VideoHelp Forum




+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2
1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 31
  1. Hey, I’m looking to build a decent system strictly for video editing. I’m looking at my options and want some input.

    I have a G4 Mac (500 MHz I believe) with OSX, and a ton of software. The system was designed for audio/music sequencing, etc. so it’s not much of a power horse for video.

    With a budget of just over $1000, I’m stuck on the choice of either spending a part of that on more RAM and external hard drives (I want external storage for different projects)for the Mac, or spending it all on a brand new PC (I doubt I could get a speedy new Mac for that price). I’ve seen a tutorial on building a NLE PC for $1000.. so I know it’s possible.

    I wonder if adding more RAM to the Mac would actually make it decent for video work. Wouldn’t the core processor (400-500MHz or so) have to be faster as well? What speeds are acceptable for video work? I’ll be doing some major rendering work – hour, to 2 hour long projects… with effect and such. I want as much power as I can get. Any ideas/help?
    Thanks

    Robbie
    Robbibee@comcast.net
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member terryj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    N35°25.24068, W097°34.204
    Search Comp PM
    I've done editing on both a PM 710/80, a G4 466, a G4 Dual 800 QS, and now a Dual 1 G4 MDD. I can DEFINITELY say
    Processor makes a difference, the difference between
    a project taking say 5-7 hours round trip
    (editing, compressing to format, author and burn)
    to 2-4 hours round trip.

    That being said, I did try some light editing and saving to MPEG-1
    of some low end footage on an eMac 1.25ghz.
    it didn't take long, the machine had 1GB of Ram,
    and produced the file ( an 11 min clip) in roughly
    the same time as my Dual 1 would have taken.

    I for one am NOT of the opinion of sinking money
    into a machine, just becasue new OS's usually cause havoc
    with third party cards, and this can be a pain.

    For $1000 dollars you could easily get into one of these macs here:
    G4 1ghz eMac
    http://www.powermax.com/cgi-global/generate_css_temp.cgi?p=c-u57567

    G4 1.42 Emac
    http://www.smalldog.com/product/34822

    As long as you stay 1ghz or better, with a min of 512MB
    ( 768 to 1GB of ram is better), you'll be fine
    for getting 2 hour projects done.
    "Everyone has to learn, so that they can one day teach."
    ------------------------------------------------------
    When I'm not here, Where can I be found?
    Urban Mac User
    Quote Quote  
  3. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    The only thing I like about Mac is DVD Studio Pro. Everything else I can do on PC, often better, and with a much broader choice of software.

    Just my thoughts on this.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  
  4. Member adcvideo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    British Columbia
    Search Comp PM
    The other option is to buy a CPU upgrade -- a Mac accelerator card, which will offer a speed boost up to 1.7 GHz. These third-party CPU upgrades are about one half the price of a new Mac, much less if you want to risk eBay. You won't get all the speed increase as with a new Mac such as a faster bus and so on, but it may solve your problem. But some software won't work with an accelerator card.

    Many Mac users (myself included) prefer the older tower Macs because they are more expandable than the new budget all-in-one units, particulary if you want to add more video cards/monitors -- essential to video editing IMHO. Many other add-on options are available via USB, but not all.

    As for software, my experience is that the expensive pro studio software is equal to the PC, but the PC is better at affordable hobby applications, although iLife is pretty fine. And I have both platforms. Although the Macs are much more affordable than they used to be compared to a PC, you still pay a premium for the towers that enable extra, faster video cards...
    Quote Quote  
  5. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    The only thing I like about Mac is DVD Studio Pro. Everything else I can do on PC, often better, and with a much broader choice of software.
    Who need choices when you have Final Cut? :P
    Keeper of the "Unofficial" iMovie FAQ also for the lastest iMovie news click here
    Your source for iMovie answers and what not! ;-)
    Quote Quote  
  6. Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Search Comp PM
    I'd go for the upgrade if at all possible. I have quit the windows world for good for all the usual reasons (viruses, windows blue screen of death, etc) and have never regretted it for a moment. I picked up a an AGP Sawtooth G4 minitower very inexpensively, upgraded it with a second 120 gb internal hard drive plus a firewire external 200 mb hard drive I already had, a pioneer dv-109 super drive (froogle it and get it for under $50 -- burn support in tiger for all dvd formats), got a powerlogix g4 1 gig cpu upgrade ($169 through xlr8yourmac.com's owc specials), 1 gig of ram (saving up for another 512mb) and a radeon 8500 agp sound card (the best for the agp 2x mac) off of ebay. Careful shopping and use of some components from my old blue and white kept my budget under $500 for the entire system. Tomorrow my Convertx for Mac video capture/tv tuner is set to arrive ($170 from Tech for Less) and I can't wait to try it.

