What's the point of a DVD recorder?

[Pisces225]

In all honesty I think they're cool and if anything I'm looking for an excuse to buy one. Is there anything cool you can do with a DVD recorder that I can't do already with a PC/DVD burner/capture setup? I use an All In Wonder Radeon 9800 Pro to do my captures from TV to my 10K SATA HD and they all look top notch to me. Maybe a recorder will allow higher bit rates or something?

What can I tell my wife is the purpose of wanting one of these?

[yoda313]

Hi,

No I don't think it will be higher bit rate. It should be the same as a capture card.

What would be good with a settop recorder is doing it in the family/living room. That way you wouldn't have to stay in front of your monitor the whole time. Just pop in a blank disc and boom your dubbing.

Of course settops generally have less editing power than a desktop. That would be the main drawback I suppose.

Kevin

[slacker]

I am new to this dvd recorder thing so take this for what its worth. I have only put two dvd recorders through their paces. And neither encoded as well my PC capture card. I am definitely going to try some others, but so far I'm finding more hype than performance.

Something to think about!

[Supreme2k]

The best thing about set-top, IMO, is the ease of transferring VHS and cam videos to DVD. Of course, I then edit on the PC, but the transfer/conversion hassle is gone.

[lordsmurf]

A DVD recorder often uses hardware encoders that are better built that many computer capture cards.

It also requires no computer.

Some of them also have unique filters (such as the LSI encoder chips found in JVC, LG and LiteOn systems) that remove chroma and suppress block noise, things not found in ANY capture card.

And finally, they are moron-friendly. The hardest part is buying a good one (sadly, many people still by the crappy ones), but actually using it is no harder than operating a VCR. Not so for a capture card.

Capture cards are great, but they have been pushed back to the more advanced niche of video, be it for editing, restoring, or non-MPEG encodes. Simple transfers and recordings no longer need the computer.

[hech54]

AC3 audio is one major advantage with DVD Recorders. Yea LPCM sounds better IF you have an entertainment system....but I was never into that.
I'll take my "crappy" old Philips DVDR985 any day over capturing.
Hell I even had a Terapin VCR Recorder years ago...the extent of my computer conversion only went to VCD quality....then I even stopped doing that once my Terapin arrived.

[lordsmurf]

Most MPEG captures are MP2 anyway, and often use inferior encoding methods, as opposed to hardware AC3 encoding.

AC3 is fine. Especially if NO EDITING is needed.

[hech54]

AC3 is fine. Especially if NO EDITING is needed.

You got that right....but it's not so bad once you get the hang of it.

[trhouse]

The recorder is a complete solution, the card a system solution composed of card, software, and computer usually from different vendors.

I still remember a company I worked for in the past threatening customers with "you buy the complete solution from us and we support it; you buy a system composed of parts from us and other vendors, you fix it".

[Srembecki]

I bought an inexpensive Lite-On Recorder and am perfectly happy with it. However, editing with it is totally out of the question since it creates multiple sessions for each pause. But it replaces a VHS for quality and time shifting. It does use any recordable disk out there, be it CD-R(W) or DVD-/+ R(W), whatever. So I've found compatibilty to be no problem. But to edit anything it's back to my computer. Cost was $99 I believe.

[otpw1]

A DVD recorder often uses hardware encoders that are better built that many computer capture cards.
...
And finally, they are moron-friendly. The hardest part is buying a good one (sadly, many people still by the crappy ones), but actually using it is no harder than operating a VCR. Not so for a capture card.

I LOOVE the fact that I can take the DVD+rw from my DVD recorder after its done and have it on my computer in 10 minutes. Then Edit, re-encode, whatever, and burn it as a DVD-rom. This has never failed yet to produce a completely compliant (will play on all that I have) disc.

[lenti_75]

the only good thing is to save vhs tapes fast, or to record something from tv or satellite....

besides that is garbage, no one is far from perfect, you will have problems within couple of months, OR NOT of you're realllllllyyyyy lucky and get a good one.

