Which has better video quality Sony GX300 or Lite on 5005?

[Bridge]

Since my Lite on broke I was thinking about getting a 5005 model because they are semi-cheap. While I hated the washed out, super bright picture it recorded (I have to use a Toshiba with the contrast and brightness turned way down to get it to look normal) I liked the picture quality in general - very smooth - especially with very bad video sources. It seemed like the worse the picture quality was going in the better the video quality was coming out. Especially compared to my Panasonic with has tons of blocks in it. When you freeze the video of something recorded my Panasonic has all of these blocks or block smudges while the Lite on was very clear. I have this Tivo that puts out horrible quality the way I have it hooked up and the Lite on makes the picture very smooth and clear.

Well, I went to the store today just to look at recorders and to my shock I saw the Sony RDR-GX300 on sale for like $280. I thought Sony's were like $500 when I looked at them last. I love the quality of my old Sony vcr and like the quality of my newer Sony so when I saw a Sony recorder in the two hundreds I was not only shocked but am reconsidering getting the cheaper Lite on for the Sony. Especially when I think the Sony is only about $50-80 or even less of a price difference. I just don't know which one has the best video quality? Which creates the closest to broadcast quality? Which one will take a bad video source and make it look great? I know what the Lite on can do because I had one but I have no idea what the Sony can do?

Anyone tried a Sony and a Lite on? Which one has the best video quality?

[gshelley61]

The noise reduction in the Sony units is not that great. The Lite-On, and especially the JVC units (both use LSI encoding chips) do a much better job of analog video noise reduction. The JVC has additional filters that the Lite-On machines don't, and they are better built.

Have a look at the new Pioneer units... the DVR-531, 533 and 633. Their variable Y and C noise reduction filters do a good job, plus there are lots of other input video picture adjustments not included on any other machine (Sony, Toshiba, you name it). Plus, all three have a super high quality 15Mbps hard drive recording mode with a second pass encode to DVD at a lower compliant bit rate... this is an excellent feature. Plus, they can burn dual layer -R discs. I have a new DVR-531H and really like it so far.

I've owned JVC, Panasonic, Lite-On, Sony, Toshiba... I think the new Pioneer units are very well thought out machines for the video hobbyist.

[lordsmurf]

How is Pioneer doing on the chroma noise these days?

[Bridge]

Thanks for the answer. So the cheaper made Lite on looks better than the Sony because of the chip set and filters? Does the same thing go if the video signal that comes in is great? Does the Lite on/JVC still look better or does things even out and the Sony looks about the same?

I'm surprised. I thought a Sony is a Sony. You pay more for the name but you get great (or the best) quality video in return. That's why they can charge more. Plus, I love my Sony vcrs. When I saw a Sony for that price I thought. "Love the Sony quality of my vcrs. Sony is suppose to have about the best video quality in vcrs. Then this must be awesome quality."

P.S. I was REALLY thinking about looking into a Pioneer hard drive recorder for the holiday season. People seem to like or dislike things about just every machine/company but I haven't really read anything here where anyone says anything bad about the Pioneers (except some think it has a weaker picture output.) I know I LOVE the hard drive part of my Panasonic because I can tape like 36 hours strait at SP quality but I hate all of these blocks I get from the video. Even what's recorded on the hard drive has them! So, thanks for the info on the Pioneer too and when holiday season rolls around I'm REALLY going to look into one of the Pioneer hard drive recorders -- unless someone has one here and has real problems with performance and especially video quality and says so.

So you say skip the Sony even though it's a Sony and the price is great for normally excellent quality but over priced Sony's?

[gshelley61]

How is Pioneer doing on the chroma noise these days?

The Y and C (luma and chroma) input video noise reduction adjustments are separate and have 9 setting levels each (from none to progressively more aggressive filtering with each step)... that's more than any other machine I know of. The filters are definitely effective, and unobtrusive (unlike the Sony filters that actually introduce visible image artifacts). I like the fact that you can apply as much or as little filtering as you want to the chroma or the luma signals separately. The JVC filters are really excellent, but they are fairly aggressive.