    If you think you might want a dual processor upgrade some day, make sure the older Mac you have or get can support it (I found out belatedly that only some Sawtooth models have a high enough "uni-m" number to handle the dual processors).

    You could get a mac mini for what I spent, but minus the ram, the extra storage and the superior dvd burner, so in the end I think I got a bargain.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by DanSlagle
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    The only thing I like about Mac is DVD Studio Pro. Everything else I can do on PC, often better, and with a much broader choice of software.
    Who need choices when you have Final Cut? :P
    Yeah, FCP is fine for an NLE. I have Premiere on the PC. I like them both. But beyond the simple DV solution, Mac is not there with what I want and need.

    If all you want is DV in, edit in NLE, encode to MPEG, author out to DVD, it's fine.

    If you want to start running massive amount of filters, restore video, encode multiple formats, do "maintenance" style work, repair work, audio work, etc ... too limiting. Sometimes Mac has no software at all.

    There are no counterparts to things like VOB Edit, Restream, DVD2AVI, Womble, Nero CD-DVD Speed, CloneCD, ISOBuster, DVD Rebulder ... and that's just looking at software on my desktop.

    Apple has not deemed those things "necessary" so you don't have software for it. While new stuff pops up from time to time, most of it is recent and way behind in stability (MPEG Streamclip, BitVice, MainConcept, for example).

    Any time somebody asks me "is a Mac good" I be sure to cover all these bases, often to the chagrin of Mac fanboys. So far, none seem to be flocking to this thread, so that's good. I have no bias towards anything other than "what works for what I need".

    If they would put out OS X for PC, with a copy of DVDSP, I'd setup a dual-boot system 24 hours later. I far prefer the ease and pro abilities of DVDSP compared to anything found on the PC.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  
  8. Are MAC processor speeds comparable to PC processor speeds? Or do they work more efficiently so the figures (MHz) aren't relative?

    I guess what I'm basically asking is, what could get me more for $1000: A PC or a MAC?

    The G4 processor I have is 500 MHz.. and I don't want to replace that. So what's a decent G4 processor speed for video? Is 500 Mhz acceptable? It seems it isn't from what I've heard, and I'm only willing to up the RAM and hard drive stuff. If not, I'm dropping the upgrading idea and starting from scratch (PC or MAC).

    Which leads to the same question. With $1000 budget, what could I get more of, a PC or MAC.

    I'm fine with upgrading more RAM later, but I want something functional with that price.
    Quote Quote  
  9. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    Easily get more PC for $1000.
    Mac costs a lot more for a lot less.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  
  10. Get Slack disturbed1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    init 4
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    The only thing I like about Mac is DVD Studio Pro. Everything else I can do on PC, often better, and with a much broader choice of software.

    Just my thoughts on this.
    That's why I'd vote to upgrade the MAC. There is no PC software that comes close in this price range.

    Sure you can build a nice and speedy pc for $1000, but what about the software you'd need? Plenty of free-ware, and low cost consumer grade apps, but anything pro will cost a bundle on the PC. There's also 50 million apps that do the exact same thing. Product selection is over whelming, and sometimes confusing.

    Don't bother with the mini mac, it won't be any faster than what than what you already have. It's also legacy hardware that is (for the most part) non upgradable. You can opt for a faster than base MINI mac, but those are overpriced, and still use old hardware. You'd be better off just buying an upgrade card for your current MAC.

    The only thing a faster CPU will do, is cut your production time down. There are quite a few of us here that started with much slower machines. I used to create SVCDs on a Pentium Pro 200, that's 36 hours to make one SVCD. Not that I want to go back to that time, but you deal with what you have.

