What's the deal with DVD-R Dual Layer?

[thefiddler]

I've tried searching these forums and looking elsewhere online, but I just can't seem to find anything out for sure. I'm seeing drives that now support it, as well as media available. But just can't seem to find out if it's any better than the +R DL stuff. So here's my questions regarding DVD-R Dual Layer:

1) Are they more compatible with set-top dvd players than DVD+R DL?
2) If so, how compatible (anywhere near regular DVD-R media)?
3) Do I need a burner that specifically supports DVD-R DL, or will a simple firmware upgrade allow my drive (which is DVD+R DL capable) to burn DVD-R DL media?

Thanks for any input.

[ROF]

1) Are they more compatible with set-top dvd players than DVD+R DL?

No. It's been my experience that set top players which play +R DL fine play -R DL fine. Those that don't suffer playing both formats.

2) If so, how compatible (anywhere near regular DVD-R media)?

100% compatibility if the machine supports it.

3) Do I need a burner that specifically supports DVD-R DL, or will a simple firmware upgrade allow my drive (which is DVD+R DL capable) to burn DVD-R DL media?

I've not seen any firmware that upgrades to -R DL support so I'd have to say no you'd need to buy a burner at this time that supports -R DL. I replaced an aging burner recently with one. The prices are dirt cheap. NEC 3540a for $42 will work fine.

[thefiddler]

I pretty much assumed that -R DL would be AS compatible as +R DL. What I'm wanting to know is are they more compatible? All I've heard is nightmares about how +R DL media will play in only a few set-top DVD players (usually the latest). And that when they do play, they often have problems switching layers. What I wanted to know when I asked the first and second quesitons, is are they more widely compatible than these stupid +R DL discs? And if so, how much? Do they even approach the 93% compatibility with set-top players that regular -R media does?

Also, I know prices are cheap, however I have a laptop and need an external drive, which increases prices significantly.

[ROF]

They are just as compatible. If the set top player plays +r DL it will play -r DL. If it plays but has trouble switching layers with +r DL, it will have trouble switching layers with -r DL. This is based on my experience with players that don't work or only half work. I've found that recorders tend to have more compatibility than players when it comes to playing DL media. There are several players from budget to outrageously expensive that will play DL media.

My players/recorders, except my portable player all play both +r and -r DL media without any problems. My friends and relatives have differing results. I had a Sony player that stuttered with +r DL media, so it made a nice birthday gift for a friend.

[thefiddler]

So basically, when it comes to outputting to DVD. If you're going to use it only for personal use, and you know your set-top does fine with DL, then go for it. But if you want anyone else to watch it, use regular -R media. Am I understanding correctly?

EDIT:
I guess I'd just heard rumors that the -R DL stuff was taking a long time because they wanted to make it more compatible. I was hoping we'd finaly have a recordable DVD-9 that was actually useable beyond the narrow scope of +R DL.

[psx_pirate]

yup ... sounds about right to me

[ROF]

If the source is DVD-9 and you want 100% quality of your backup I'd recommend using comparable sized media. If your player doesn't like DL media you can find another at your local electonics shop for cheaper than the price of a 10 pack of DL media.

As to your friends using them, just tell them what you would tell them when you own an Xbox and they don't. Sorry, your PC is incapable of playing my games. There is no need for you to downgrade your experience just to support them. If they are just as concerned as you, they'll upgrade to a device which supports their viewing. It's really cheap to do so. the only problem with this line of thinking is the same problem you have getting people to buy more RAM for their PC. It's not a flashy enough investment to justify the cost, plus they already have a semi-workable machine. You just need to sell them on the idea and if you can't you just need to tell them that you won't be slowed down because of them.

[-jsl-]

Your best chance of success with DL media is to use Verbatim/MKM DVD+R DL media burned as DVD-ROM book type on a good DVD writer with a software that doesn't mess up the layer break, like Sonic Recordnow or PGCedit + DVDdecrypter/Imgburn.

DVD-R DL uses the same book type as SL DVD-R and it seems to confuse some players so the compatibility is likely worse than for DVD+R DL with DVD-ROM book type. Another drawback with DVD-R DL is that the first layer of a DVD-R DL needs to be completely filled when burning in standard DAO mode.

[RDS1955]

I have Panasonic E80H DMR, a Cyberhome 300 and a Cinevision 1000 DVD set top players. Non of them will play a DVD-R DL. My LG and Nec DVD Burners in my PC's and Laptop will not recognize a DVD-r DL. My Plextor 716 would not read nor write to one until I did a firmware upgrade to the burner, but now does both..I have about 25 Blank Verbatim DVD-R DL discs which I only use now as a storage medium.. But Soon I'm gonna purchase a Philips 642 model, and hopefully my money spent on the both the Discs and the Philips unit will not be in vain..I'll use the Plextor to burn and play em onthe Philips..

[lenti_75]

dvd-r dl is seen as dvd-r

the best chance is using dvd+r dl and burn it with dvd-rom booktype.

[outspoken]

Your best chance of success with DL media is to use Verbatim/MKM DVD+R DL media burned as DVD-ROM book type on a good DVD writer with a software that doesn't mess up the layer break, like Sonic Recordnow or PGCedit + DVDdecrypter/Imgburn.

DVD-R DL uses the same book type as SL DVD-R and it seems to confuse some players so the compatibility is likely worse than for DVD+R DL with DVD-ROM book type. Another drawback with DVD-R DL is that the first layer of a DVD-R DL needs to be completely filled when burning in standard DAO mode.

i just bought a BenQ DW1640 and want to make a 100% backup using a +R DL disc. is there a nice howto on doing this as you are recommending? i am familiar with using PGCEdit, but only for skipping previews and editing - and would not know how to use it for what you are describing.

[-jsl-]

i just bought a BenQ DW1640 and want to make a 100% backup using a +R DL disc. is there a nice howto on doing this as you are recommending? i am familiar with using PGCEdit, but only for skipping previews and editing - and would not know how to use it for what you are describing.

https://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/dl_burning_with_pgcedit.htm

[bmiller]

I've been writing dual layer for a few months now.It took a few discs to realize what bugs you run across.Media used is a big one.Ritek dual layer is not worth a nickel.Memorex is also made by ritek.They only play in 60% of the players i've tried them in.I now use verbatim or fujifilm(ricohjn).Both have 100% compatability,so far. Dvd-r dl from verbatim also works just fine,but are harder to find,and a little more expensive right now.
I use a NEC 3540,and also a modified firmware that allows booktype setting to dvd-rom.
record now deluxe,and copytodvd both burn dual layer fine for me.I know people have had problems with the layer break,but when i backup my commercial dvd's,i copy the whole thing unaltered,so the layer break is the same as the original.I think a lot of problems occur when the dvd is modified and the burn program changes the layer break.Not my field of expertise,others i'm sure will have their say on this.

[ROF]

I also use a 3540, but I never use hacked or modified firmware as it always causes odd results with media. Memorex ritek media produces beautiful results.

[bmiller]

The ritek D01's i used,including memorex,played in all 3 of my dvd players,but do not play in half of my friends players.There may be some newer ritek's out there,but the D01 line is junk,as noted from others on this and other forums.