Toshiba D-R4 or another recorder to buy?

[josetjr]

So far I've done alot of homework and came up with the Toshiba D-R4 as my best choice. I'm looking for a sub $200 total cost recorder. My other options were the Panasonic DMR-ES10S (which I've heard many returned, doesn't create chapters, and no zoom) and Samsung DVD-R120 (which doesn't play SVCD's and doesn't finalize dvd-r's after timer recordings). I've also seen some bad reviews on the Lite-on LVW-5005 and Go Video R6740.

I hope I'm making the right choice with the Toshiba D-R4. My only issue is if it truely plays DVD+R movies (which I have a ton of). What do you guys think?

BTW I plan on doing most of my recording off directv s-video + rca audio.

[gshelley61]

I've got one. So far, it seems like a pretty decent machine. You can get a store return unit off of eBay for about $100. For that price, it is a bargain. Great video recording quality, they added an input video black level adjustment, and you can specify 4:3 or 16:9 (anamorphic) recording... no DV input, though.

I posted a couple of test images here:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1377400&highlight=#1377400

[josetjr]

I've got one. So far, it seems like a pretty decent machine. You can get a store return unit off of eBay for about $100. For that price, it is a bargain. Great video recording quality, they added an input video black level adjustment, and you can specify 4:3 or 16:9 (anamorphic) recording... no DV input, though.

I posted a couple of test images here:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1377400&highlight=#1377400

Cool, thanks for your input. Can you tell me if it plays DVD+R movies?

[gshelley61]

Yes, as long as they're compatible with any typical DVD player.

[ddsdude]

IMHO, you made a good choice! I looked at the same machines before purchasing the D-R4. Actually, my first recorder was a Cyberhome 1600ZU. Total junk! Recordings kept freezing during playback; exchanged it for another one with the same result. Then I tried the LVW-5005 - not too bad but the tuner was virtually unusable. Since I do a lot of recording off analog cable, I use the tuner frequently so this was a deal breaker for me. Some have successfully used external tuners (such as on a VCR) but to me, this is a major PITA and an indication that the 5005 is basically a low quality unit. The other problem I had with the 5005 was that after a while, it stopped recognizing discs that it had no problem with just the day before. Again, more signs of poor quality.

After almost giving up on these machines, I decided to give it one last try with the Toshiba D-R4. I'm glad I did! This is a VERY high quality unit. I've had it for over a month and it is rock solid. The tuner is flawless. I mostly use -RAM discs with it as you get extra features with these such as chase play, watching a recorded program while recording another, advanced editing, etc. I have tested -R and -RW discs and they work fine as well.

One caveat: this unit has not accepted any +RW discs that I have tried, even for playback. It plays +R discs just fine, even though this feature is not documented.

Before buying this unit, I was strongly considering the Panny ES10S but when I compared the features of both, the D-R4 blows the Panny out of the water. People also seem to have tuner issues with the Panny as well as "pixelation" issues at lower quality recording modes (anything less than SP). On the D-R4, the PQ is quite good in the MP and LP modes with virtually no pixelation. Even EP (6 hr) is very watchable.

For me, this unit has been outstanding and I am amazed that it isn't getting more "press". It seems all the forums are full of Panny info. with very little Toshiba coverage.

Hope that helps.

So far I've done alot of homework and came up with the Toshiba D-R4 as my best choice. I'm looking for a sub $200 total cost recorder. My other options were the Panasonic DMR-ES10S (which I've heard many returned, doesn't create chapters, and no zoom) and Samsung DVD-R120 (which doesn't play SVCD's and doesn't finalize dvd-r's after timer recordings). I've also seen some bad reviews on the Lite-on LVW-5005 and Go Video R6740.

I hope I'm making the right choice with the Toshiba D-R4. My only issue is if it truely plays DVD+R movies (which I have a ton of). What do you guys think?

BTW I plan on doing most of my recording off directv s-video + rca audio.

[josetjr]

Thanks for your input ddsdude!!!
I'm gonna buy my D-R4 on Sunday for $149 at BH photo in Manhattan. They're probably cheaper online but I like getting big products in person, just in case of defect as well.

I'm not liking the bad reviews given on the Panasonic Es10s. Where as the D-R4, the only bad reviews are about copy-protection which probably affects all dvd recorders alike.

[lordsmurf]

How does the Toshiba work with PAL discs or PAL signal input? I never tested that out.

[gshelley61]

I just checked... it won't play PAL format discs.

[lordsmurf]

Will it accept a PAL signal input?

[gshelley61]

Don't know... I don't have a PAL format source VCR or DVD player to check that.

[peggypwr1]

Can the DR4 play SVCDs?

[ddsdude]

It definitely does not play PAL. I have an old little DVD player (Norcent DP300) that will play virtually everything (except Divx), so that's what I use for PAL playback (for those rare moments when I need this feature).

How does the Toshiba work with PAL discs or PAL signal input? I never tested that out.

[ddsdude]

Yes.

Can the DR4 play SVCDs?

