Why cant I tell the difference SD v HD??

[Rudyard]

I am new to the the HDTV world and dont fully understand what is going on.
But I have seen at my inlaws an LG Plasma tv and a Samsung LCD tv running through HD digital set top boxes and when I change from the SD channel to the HD channel I cannot tell the difference.

Now the plasma I was told only goes to 480 or 500ish and so wasnt true HD. I assume that means 480 lines of reolution? If so that is less than DVD quality yeah? Could someone please explain it to me. But if so I understand why that one wouldnt be noticeable because whilst it can recieve the signal the TV cannot broadcast it at any higher resolution.

But the LCD screen I believe can go upto 1080 but again I cannot tell the difference when I switch between the HD and SD channels. However I find the picture quality quite poor on the LCD.

I also cannot tell the difference in pic quality when hooked up through av plugs or the composite plugs.

Is the difference in HD, SD and av, component that minor that only experts can pick it up or is it the TV's or digital boxes?

Now I have a 140cm Phillips rear screen projector which is HD ready should I have a HD box. It can produce signals upto 1080i. At the moment I only have a SD box and the picture quality varies (from an untrained eye) from outstanding on certain shows (Lost, Las Vegas) to good (Rugby League broadcasts, sometimes the players get little boxes around them).

I am quite happy with it but have always wondered if things would get even better in HD, but after not being able to tell the difference on the other HD sets i have seen I am unsure wether to pay for a HD box if it is only a very marginal difference that many 'normal' people wont notice.

Could somebody please give me advice if it is worth while paying for HD and if so is 720p better or worse than 1080i and what should I watch if I have the choice (progressive, interlaced.....im a bit confused!)

Thankyou.

[edDV]

I am new to the the HDTV world and dont fully understand what is going on.
...
Now the plasma I was told only goes to 480 or 500ish and so wasnt true HD. I assume that means 480 lines of reolution? If so that is less than DVD quality yeah?
...
I also cannot tell the difference in pic quality when hooked up through av plugs or the composite plugs.
...
Is the difference in HD, SD and av, component that minor that only experts can pick it up or is it the TV's or digital boxes?

What country are you in?

Sounds like an incorrect installation. What is the HD source? Over the air tuner? or HD cable tuner?

You said the TV was plasma so it was probably at least an EDTV (720x480p) Model numbers would help. EDTV matches DVD in progressive mode. HDTV channels would be downscaled and displayed at that resolution

Overview for American ATSC digital TV
This is a parallel service to normal NTSC (approx 352x480i). Special tuners are required. DTV channels are broadcast in SDTV (704x480i), EDTV (704x480p like DVD) and HDTV (1280x720p or 1920x1080i). Cable HDTV tuners mostly retransmit all HD channels at 1080i.

If you were properly receiving progressive EDTV or HDTV you should see a difference but most HDTV receivers display at far less "native" or internal display resolution than the numbers above suggest.

Unless a HD plasma is very high end, it probably displays in the 1280-1440x1080 range. Typical HD LCDs are native 1024-1280x768-1024p. Typical HD CRTs max around 1000x1080. EDTVs are always 720x480.

To receive HD or ED, the TV and tuner must be properly connected and configured. Connection is wideband analog component, DVI or HDMI.

In sum, the plasma was probably an EDTV and not properly configured for progressive 480p. You gave almost zero info for the LCD.

Now I have a 140cm Phillips rear screen projector which is HD ready should I have a HD box. It can produce signals upto 1080i. At the moment I only have a SD box and the picture quality varies (from an untrained eye) from outstanding on certain shows (Lost, Las Vegas) to good (Rugby League broadcasts, sometimes the players get little boxes around them).

I am quite happy with it but have always wondered if things would get even better in HD, but after not being able to tell the difference on the other HD sets i have seen I am unsure wether to pay for a HD box if it is only a very marginal difference that many 'normal' people wont notice.