I'm finding that with the Pioneer I can retain more detail and sharpness in my recordings while applying just as much filtering as necessary, depending on the source. With the 15Mbps hard drive recording mode, even with some film grain still present in the image there are no macroblocks or other compression artifacts that I can see. The second encoding pass to DVD using a lower compliant bitrate setting works very well, producing a finished DVD-Video file with very few artifacts and difficult to distinguish from the 15Mbps recording. Plus, the second encoding pass to DVD occurs in real time, not overnight or 24 hours like with software encoders.

The new input video gamma adjustment (along with the black level setup, variable black level, variable white level, white level AGC, hue and chroma level adjustments) is very handy... a great addition. With some sources, I am able to bypass my Proc Amp and Detailer and just use the Pioneer's built-in adjustments - the results have been impressive. Even the Y/C separation filter is adjustable. Like I said, Pioneer has produced a very well designed machine here with features very helpful to the video hobbyist.

I will say that for noisy VHS sources, the JVC's more aggressive filtering works wonders. The Pioneer on max filtering settings is good, but not quite as good as the JVC in that regard.

However, these Pioneer machines are definitely worth a tryout, LS.

[bbanderic]

If you decide to go with Sony, you might want to look at the new GX315, the replacement for the GX300. I dont know which encoding chip they're using in this model but compared to the GX300, the GX315 has a slim design, firewire input and burns onto DVD +/-R/RW and DVD+R dual layer. Circuit City has them available online for $285 with free shipping.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-DVD-Recorder-RDR-GX315-/sem/rpsm/oid/128221/rpem/c...oductDetail.do

[lordsmurf]

Sony is a waste of money. Especially when they switched over to Cirrus chips.

LiteOn is a good savings of money and a high performance, but not without some flaws.

I would, as always, suggest a JVC or Pioneer unit if you have $200 and want a good unit.

gshelley, I have no idea where to buy a new Pioneer 531. Walmart?

[gshelley61]

The 531 is in some Wal Marts now, depending on where you live. If you want a firewire input, get the 533 or 633 from Vann's or OneCall.

You can get them easily from eBay vendors, too. Just keep in mind Pioneer only honors warranty service if you purchase from an authorized dealer like Wal Mart, Vann's or OneCall. You can certainly save quite a bit getting one on eBay, but you are on your own when it come to the warranty.

[JAB285]

I know I LOVE the hard drive part of my Panasonic because I can tape like 36 hours strait at SP quality but I hate all of these blocks I get from the video. Even what's recorded on the hard drive has them!

Wait a minute. You get the blocks when it's set for SP? I had always thought that blocks only happened when you used the longer record modes.

[JAB285]

gshelly61

Has Pioneer restored all the video settings that were removed from the new 233? Are these settings as good or better than the ones on the old 320/420/520 line?

[gshelley61]

The 531/533/633 models have all the video input and output picture controls of the earlier units, plus a new gamma adjustment. They've also added dual layer -R burning capability, and a super high quality XP+ (15Mbps) hard drive recording mode with second pass encoding to DVD at a compliant lower average bitrate. It appears the analog video processor and the MPEG2 encoder have been improved in terms of recorded image quality, too.

Only the lower end 231/233 (no hard drive) models had those adjustment features removed (probably because for the average entry-level consumer all that stuff is just a bewildering array of settings and is too confusing for them to use properly).

[gshelley61]

I know I LOVE the hard drive part of my Panasonic because I can tape like 36 hours strait at SP quality but I hate all of these blocks I get from the video. Even what's recorded on the hard drive has them!

Wait a minute. You get the blocks when it's set for SP? I had always thought that blocks only happened when you used the longer record modes.

It depends on the source material. Even mildly grainy or noisy video sources will cause some hardware encoders to produce macroblocks and other visible compression artifacts in the SP mode because they are trying to encode the noise while maintaining a two-hour per disc, single pass average bitrate. This also will happen if the source material is high-action, or is hand held camcorder footage (due to the constant motion). Panasonic DVD recorders tend to produce more blocks than some other units do. That's pretty well known.

[pinetop]

I owned two Liteon 5005s, both were junk.
Here we go again:
They jitter, hum, pause during playback, and the recordings look like poo.
I think I'm mssing one or two other flaws.

I have a Sony RDR-GX7, it has been great !
A no contest !
The Sony has way better video quality.