[slacker]

optw1,

What software do you use to re-author your dvd recorder disc once it gets to the PC? And does it re-encode? And, if so, how does it look? Are you happy with it?

So far I have found that the vobs do not always split accurately, so editing after the fact is a given.

[Marco33]

The best thing about set-top, IMO, is the ease of transferring VHS and cam videos to DVD. Of course, I then edit on the PC, but the transfer/conversion hassle is gone.

Ditto!

[aguillon]

I use a hard disk DVD recorder, and apart from the obvious features that have been listed above, there s one that wins my vote: time-shifting.

You can basically start watching a programme that is still being recorded by the recorder, or in cases where say you have to answer the phone or answer a call of nature, activate time-shifting, which in effects just 'pauses' the telecast for you to watch once you return.

Great feature afaik.

Cheers

[OldAmateur]

I still remember a company I worked for in the past threatening customers with "you buy the complete solution from us and we support it; you buy a system composed of parts from us and other vendors, you fix it".

You characterize it as a threat, but it's not really so unreasonable a postion, is it?

[lordsmurf]

I still remember a company I worked for in the past threatening customers with "you buy the complete solution from us and we support it; you buy a system composed of parts from us and other vendors, you fix it".

You characterize it as a threat, but it's not really so unreasonable a postion, is it?

Sometimes, yes, it is.

[otpw1]

optw1,

What software do you use to re-author your dvd recorder disc once it gets to the PC? And does it re-encode? And, if so, how does it look? Are you happy with it?

So far I have found that the vobs do not always split accurately, so editing after the fact is a given.

For the most part, I edit in dvdshrink in reauthor mode. I don't do menus because I like my players to quit when they are done rather than play a menu for hours on end.
FWIW IMO I LIKE!
Edit almost forgot my silly little trick https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1319348#1319348

[slacker]

optw1,

I was thinking of that this evening. I brought up dvdshrink and started playing with it. Not really an editor but I like the flexibility of being able to merge multiple vobs at will.

After you have finalized your disc, do you ever have problems with the splits between vobs? I find that they are often off by a frame or two?

[Fluffbutt]

I don't know about all of the brands, but a mate of mine has one, I forget the brand, but it ONLY records in it's own proprietry format on the dvd (can't even see any files on the PC, and it only plays in the recorder, not the dvd player..) BAD..

[Beldvd]

What software do you use to re-author your dvd recorder disc once it gets to the PC? And does it re-encode? And, if so, how does it look? Are you happy with it?

So far I have found that the vobs do not always split accurately, so editing after the fact is a given.

No reencoding needed, just authoring (add menu,...)... I use DVDDecrypter to transfert the Movie/TV eps to my PC, then I author with DVDLab or TempGenc DVD Author... Then burn the resulting files...
I've been using this method for almost two years now...

[KeepItSimple]

I love a DVD Recorder because you can turn the power on, hit record and you have a recording, JUST LIKE A VCR, which is the whole point of these things. Otherwise (for me anyway) it's 3 days of messing with it on the PC and never being able to look at it again 'cuz you're sick of it now.

I was originally thrilled at the prospect of working with video on a PC or Mac. The editing part I like, but all the capturing, re-encoding blah blah blah took forever to get some video on a playable dvd and it wore me down to the nub. I thought it would be fun but it was a huge hassle. With a DVD Recorder I can relax and smoke something while the machine does all the work, not me.

[jtoolman2000]

Yes!!!! There is nothing like Real Time Recording as you watch,,,, and not to a hard drive but a DVD-+R disk. I don't believe you can do that with a capture card. There will always be some intermediate steps. The negative side is that it is just that. A simple 1:1 recoding of what you watched on your set be it from the off the air broadcast or VCR / Camcorder connected to the unit. I have one hooked to my digital cable box in one of the rooms of my house. Works well for the occassional show I want to watch later that is not being offered on "On Demand"

[broadway]

I don't know about all of the brands, but a mate of mine has one, I forget the brand, but it ONLY records in it's own proprietry format on the dvd (can't even see any files on the PC, and it only plays in the recorder, not the dvd player..) BAD..

