Is HD-DVD or Blu-Ray worth it?

[ebenton]

Maybe this could be a poll, if I could figure out some answer options, but anyway... Am I the only one who finds it hard to get excited about all the groovy stuff that will supposedly be available on the upcoming HD DVD or Blu-Ray disks?
Currently, when I buy or rent a movie, blockbuster or otherwise, I never listen to the director's and actors' narratives, I never play the video game or other DVD-ROM stuff (if available) and I never watch *most* of any other special features. I will usually watch alternative endings and watch some of the available shorts, but that's about it.
In other words, there is already more crap on a regular 8.5GB DVD than I care to look at.
Maybe I'm too cynical or jaded or maybe I'm an old curmudgeon, or maybe I just have no imagination, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what else they could possibly put on one of these 25-50GB disks to entice me to buy one. The High-Definition video is certainly great to watch, but I think they are just trying to dream up more crap to put on the disks just because they have the room, not because they think people are going to love it.
I have been watching High-Definition cable TV for a year now, and I can tell you that a worthless movie in HD is still a worthless movie. Lots of boring extra crap on an HD disk is still boring extra crap, regardless of how cool the picture is.
Does anybody else think this way, or do I just not have the right amount of child-like, Christmas-Eve anticipation for the release of these new formats?

[shelbyGT]

Even if it is just movie only in HD, I'd still prefer it. Once you go HD, you don't go back. I'm just lucky my current roommate has one and the fiance has one... so I don't have to buy one!

[yoda313]

I could definitely see the benefits. Even though I don't have a hdtv yet the sheer storage capacity is mindboggling.

Imgaine what we could do with a desktop bluray/hddvd burner?????? That would be impressive.

Though until I buy a hdtv I won't even think of buying a new player.

[shelbyGT]

If you get the ps3, you'll already have one.

[ebenton]

Don't get me wrong, I much prefer HD. However, I just have a hard time getting excited about all the *OTHER* non-movie stuff that the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray supporters are making a big deal about.
If it was only the movie, I would much prefer that over having to pay for a bunch of other stuff on a DVD in which I am not at all interested.

[edDV]

I'm more interested in 25GB per side of writable space.

I won't be buying many pre-recorded HD DVDs until the prices come down. $40-50 each gets a big no thankyou from me. Come back when they are under $10.

[yoda313]

$40-50 each

Damn thats pretty steep. I don't think so.

[ebenton]

edDV,
You're right. I too am interested in the available storage space of a blank HD-DVD or Blu-Ray disk. It's the pre-recorded stuff that I cannot get excited about. If they are going to ask that much for a pre-recorded disk, fuhgettaboutit. I'll wait for the movies to show up on HBO HD or Showtime HD. At least then I woun't be paying for 10-40 GB worth of inane stuff on a disk.

[adam]

Are they even supposed to have more extras and audio tracks? I don't see why they would, the limiting factor for those isn't space its value. Doubling the extras isn't really going to increase sales but it costs a hell of alot more to produce. I expect HD-DVDs and Blu ray discs to have about the same amount of content once things steady off, it will just be in mind blowingly higher quality. I for one can't wait.

[ROF]

I for one can't wait.

I agree and like you I can't wait.

As with all new storage media the blank recordable media will be expensive at first and so will the recording devices but they will steadily drop in price until they almost reach rock bottom pricing.

At that time we'll probably be revisiting a thread similiar to this discussing the HD/BD successor and it's seemingly expensive initial costs and associated usefulness to the average consumer.

[deejay.2001]

is not better just to jump over Blue Ray or HD DVD to dual layer 400GB holographic disc?

[ROF]

Some people skipped CD Burners and their first burner was DVD. HD/BD could be just a speed bump for some as we race towards terabyte removable storage media.

[Cobra]

Apparently, the copy protection on Blu-Ray films is ridiculous:

http://www.physorg.com/news5725.html

[ROF]

It's not so much ridiculous. It's just another protection scheme in a long line of such attempts to protect valuable IP. I'm curious about the effectiveness BD+ will have but I believe the next industry copy protection might be ROM marking. This could be used in many ways to prevent and catch those who pirate IP depending upon how ROM Mark is implemented.

