

IF THEY ARE GOING TO THROW PEOPLE IN JAIL WITH HIGH PRICED LAWYERS AND LAWSUITS, THEN THEY CAN AFFORD TO MAKE BETTER MEDIA. If they do not, then it is a declaration of war against the consumer. They should just not sell anything at all and send thugs into people's homes to collect money just for the hell of it. An easily destroyed DVD is merely a Trojan Horse.

[ROF]

Seriously, though... What's to keep them from intentionally making discs too delicate for even a brain surgeon to handle?

I gave a friend an old barton core chip around halloween time last year. I knew it was still a good chip as it went right from the board it was back into the shipping container I received it in. The friend took it out and tried it. She called me and said it failed to boot. I went to her house to see what the issue was. She had pulled the chip out so I told her to put it back in so I could see what was wrong. I watched her pull it out of the container pins in hand and place it into the socket. I asked her before she could close the ZIF if she was grounded. She said no. I asked her if she had touch the processor pins while putting the chip in. With a surprised look and staring between the socket and me she acknowledged yes. My response: You fried the chip due to stupidity. There was instructions in the box and also on the container about how to handle the core. There are directions on most commercial discs about how the discs can be easily scratched. There is also direction on how to properly handle and care for thie discs. Failure to follow directions isn't the music industries fault.

[kschang]

That's the problem with present day society. Nobody takes responsibility anymore. Everybody blames the big corporations because it's EASY to do so.

[Sillyname]

You guys are right.

Never mind.

I hope you get to be a houseboy for that CEO you always looked up to.

[kschang]

while true it is your responsibility to take care of your dvd's, the manufacturers DO spend quite a bit of money on copy-protection technology. ultimately, it would probably be cheaper for them to offer a replacement program...right?

It's the principle of things. It's like the cops telling the gangs to fight for turf all they want as long as they don't mug any tourists. Rubs against the grain and all that.

Besides, I'm pretty sure that copy protection costs only pennies (okay, less than a dollar) per disc pressed, which is a lot cheaper than providing replacements, IMHO.

EDIT: According to CDFreaks forum, it's about 15 cents.

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=84914

[TooLFooL]

@ ROF & kschang

no, im not saying they SHOULD give free replacements, that's the consumer's problem. it would certainly be a nice gesture, though, as they go to such great lengths to try and prevent copying. i didnt realize it was only $.15 per disc, but thats also about what it cost to MAKE the disc.

its kinda how the music industry cant really win the battle of mp3 sharing, so they have allowed people to download individual songs for a dollar. they're still not getting thier way, they are trying to minimize thier losses. somewhat of a 'compromise'...

it would be great if there was a dvd replacement program, perhaps mail 'em the old one, get a new one for a few bucks? but i do agree with you that it is the consumers responsibility.

[adam]

A number of DVD distributors do offer replacement programs. I don't think it says anywhere on/in the packaging. You have to check their website.

[lordsmurf]

ROF, you have a great point about kids. I totally agree. More people need to teach their little hellspawns respect for other people's property. If you do it when they're young, they turns into ******* adults that lack these values. The world is full of them, especially young ones from this stupid anti-spank generation where there were never any real consequences.

But don't go off the deep end with another one of your crazy analogies. Calendars and cars come with an expected lifetime. Media comes with an understanding that it will handle use for "100 years" by their own claims, and it's not happening that way. You'd get pretty pissed off if your calendar pages started to evaporate towards the end of the summer, or if your car quit working after 2 years. That would be a more proper comparison.