    If time rather than creativity and quality are of the essence. Buy a $300 PC, $300 Real Time MPEG capture card, $60 DVD Burner, $90 for TMPGEnc DVD Author + AC3, and have money left over for pizza beer and blank DVDs.
    Quote Quote  
  11. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    I would not agree about PC software costing more. It's about even. DVDWS2 comes close to DVDSP in features, but not quite (DVDSP has more), though prices are about the same.

    I'd like to hear more about WHAT the person wants to do. Still not heard that one. Mac is really more geared towards a DV solution, though there are limited copying abilities from Mac freeware.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  
  12. Get Slack disturbed1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    init 4
    Search Comp PM
    Is DVD Work Shop really that good now?

    Been quite a while since I've checked it out (version 1 or 1.5). If I had to choose between a virus and previous version of DVDWS, I would rather have a virus. At least a Virus can easily be removed without a re-format
    Quote Quote  
  13. Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Search Comp PM
    I think you should reconsider your adamant opposition to upgrading your Mac's processor. It's very easy to do: Upgrading the CPU in a Mac tower is a 5-10 minute, 1 screwdriver operation, not much harder than adding RAM. The Sonnet and PowerLogix cards are self-configuring, no jumpers to mess with (opening and working on a Mac tower, IMHO, is easier than the average PC), and there is a broad price range: well under $200 for a 1.0 ghz G4 (roughly equivalent to a 1.5 ghz pentium class) to $359 for a 1.8 ghz G4 (equivalent to a 2.5 ghz pentium) to $459 for a dual processor 1.2 ghz G4, which should pack plenty of punch for most any video work. There is no doubt that the wealth of choices for software and video cards is much greater on the PC, and that is a valid determining factor in making your choice; but there is also no doubt that Tiger is a vastly superior and more efficient OS, and that, too, should figure in your final decision. If you haven't tried Tiger yet, you really should before you decide to switch back to PCs.
    Quote Quote  
  14. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by disturbed1
    Is DVD Work Shop really that good now?

    Been quite a while since I've checked it out (version 1 or 1.5). If I had to choose between a virus and previous version of DVDWS, I would rather have a virus. At least a Virus can easily be removed without a re-format
    There are few things it cannot do that most people would want. It even has abilities for some fairly complex work, I just a couple of things with it, and was very pleased by the pro-quality output.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  
  15. Master of my domain thoughton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    England
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    If they would put out OS X for PC, with a copy of DVDSP, I'd setup a dual-boot system 24 hours later. I far prefer the ease and pro abilities of DVDSP compared to anything found on the PC.
    Does this mean that you'll be ditching your PC in 2006?
    Tim Houghton
    WebsitePhotography
    Quote Quote  
  16. Member adcvideo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    British Columbia
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by thoughton
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    If they would put out OS X for PC, with a copy of DVDSP, I'd setup a dual-boot system 24 hours later. I far prefer the ease and pro abilities of DVDSP compared to anything found on the PC.
    Does this mean that you'll be ditching your PC in 2006?
    The new Macs will be able to boot Windows, or even run Windows using an emulator under OS X at full speed (maybe Virtual PC if MIcrosoft decides OK) But OS X will not run on any PC, it will require a hardware dongle.

    I believe this has been posted here before:

    http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0506intelmac.html
    Quote Quote  
  17. Master of my domain thoughton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    England
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by adcvideo
    The new Macs will be able to boot Windows, or even run Windows using an emulator under OS X at full speed (maybe Virtual PC if MIcrosoft decides OK) But OS X will not run on any PC, it will require a hardware dongle.

    I believe this has been posted here before:

    http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0506intelmac.html
    Yeah it's been posted there and about a million other places too

    The current developer release works (barring some driver issues) on any PC, the hardware "dongle" is a planned add-on layer of "protection". (FWIW I it seems impossible that it will be an actual dongle, most speculation seems to center on a DRM-style chip). There are screenshots around of the dev release running on everything from basic Dells to high end Tablet PCs. I think it's pretty much accepted wisdom that the retail Intel OS X will be hacked to work on any PC too.