[Cobra]

What about fair use? I copy my DVDs into AVI format just now, so I can leave originals at home and take my films to university with me. Saves lots on the insurance, for a start, and it doesn't matter much if the copies get stolen. Could I do that with my new (and much more expensive) Blu-Ray discs? Yes, I can sympathise with those who make films - they need paying. However, I don't want to lose my format-shifting and backup rights. I own that content, not them.

[yoda313]

Are they still thinking of making players that are REQUIRED to go online to authenticate the movie before playing????

That would be horrible.

[edDV]

What about fair use? I copy my DVDs into AVI format just now, so I can leave originals at home and take my films to university with me. Saves lots on the insurance, for a start, and it doesn't matter much if the copies get stolen. Could I do that with my new (and much more expensive) Blu-Ray discs? Yes, I can sympathise with those who make films - they need paying. However, I don't want to lose my format-shifting and backup rights. I own that content, not them.

Microsoft, Dell, Intel and the rest of the MCE group are still fighting for encrypted copying to servers and portable playback devices but SONY isn't cooperating.

Propaganda from The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA)
http://www.blu-ray.com/

Gates is not impressed
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000890063698/

[robertazimmerman]

As much as I am looking forward to the higher video resolution, I am equally excited about finally being able to have uncompressed audio along with my movies. Dolby 5.1 and virtually all of the other audio formats employ compression to such an extent that few of them sound any better than MP3s. Only DTS has the capability of providing uncompressed audio, but uncompressed DTS is rarely used because of the high storage requirements.

I wouldn't download music in compressed formats if the music companies gave it away for free, so bring on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray - maybe we'll get the benefits of SACD and DVD-A without having to go those routes!

roberta

[Wile_E]

Well, I want and need higher capacity so I can use only one disc to store my DV files. Right now I have to split the 13GB+ files up on multiple DVDs.

But I still say, the industry should wait for holographic discs, for use with High Def. Otherwise, they won't be able to fit many hours of High-Def on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray. I'd like a format that has higher capacity, so they can put at least a year of TV episodes on one disc(in High-def 1920x1080 format). Even Blu-Ray/HD-DVD won't have enough capacity for more than a few episodes of HD content on one disc.

I have the first three years of Star Trek Next Generation on DVD. Each year comes on 7 DVD's. There is only 4 episodes on each DVD, and the quality leaves little to be desired. They had to use low-bitrates. The multiple DVD's are a pain to swap, especially if your looking for a specific episode. If they use 1920x1080 on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, they will still have the problem of limited storage space. You will still see releases on multiple discs. They should wait for higher capacity format, so at least 12 hours of HD can fit on one disc. [b]HVD]/b] is already here and they should skip these intermediate formats.

[edDV]

Well, I want and need higher capacity so I can use only one disc to store my DV files. Right now I have to split the 13GB+ files up on multiple DVDs.

But I still say, the industry should wait for holographic discs, for use with High Def. Otherwise, they won't be able to fit many hours of High-Def on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray. I'd like a format that has higher capacity, so they can put at least a year of TV episodes on one disc(in High-def 1920x1080 format). Even Blu-Ray/HD-DVD won't have enough capacity for more than a few episodes of HD content on one disc.

I have the first three years of Star Trek Next Generation on DVD. Each year comes on 7 DVD's. There is only 4 episodes on each DVD, and the quality leaves little to be desired. They had to use low-bitrates. The multiple DVD's are a pain to swap, especially if your looking for a specific episode. If they use 1920x1080 on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray, they will still have the problem of limited storage space. You will still see releases on multiple discs. They should wait for higher capacity format, so at least 12 hours of HD can fit on one disc. [b]HVD]/b] is already here and they should skip these intermediate formats.

Well two ways to get there with Blu-Ray. Higher capacity blanks and tighter compression (VC-1 and H.264 to start).

Blu-Ray:
single side 25GB, double layer one side 50GB, double layer two side 100GB

VC-1 and H.264 compress 2-3x deeper than MPeg2. All Blu-Ray players must decode VC-1 and H.264.