[B2D327]

I wouldn't recommend this recorder for 2 reasons:

1) It's VERY picky about the blank media you choose to record to. Most rw brands will not format and it won't even recognize some of the brands recommended in the manual (Taiyo Yuden for god's sake?). The only ones I've been able to use consistantly are Maxell dvd-rw.

2) Trying to record programs from a cable signal and even analog vhs tapes stops and gives a "program is copywrited and recorder cannot proceed" message. WTF is the point of having a recorder that refuses to record? 2ndly, I shouldn't have to pay extra for a device that defeats macrovision or any other bullshit. I've just about had it with toshiba crap.

[ddsdude]

I've recorded to the following media with no issues:

Panasonic -RAM
Maxell -RAM
Optodisc -RW
Memorex -RW
Maxell -RW
Memorex -R
Maxell -R

I haven't really tried any others so I can't speak for those but that's not bad, IMHO.

As for recording copyrighted material, that's something most brand name recorders will have an issue with. No Panny will let you record off a macrovision-protected vhs tape either. I believe the LiteOn LVW 5005 has a hack that disables the macrovision protection but who cares - the unit is low quality junk. I transferred all my vhs home movies to dvd without a hitch - did it at LP speed and the PQ is outstanding. Recording off analog cable has given me no problems. Every show/movie recorded as planned. I don't have digital cable so can't speak there.

Companies like Toshiba, Panasonic, Sony and Pioneer are not going to open themselves to litigation by allowing bypassing of copy protection. If you want that, pick up a LiteOn and hack it but be prepared to deal with far worse problems.

You can't have it all.

The bottom line is that is unit just WORKS unlike the Cyberhome and LiteOn crap that I've tried.

I wouldn't recommend this recorder for 2 reasons:

1) It's VERY picky about the blank media you choose to record to. Most rw brands will not format and it won't even recognize some of the brands recommended in the manual (Taiyo Yuden for god's sake?). The only ones I've been able to use consistantly are Maxell dvd-rw.

2) Trying to record programs from a cable signal and even analog vhs tapes stops and gives a "program is copywrited and recorder cannot proceed" message. WTF is the point of having a recorder that refuses to record? 2ndly, I shouldn't have to pay extra for a device that defeats macrovision or any other bullshit. I've just about had it with toshiba crap.

[josetjr]

I just bought a Sony DVD-RW 25 pack but figured to look it up before I opened it. Well I found a review on amazon in which he couldn't get Sony DVD-RW's to format after a few failed tries. I guess I'll take back that Sony pack.

I've gotton my no name OPTODISCW002 working and Panasonic DVD-RAM. The copy protection kinda sux, but I can still record onto RAM and I may get a new DVD-RAM/RW drive soon for my pc.

[ddsdude]

For some reason, I've never used Sony discs so I have no idea what they're like. I've been using Panasonic -RAM for my everyday recording and it works like a dream.

If you want a good -RAM drive for your PC, check out the LG 4163B. I recently installed mine. Picked it up for $55 Canadian. In the US, you can probably find it for around $30.

I just bought a Sony DVD-RW 25 pack but figured to look it up before I opened it. Well I found a review on amazon in which he couldn't get Sony DVD-RW's to format after a few failed tries. I guess I'll take back that Sony pack.

I've gotton my no name OPTODISCW002 working and Panasonic DVD-RAM. The copy protection kinda sux, but I can still record onto RAM and I may get a new DVD-RAM/RW drive soon for my pc.

[JimmyD123456]

As for recording copyrighted material, that's something most brand name recorders will have an issue with. No Panny will let you record off a macrovision-protected vhs tape either.

I understand, as you said, that pretty much all DVD recorders will have copy-protection problems, but I wonder then, why do a lot of people seem to be complaining about it only on the Toshiba DR4?

I'm in the market for my first DVD recorder and became really interested in the Toshiba DR4 as it seems to offer a lot of features for a pretty reasonable price. I then became disappointed when I read very negative things relating to copy-protection on this unit. I read these things in the Amazon reviews, on this forum, and on a couple other forums online, too.

If all DVD recorders have copy-protection, like I said, how come I only keep seeing negative things about this particular unit. I'm sure all recorders have Macrovision issues, but is it possible that maybe the Toshiba DR4 adheres too strictly to the CGMS ("copy once") thing?

ddsdude, you said you transferred all of your home movies to DVD with this unit. Obviously your home movies aren't going to have "copy once" or Macrovision issues. I'd like to hear more input, if possible, from others with the Toshiba DR4. Are you able to record broadcasts from the networks/pay cable/satellite channels, edit them or transfer them to the computer, record them back onto DVD-R, etc. etc.? Are people having problems only with the Macrovision, or is it more the "copy once" thing?

Also, to anyone who knows, how well does this unit work with the Sima CT-2 to break Macrovision and CGMS? Does the Sima work well with it, does picture quality of recordings remain high, etc.? Thanks a lot for any help you can provide.