    In any case, I was actually wondering if Lord Smurf would be getting the Apple-Intel hardware, and running his PC apps on that, rather than installing OS X onto the current PC. I know I certainly look forward to being able to running PC software on my Mac at near-native speeds!
    Tim Houghton
    WebsitePhotography
    Quote Quote  
  18. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    What I get next depends on what exists when I go shopping in the future. I don't bother with "looking forward" as proposed specs and final products are never the same. If Apple makes it difficult or has unreal pricing/expectations, I'll pass on their hardware/software next time too. If they want my business, they have to provide a product I can use as desired. Same goes for PC or anything else (toasters, coffee pots, cars, whatever).

    At this very minute, today, for the poster shopping right now, unless you merely want a DV solution, I'd totally bypass Mac and invest in a PC. That may change someday, but not now.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  
  19. Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    USA
    Search Comp PM
    I'd stay with the Mac and upgrade the processor (or get a new G5). One thing to consider is that Final Cut Pro has become the de factor standard for non linear editing among independent filmmakers. In fact, a system not much different from yours has been used to edit major Hollywood films.
    Quote Quote  
  20. Member adcvideo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    British Columbia
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by pduck
    I'd stay with the Mac and upgrade the processor (or get a new G5). One thing to consider is that Final Cut Pro has become the de factor standard for non linear editing among independent filmmakers. In fact, a system not much different from yours has been used to edit major Hollywood films.
    Exactly! And that includes Shake, Motion, Soundtrack Pro and Logic Pro. No exactly for DV, but geared toward pro motion picture production. But perhaps not so affordable compared to the capabilities that the PC can offer at more realistic consumer prices. Yes, the basic Mac without expensive software is great for DV, such as iMovie and the very affordable FCP Express.

    What the PC also has are loads of utility software for DVD work, rendering and conversion, including some great freeware, and a better choice of capture hardware at the consumer level. If I were building up a studio, I would buy a bank of G5 Macs, and have a PC as well for the occasional utility tasks that needed completing. And that may be what you will find at the professional level, or so Apple would have us believe

    And, about the question if the Mhz comparison is accurate -- it used to be accepted wisdom that the G4 CPU was faster than the same speed Intel or AMD, but I don't know if this holds true today, when you can purchase a PC with all the horsepower needed for a great price. And the Macs cost a bundle if you want an expandable tower. I still believe that the capacity for second monitor or two is essential for video editing, so I would recommend to the original poster that a CPU upgrade card and a second video card such as a Radeon (a real Mac version, not a crappy ROM-hacked PC card) would be a good start if you already own some good Mac software that works for you.

    Cheers
    Quote Quote  
  21. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Hawaii
    Search Comp PM
    Honestly, how can someone with a ~$1K hardware budget also afford Final Cut Pro?
    Quote Quote  
  22. Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    In my opinion, upgrade the mac. Anything my clients need, I can produce on my mac. It has been my cornerstone for video production (but then again, thats just my opinion. There are many good things about PCs.)
    Quote Quote  
  23. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by sjk
    Honestly, how can someone with a ~$1K hardware budget also afford Final Cut Pro?
    Used version off eBay and educational discounts new.
    You can do that with most software. Forget MSRP.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  
  24. What I plan to do is DV editing... transfer footage to the HD, edit, a authoring it to DVD. That simple. I've got a bundle of software for my MAC already, including FCP3, and I have access to a bunch of other software. That's not the case though. I'm just concerned with hardware, a fast system that doesn't have me sitting and waiting for day-long render times. I mean, that's understandable for a +2 hour long project, but I think anything is faster than my PC.

    As for a mac, the G5 dual processors need a mobo that has two sockets or is that like a single unit hyperthreading processor?

    To answer your questions, yeah editing, I'm starting an independent film company and want a station for doing just that.

    So if I were to go out and buy a G4 or G5 processor upgrade, would there be an issue with the mobo accepting it? Or are all Mac mobo's compatible with upping processor speeds?