Could somebody please give me advice if it is worth while paying for HD and if so is 720p better or worse than 1080i and what should I watch if I have the choice (progressive, interlaced.....im a bit confused!)
Thankyou.

Model numbers would help.
Your rear projector can receive 1920x1080 interlace but unless you paid over $10,000 for it, it displays far less. Is it DLP, LCD, CRT?

If your set is typical, it probably displays around 1000-1280x1080 for interlaced HDTV and up to 720x480 progressive (like DVD) and yes the improvement should be huge if done correctly.

Have you hooked up a progressive DVD player yet?

Are you considering over the air HD reception? Cable? DBS?

[Rudyard]

What country are you in?

Sounds like an incorrect installation. What is the HD source? Over the air tuner? or HD cable tuner?

You said the TV was plasma so it was probably at least an EDTV (720x480p) Model numbers would help. EDTV matches DVD in progressive mode. HDTV channels would be downscaled and displayed at that resolution

I am in Australia. The HD source is over the air tuner. I apologise for the lack of info, I dont have the model numbers on hand right now.

If you were properly receiving progressive EDTV or HDTV you should see a difference but most HDTV receivers display at far less "native" or internal display resolution than the numbers above suggest.

What does 'native' mean? If it says it displays at a certain resoultion, I thought it would have to be able to do that. Also I am aware of High Definition and Standard Definition in Australia, but I have not heard of EDTV.... what does that stand for? *edit, Ok ive been googling and found out that EDTV is another name for 480p.*

Model numbers would help.
Your rear projector can receive 1920x1080 interlace but unless you paid over $10,000 for it, it displays far less. Is it DLP, LCD, CRT?

If your set is typical, it probably displays around 1000-1280x1080 for interlaced HDTV and up to 720x480 progressive (like DVD) and yes the improvement should be huge if done correctly.

Have you hooked up a progressive DVD player yet?

Are you considering over the air HD reception? Cable? DBS?

Again sorry I dont have the model numbers with me, but I can tell you its cost well under $10,000. Just over $3000 Australian dollars so I guess it displays less than it says. It is a CRT rear projector.

Unfortunately my DVD player is a bit old and does not have progressive scan. I am going to buy a DVD recorder in its place early in the new year. Other than progressive scan are there any other things to make sure a DVD player has that is best for higher picture quality?

My HD reception would have to be over the air. The only cable that I am aware of in Australia is for Pay-tv which I have but that only broadcasts in SD I have been told.

Thanks, appreciate your help.

[edDV]

What country are you in?

I am in Australia. The HD source is over the air tuner. I apologise for the lack of info, I dont have the model numbers on hand right now.

About all I know about Australia HD is that it is some form of 1080i.

If you were properly receiving progressive EDTV or HDTV you should see a difference but most HDTV receivers display at far less "native" or internal display resolution than the numbers above suggest.

What does 'native' mean? If it says it displays at a certain resoultion, I thought it would have to be able to do that.

Read carefully. Nowhere does it say it will "display" 1080i. If just says it will input 1080i. LCD and plasma will state a "native resolution" if you dig deep enough. CRTs almost never reveal a horizontal bandwidth, just scan lines. That is because they want you to think you will see full 1080i, not 800x1080 typ.

Also I am aware of High Definition and Standard Definition in Australia, but I have not heard of EDTV.... what does that stand for? *edit, Ok ive been googling and found out that EDTV is another name for 480p.*

Sort of. Here EDTV is one of the SD broadcasting specs. EDTV sets are defined here as capable of 704x480 progressive. Very few digital stations broadcast in EDTV, they just broadcast SDTV 480i or HDTV (either 1080i or 720p). An EDTV will accept 1080i or 720p but display at 704x480 progressive.

In Europe, 720x576 progressive is being scammed off as HDTV by some, mostly politicians.

[minchjp]

About all I know about Australia HD is that it is some form of 1080i.