[josetjr]

If all DVD recorders have copy-protection, like I said, how come I only keep seeing negative things about this particular unit. I'm sure all recorders have Macrovision issues, but is it possible that maybe the Toshiba DR4 adheres too strictly to the CGMS ("copy once") thing?

Probably because that's the only issue that arises with this recorder, where as other recorders have more issues which outweigh similar copy-protection issues. The only problem I run into is that it won't allow me to record HBO onto DVD-RW. But it records onto DVD-RAM and possibly DVD-R (I haven't tried that). BTW I have directv.

So fa so good for only a few days. I just need to get a better TV now, it looks too digital in a sense for my old 27" Zenith. I think it would look better on a new WEGA or something similar.

[lordsmurf]

There is clearly an issue with Toshiba seeing copy protection where none exists. Even on clean signals. It's very anal, and I've heard this complaint for at least a year now. The units are very bitchy with cable boxes and DVR/PVR/TIVO units especially.

[JimmyD123456]

The only problem I run into is that it won't allow me to record HBO onto DVD-RW. But it records onto DVD-RAM and possibly DVD-R (I haven't tried that). BTW I have directv.

Yeah, that's one of the things I've seen people complaining about. Apparently HBO is leading the way with this stupid "copy once" CGMS nonsense (as if hardcore piraters are going to bother with HBO broadcasts...3 months after the movie's already been released on DVD, lol). I wonder why Toshiba (it seems) tried a lot harder than other DVD-RAM machine manufacturers to accommodate the CGMS copy once people.

So anywho, josetjr, now that you've had a little more time to play with it, what are your feelings on the DR4. Great, good, ok, or sucky?

I'm especially curious about the editing abilities with the DVR-RAM. Are you able to record a program and go back after and nicely edit out the commercials and other garbage? I think my real hope is a DVD-RAM machine that can do that well, and then hopefully I'll get a player (stand-alone or on the computer) that can play RAM disks, and then transfer the nicely edited shows over to the inexpensive DVD-R's. Ah, one can dream.

The units are very bitchy with cable boxes and DVR/PVR/TIVO units especially.

Yeah, that's one of the things that worries me. I've got Dish Network and one of their DVR's. Although Dish's DVR's just decrypt the sat. signal between the hard drive and the outputs (and don't introduce any additional copy-protection schemes, like recent reports of TIVOs "red flagging" certain broadcasts), I'm still worried that the Toshiba might go flakey on me with the DVR.

lordsmurf, or any other knowledgeable member here, who do you think would come out on top in a battle between the Toshiba DR4 and the Panasonic ES10 (or 20). I notice josetjr, in his/her original post, mentioned that the Panasonic doesn't create chapters. That sounds rather lame (and frankly, unbelievable!). Thanks a lot for your help/ideas, etc.

[lordsmurf]

The Toshiba has better quality video than Panasonic.

Frankly, a JVC or Pioneer would be a better route. Both have excellent tuners and excellent recording quality. The newer JVC DR-M100S model has no known flaws, and the Pioneer 220/225/230 models are rather easy to find and low cost. Both units run about $200.

[trhouse]

I would be careful about comparing the older Pioneer 220 and 225 to the 230. If the 230 has the same chipset as the new 531; the 531 has a noticeably softer image than the older 320 tested by gshelley61 on this thread.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279460

[ddsdude]

A better route? Hardly. Comparing JVC to Toshiba quality-wise is a joke. Remember the loading bug from the 10S? Quality control is obviously lacking in this company and I simply would not trust their products. The vendors in my area seem to agree as it's next to impossible to find a JVC unit around here.

As for the Pioneer, I don't know about the PQ of this unit but assuming it is comparable to the Toshiba, feature-for-feature, the Toshiba spanks the Pioneer silly. Even the CNET reviewers recommend to look elsewhere for a better bang for the buck.

The way I see it, the DR4 is the best damn unit in its price range assuming copy protection is not an issue for you.

The Toshiba has better quality video than Panasonic.

Frankly, a JVC or Pioneer would be a better route. Both have excellent tuners and excellent recording quality. The newer JVC DR-M100S model has no known flaws, and the Pioneer 220/225/230 models are rather easy to find and low cost. Both units run about $200.

[josetjr]

So anywho, josetjr, now that you've had a little more time to play with it, what are your feelings on the DR4. Great, good, ok, or sucky?

I'm especially curious about the editing abilities with the DVR-RAM. Are you able to record a program and go back after and nicely edit out the commercials and other garbage? I think my real hope is a DVD-RAM machine that can do that well, and then hopefully I'll get a player (stand-alone or on the computer) that can play RAM disks, and then transfer the nicely edited shows over to the inexpensive DVD-R's. Ah, one can dream.

I haven't delved into editing much, but it looks like you can cut out commercials and such on DVD-RAM as long as you mark those as chapter points. Then you can remove those "commercial" chapters.
The manual for this is big! Check it out before buying, I think there's a manuals topic stickied atop this section.
The recording quality is good, though I don't have any other recorder to visibly compare it to.

I also found out my laptop plays dvd-ram, so now its time to search this site for more help and info on this, especially the copy-protected clips from HBO.