    I'm fairly happy with Adobe Premiere for my editing, so with that for PC, I basically need DVD authoring software.
    Quote Quote  
  25. Member terryj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    N35°25.24068, W097°34.204
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Originally Posted by sjk
    Honestly, how can someone with a ~$1K hardware budget also afford Final Cut Pro?
    Used version off eBay and educational discounts new.
    You can do that with most software. Forget MSRP.
    I second that. And Educational Discounts are the simplest to prove.
    Instead of just wasting the summer away on the couch, enroll in your local community college in an "intro to DV" or "Digital Scrapboking" class,
    and reap the benefits of an educatioanl discount.

    much cheaper than MSRP.
    Quote Quote  
  26. Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Search Comp PM
    Your G4 PowerMac can handle with virtually no effort any of the commercially available G4 single CPU processor upgrade cards out there -- Sonnet, PowerLogix, OWC, Giga Designs (which has the most powerful available at 2 ghz). But only SOME older PowerMacs can handle dual processors; you have to get a bit of free software and verify your uni-m number is 7 or higher for dual processor compatibility. The Giga Designs web site has the links and support info you'll need to do this: http://www.buygiganow.com/dualcomp.html .

    There are no G5 upgrades for the older PowerMacs.

    Obviously, your rendering/encoding times will be reduced by getting the fastest upgrade you can afford. The PowerLogix 1 ghz G4s start at $177, and they go up to $380-$400 for the 1.7 and 1.8 ghz models.

    One consideration -- and perhaps someone else on the list can answer this -- is whether a 1 or 1.2 ghz dual processor upgrade would be faster
    for your purposes than a 1.8 ghz single G4 (because they are likely to be similarly priced).
    Quote Quote  
  27. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Hawaii
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Forget MSRP.
    Obviously. Still, academic pricing for FCP5 is $499, which is quite pricey for someone (e.g. Gwobbie) on a $1K budget. FCEHD, on the other hand, is a much more affordable $149 and may be all a person needs (at first, anyway). Similar sort of thing with Photoshop vs. Photoshop Elements.
    Quote Quote  
  28. Member terryj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    N35°25.24068, W097°34.204
    Search Comp PM
    Were did you see Academic Pricing for FCP at $499?
    The Twilight Zone? Beverly Hills? Or just Apple direct?


    I know for a fact that FCP 5
    (upgrade from previous) can
    be had for about $380.

    You just need to check with either your
    local campus bookstore, or
    have an educator releative look into it for you.
    ( it's what I did)
    "Everyone has to learn, so that they can one day teach."
    ------------------------------------------------------
    When I'm not here, Where can I be found?
    Urban Mac User
    Quote Quote  
  29. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Hawaii
    Search Comp PM
    $499 is Apple's non-upgrade price; I didn't see one for the upgrade.

    Anyway, my point wasn't about finding the lowest price (which is certainly worth looking for, of course), just that someone on a fairly limited budget will want to remember that video software like FCP, even when discounted, is a significantly more expensive investment than some $15 shareware tool. For instance, it's not uncommon to see DVDSP and ffmpegX mentioned in the same posting, almost as though both are just as affordably available for everyone. That's all.
    Quote Quote  
  30. Member terryj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    N35°25.24068, W097°34.204
    Search Comp PM
    but both are essential to a "videographer's" toolbox,
    if you will.

    While I understand your statement of
    "almost as though both are just as affordable",
    the REALITY of the case is that, in the course of
    helping someone, would you rather we just post
    (a) all shareware at the same price point, even
    if that piece of shareware is NOT right for the
    course of action,
    or (b) point the user in the direction to get his
    questioned answered, with the BEST tools
    for the job?

    I kinda go more for (b) and I dunno, maybe
    EXPECT people to have a little COMMON SENSE
    and look up the tools mentioned in a post to
    help them get back on track
    [ they do come up highlighted in RED for a reason, after
    all ], and use the information to look at the price
    in the "TYPE" listing to see how much it is, to
    determine if they are willing to pay that much to accomplish
    [insert task here]?

    No one said what we do here was going to be
    easy or not cost/free.
    Whether time or money, it always costs SOMETHING.
    just depends on which is worth more to you,
    the individual, i guess....
    *shrugs*
    "Everyone has to learn, so that they can one day teach."
    ------------------------------------------------------
    When I'm not here, Where can I be found?
    Urban Mac User
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads

Visit our sponsor! Try DVDFab and backup Blu-rays!