Well, 2 channels anyway. Channel 9 and 10 use 1080i, the rest use 576p. 576p is the same resolution as SDTV and DVD, but with 50fps. Because in Australia we speed up film to present on DVD and TV, we get progressive 25fps, so on 576p, most HD content has every second frame doubled. That is probobly why Rudyard can't tell the difference.

[lenti_75]

I hate to tell you, but all this bullshit HD mania is just $$$$$ for them, and the "idea" for you that is better.

in reality, is not that much difference to worth spending big bucks for it. I keep going into stores and try to see the diferrence, but can't see it.

maybe I need glasess..... :P

[edDV]

could be

The difference seems huge here because the base of cable NTSC is so poor (typ, 540x480 even for "digital" HBO premium channels). HDTV makes the jump to 1080i or 720p sources which is a huge step to the extent of the display's resolution.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

[gshelley61]

There really is a big difference if you have a screen that can actually display HDTV resolutions (not just accept a digital HD signal). I have a 46" DLP that is 1280x720p native, and am running a very nice LG brand HDTV receiver with DVI output. It picks up all the clear (unscrambled) QAM digital signals off of my local cable, so I have access to about 10 channels of HD and about another 30 SD digital channels.

The best looking stuff is on Discovery HD, but some of the prime time network shows are in HD now and look awesome. Even Jay Leno and Conan O'Brien are in HD. The best HD sources look almost like you are looking through a window, or for film sources look more like the actual projected film would. It's difficult to go back to 480i digital images, let alone the crummy analog cable channels.

[MACCA350]

One problem with Australian standards is that they have split SD and HD in the wrong place. You see over here SD is everything interlaced up to and including 576i, HD is from 575p up. So HD set-top boxes only need to send out 576p to be classed as HD. Couple this with the the way they advertise HD displays youll find even the sales people couldnt tell you the native res of many displays! The term 'HD ready' is bullshit and should not be used .

I know of a number of people who have baught Plasmas beleiving they are true HD after being told they are HD by the sales people, and when I read through the bullshit advertising I find a native SD res.

Sorry all but these Aus standards and the way they get away with advertising missinformation really piss me off

If people want real info on what they buy go to a quality dedicated High-end Hi-fi store (and I'm not talking about JBhifi) where the sales people know what there talking about instead of your big chain stores (without naming them) where most of the sales people dont know shit and definitely not enough to inform the average person properly.

Ok enough said, I'm going to have a smoke to calm down,

Sorry for the rant, cheers

[gshelley61]

The "HD Ready" marketing BS is the same here in the USA. The vast majority of these so-called "HD Ready" sets do not have the ability to actually display a HD image. They simply can accept an HD signal. The average consumer doesn't have a clue about any of this, and many plunk down $1000-$2000 for sets that are in fact not HDTV's at all. It really sucks for the uninformed.

[edDV]

The "HD Ready" marketing BS is the same here in the USA. The vast majority of these so-called "HD Ready" sets do not have the ability to actually display a HD image. They simply can accept an HD signal. The average consumer doesn't doesn't have a clue about this, and plunk down $1000-$2000 for sets that are in fact not HDTV's.

Best thing that can be said about "HD Ready" sets is they usually and do a good job with progressive (480p) DVD which is still a huge step up for most people. They also give a partial display of 1080i (with OTA/HD cable/HD DBS tuner) which is even better.

The down side is despite "3D comb filters", normal analog and cable "digital" TV often looks worse because the sets are good enough to show how bad normal broadcast, cable and DBS signals really are. Cable and direct satellite "digital" MPeg2 at 480-525x480 is awful stuff. This what they give you even on the "premuim" pay channels. VHS looks even worse.

Hard to get the folks back working on the farm after they have seen the big city.

[RabidDog]

where most of the sales people dont know shit

On the contrary they are overly familiar with ordure, as that is what they are trying to sell you! "HD ready" marketing speak is like boswelox....