That would potentially produce 2-4 hours per layer or 8-16 hours per double layer double side disc.

[jhotmann]

i cant find the article but i read somewhere that hologram technology could come out at the end of 2006 and hold tons more than a blue ray disk.

[Wile_E]

Here is an article, but it looks like us consumers will have to wait a LONG time. Discs won't even be 1TB at launch. Just pitiful 100-200GB and expensive as hell. I thought they were going to be 1TB at launch!!! What a joke. Guess we are literally stuck with HD-DVD/Blu-Ray for the next video format, just like we were stuck with 480i for TV for 50 years. I think I'm just going to start ripping all my DVD's onto several massive hard drives, and use a HTPC. Then put all the originals in storage.

2006 - for 200GB RW discs for Enterprise use.
2008 - 100GB READ-ONLY for consumer.
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=15344

[ROF]

Discs won't even be 1TB at launch. Just pitiful 100-200GB and expensive as hell. I thought they were going to be 1TB at launch!!!

Is waiting a few years really so much to ask for storage media that will be at least twice if not 3 - 10 times bigger then next gen media?

Look how long Dual Layer recording took to drop into the average consumers price range. People are still complaing about media when even that has plummeted in the last year. Quite a few people don't even own this advanced DVD burning capability.

[edDV]

Discs won't even be 1TB at launch. Just pitiful 100-200GB and expensive as hell. I thought they were going to be 1TB at launch!!!

Is waiting a few years really so much to ask for storage media that will be at least twice if not 3 - 10 times bigger then next gen media?

I want it now. I'm making due with DVDR current media but the effort (labor+time) required to compress to current media is excessive even if it is free or even if they pay us to take their blanks. Price isn't the issue, compression time is the issue. Either give us higher capacity media or give us 10x power CPU. ... No make that 100x power CPU.

/ending rant. Nobody will "give" anything to anybody, but expect dissatisfaction with current media capacity to turn more and more people off digital media products and will blunt the introduction of Blu-Ray.

Blu-Ray? too late, too expensive, titles weak? recorder price? Movie DVD price? No way! I just want to unload my PVR. Encrypted? Forget it!
Just say no and ignor. Bring on the next product!*

*If greater Wintel (MS, Intel, Dell, HP, Gateway+ eventually Apple) not to mention China, Inc. are on the ball at all, Hollywood will be bypassed.

Even if Hollywood goes down**, nobody will cry. Their replacements will be diversified and will produce better films.

** Hollywwod, Inc. gets >>50% from DVD revenue now. Not Theaters, not TV deals. DVD is ripe for others to pluck. Hollywood is fat and obsolete.

[ROF]

Discs won't even be 1TB at launch. Just pitiful 100-200GB and expensive as hell. I thought they were going to be 1TB at launch!!!

Is waiting a few years really so much to ask for storage media that will be at least twice if not 3 - 10 times bigger then next gen media?

I want it now. I'm making due with DVDR current media but the effort (labor+time) required to compress to current media is excessive even if it is free or even if they pay us to take their blanks. Price isn't the issue, compression time is the issue. Either give us higher capacity media or give us 10x power CPU. ... No make that 100x power CPU.

/ending rant.

I couldn't agree more. I want my 16 Petahertz processor with 14 - 160 yottabyte Hard Drives. I guess we all have to wait for what we want.

[verchad]

Discs won't even be 1TB at launch. Just pitiful 100-200GB and expensive as hell. I thought they were going to be 1TB at launch!!!

Is waiting a few years really so much to ask for storage media that will be at least twice if not 3 - 10 times bigger then next gen media?

I want it now. I'm making due with DVDR current media but the effort (labor+time) required to compress to current media is excessive even if it is free or even if they pay us to take their blanks. Price isn't the issue, compression time is the issue. Either give us higher capacity media or give us 10x power CPU. ... No make that 100x power CPU.

/ending rant.

I couldn't agree more. I want my 16 Petahertz processor with 14 - 160 yottabyte Hard Drives. I guess we all have to wait for what we want.

And don't forget sense-o-vision and smellavision too. MMM imagine watching that Dirty Jobs show with smellavision, yum yum.