[lordsmurf]

Saying the "recordings look like poo" I would doubt you'd even tried the unit. Or are just exaggerating in anger. The LiteOn puts out a gorgeous image.

Humming on the tuner is an issue. The older LiteOns had no such tuner problem, I have a LiteOn 5001 made in 2003 that works great off the tuner, better than my VCRs in fact! But not these news ones. Though, be it noted, this is a random error that not all people get. It is likely related to the wiring in your home. Since my cable wiring is rather old and haphazard, I cannot complain too loudly.

The Sony has more grain (mosquito noise) and more splotches in the encodes (though not blocks). But it's not bad. Just not the best.

Newer Cirrus chipped Sony units are kind of similar to the quality you'd expect from a Cyberhome or a ESS-chipped Sanyo. Which is not "bad" really, but surely not great.

The Pioneer is another good choice I see missing from the list. And of course, the best machine yet, the JVC units. Definitely gives those a look too.

I actually have a major beef with the Sony RDR-GX7, as the units I tested refused to see used RW media and cannot format an already-used disc. It needed ONLY a new disc or ONLY a Sony-used disc. That really killed it for me, as I used my RW discs all over the place for all kinds of reason. I refuse to keep a special stock or go to extra steps (full format on PC) just for a badly programmed machine.

[pinetop]

Saying the "recordings look like poo" I would doubt you'd even tried the unit. Or are just exaggerating in anger. The LiteOn puts out a gorgeous image.

Don't question whether I tried it. I've own two of these pieces of junk !
And the picture quality is trash. Read my past posts. You are like the only person that defends Liteon. Why ?

I've stated in other posts, I trade boxing dvds and I have been told several times how great my Sony created dvds look. I never get a positive response from a dvd created from the Liteons. Why ?
Because they have a bad picture. You have now just clued in that they hum. Wait till you get the jittery picture, the tint picture, the multiply pauses during playback. These are Liteons are bad.

Lordsmurf stop helping to sell this stuff !

[pinetop]

I actually have a major beef with the Sony RDR-GX7, as the units I tested refused to see used RW media and cannot format an already-used disc. It needed ONLY a new disc or ONLY a Sony-used disc. That really killed it for me, as I used my RW discs all over the place for all kinds of reason. I refuse to keep a special stock or go to extra steps (full format on PC) just for a badly programmed machine.

I can't comment. I have never tried to used RW media. I didn't know other recorders let you use used RW media.

My goal was the best picture quality on a dvd-r. I'm very happy with my Sony.

[lordsmurf]

The jittery picture has not been an issue for a while now. That was confined to a certain number of circumstances that had to come together badly:
(1) Imperfect or weak signal
(2) certain firmwares, usually hacked ones
(3) early production models, mostly 5001, a few 5005's and others stocked with the older 5001 boards

And I am surely not the only person that is extremely happy with LiteOn units (as well as Daytek, Gateway and ILO clones).

The image quality is very clean. VERY VERY CLEAN and FREE OF ARTIFACTS.

As far as me being "just clued in" on the hum, out of maybe 50 LiteOn units I've had access two, only these recent two in my own home have had the hum. After research, it appears to be a combination of things, and one cannot be blamed on LiteOn necessarily. The tuner is not shielded well, so combine that with wiring that isn't 100% perfect, you have issues that arise. So for that, if you require the tuner, don't get a newer LiteOn. Most people can use the VCR as a tuner, or many more have satellite or cable boxes, and therefore need no tuner anyway. The s-video and composite inputs (and RCA audio) are fine.

[pinetop]

Look at other posts. These hum. Not the two I had. Other people have posted the same.
Remember, even if you don't use the tuner, your stuck with a jittery picture, tinted picture, pauses during playback.

I mentioned this in a recent Lordsmurf post. I spoke with two Liteon techs on the hum. One said they had bad tuners. One claimed they had a firmware in the works to correct it.

In addition to the bad product, their service is questionable. As I got two different answers in the same week. Neither tech offered an answer to the jittery picture.

[lordsmurf]

See, I don't know where you're coming up with these:

- The tint was an issue fixed by firmware updates not long after it was identified. This was was somewhat random, not everybody saw it.
- The jittery pictures were pretty much confined to 5001 mainboards, no longer in use, not for a while now. Even then, it was random and not everybody saw it. It was also caused by latter firmwares, especially hacked ones. Earlier ones did not do it.
- Tuner hum is a recent addition that few people seem to hear. That's partially why it's so hard to get people to respond to posts about it, as they never see it. Again, random, and is to a degree tied in with your own coax wiring setup. It is caused by cheap tuner hardware, and it may very well have a firmware fix (likely just to push the audio to overpower the noise, maybe to adjust power consumption in other areas, I really don't know). So they'd both be correct, technically.
- LiteOn support varies. I think they way they let the DC products forum die was chickenshit. Not getting the same answer twice is typical from phone techs, and not answering a question means it's probably their fault. Which the 5001 jitter most certainly was a hardware flaw.
- Pausing during playback is often a media issue. The other problem was fixed in firmware, and I believe in the same one that addresses the green tint. Although, be it noted, this is not an issue I ever recall on the 5005, but rather later units like the ILO DVDR04 clone.

I don't mind pointing out flaws to a product, but let's not over-emphasize the problem. Call it out for what it is.

The tuner would be the deal breaker for a new buyer. Everything else should work fine.

[pinetop]

- The tint was an issue fixed by firmware updates not long after it was identified. This was was somewhat random, not everybody saw it.
- The jittery pictures were pretty much confined to 5001 mainboards, no longer in use, not for a while now. Even then, it was random and not everybody saw it. It was also caused by latter firmwares, especially hacked ones. Earlier ones did not do it.
- Tuner hum is a recent addition that few people seem to hear. That's partially why it's so hard to get people to respond to posts about it, as they never see it. Again, random, and is to a degree tied in with your own coax wiring setup. It is caused by cheap tuner hardware, and it may very well have a firmware fix (likely just to push the audio to overpower the noise, maybe to adjust power consumption in other areas, I really don't know). So they'd both be correct, technically.
- Pausing during playback is often a media issue. The other problem was fixed in firmware, and I believe in the same one that addresses the green tint. Although, be it noted, this is not an issue I ever recall on the 5005, but rather later units like the ILO DVDR04 clone.
I don't mind pointing out flaws to a product, but let's not over-emphasize the problem. Call it out for what it is.
.

Mine were 5005s, and I wasn't over-emphasizing anything. I gave the facts. You make excuses like media ?
I have 6 players. Why was the Liteon the only one pausing in spots ?
I installed the firmware on the phone with a tech. Guess what ?
Jittery, tint picture, humming, pausing.
Your on this forum 24/7 you have never read all the bad posts about Liteon ?
Don't try to soften the issues with these products.

[tac7]

I have to agree with "pinetop" on the LiteOn 5005.

I had a Dec/04 unit, which I returned, and I bought a May/05 unit, hoping that some of the flaws had been addressed and fixed. An e-mail from a LiteOn tech suggested to do that. *But no such luck.

Even after various firmware updates (with and without hacks), the newer 5005 - like the older one - still has a slight greenish tint, tuner hum, very loud front input audio noise, and random jitter from VHS sources no matter whether S-Video or composite inputs are used (you need an additional TBC to correct that).
In addition to the hum, the tuner is basically useless because all channels are of such poor quality, no matter which way the fine tuning is adjusted.

On the plus side, I have yet to notice any macroblocks when recording in HQ or SP mode --- which however is accomplished by creating a pretty washed-out recording.
While this is great for a type of consumer who either can't compare the original with the copy, forgets quickly what the original looked like, or who doesn't care, I much rather have a recording with as much detail as possible, even if it means a noisier and less "smooth" picture.

Again, for those who are less fussy and like the "smooth, washed-out" look, this may be the best DVD recorder around, particularly since it writes to all media, including audio CDs, and if it's just used to record daily soaps, the tuner quality would be good enough. The menus and remote are also well designed and logically laid out. Since macrovision and regions can be by-passed, this is also a great recorder for making user copies for the kids from one's original DVDs, where video quality is not an issue.

Since a primary use for me is transferring home videos to DVD, the LiteOn 5005 is no contender since SP recordings look much worse than S-VHS copies, and in my opinion not even as good as better-quality SP VHS copies.