Own proprietary format? More likely VR mode.
search on this forum for more info.

a brand name and model would help

[hech54]

I don't know about all of the brands, but a mate of mine has one, I forget the brand, but it ONLY records in it's own proprietry format on the dvd (can't even see any files on the PC, and it only plays in the recorder, not the dvd player..) BAD..

Own proprietary format? More likely VR mode.
search on this forum for more info.

a brand name and model would help

Two more things....
Finalizing
Read The Manual

[pepegot1]

I use my JVC DR-M10 to capture and the results are startling! Old VHS tapes are cleaned up to an acceptable level. Less time stressing the computer, which I used only for editing and burning to DVD. Fast, good and the way to go. Off course you need a quality recorder like JVC to do the job correctly.

[Pisces225]

Thanks for all the replies, I've really enjoyed hearing everyone's take on what they find most useful about their DVD recorder. One did stick out for me though, and it was this (slightly edited):

I love a DVD Recorder because you can turn the power on, hit record... Otherwise it's 3 days of messing with it on the PC and never being able to look at it again 'cuz you're sick of it now.

I was originally thrilled at the prospect of working with video... I thought it would be fun but it was a huge hassle. I can relax and smoke something while the machine does all the work, not me.

OMG, that so describes me. I do everything I can to not watch anymore of the video than I have to when I'm doing encodes for these very reasons... and smoking something is the only thing that gets me through some parts of the encoding process. And if it's something I've already seen, the motivation to endure it is even less and I find more and more .avi's stored en masse on DVD, unencoded and unwatched because in all honesty audio sync issues, though rare, really get under my skin and can be really painful to fix.

Anyone ever have an out of sync A/V track with something captured with your recorder?

Also, do all recorder burn multiple sessions for each time you pause? Technically this may not be a problem but it just seems 'not good'.

Last question.. in general, do they all capture standard VOB's I can copy to the PC and reauthor, or are there some models that do and some that don't? I think I'm sold on a recorder for the above mentioned reasons, I guess I should go research various 'good' (does that always = expensive in the DVD recorder world?) brands and models.

[yoda313]

Hi,

Last question.. in general, do they all capture standard VOB's I can copy to the PC and reauthor,

Some record in .vro format. Video recorder or something like that.

I don't know which ones do or don't. I'm sure its listed in the dvd recorders list on the left of the screen (the link). Though those can be copied and edited as well its just a little bit different.

But some record in normal .vob files.

Kevin

[DereX888]

well, dvd-recorders are fine for anyone without basic knowledge (i.e. my Mom) and those who want to do it in their living room or tv room.

However computers also provide same solution (i.e. MyDVD software allows for recording directly to DVD-R/RW/RAM if you have cature card and a dvd-writer) and such software is also moron-friendly (i.e. said MyDVD, and Im sure there are other apps).

What is wrong with standalone recorders is their fixed "modes" of recording (SP=2hrs, LP=4hrs etc etc).
It takes about few seconds to setup correct values for video bitrate to have your movie fit exactly and perfectly on a single disc, no matter is it 2hrs 15min or 3hrs long... yes, standalone recorders with built-in hard drives can do it too, but in such case they don't record directly to a disc but they store recording in SP-mode on its own hard drive (much like a computers) and they re-encode it later to fit on a single disc (much like computers again), and after its done they can burn it to the disc (same as PC again).
While on a computer, if you really want to record directly to a disc, you can avoid re-encoding by setting video bitrate values appropriate to the length of the movie you want to fit on a single disc...

I have not found any standalone recorder yet to replace my "PVR/DVR PC" in my living room... The only advantage of such standalone recorders in my opinion is their price, Thay are way cheaper than building a dedicated recording computer in a stereo deck or vcr alike case for the living room (my case alone cost me more than many new standalone recorders cost nowaday lol)
But as usual - cheaper product means less options and most often lower quality.

[gshelley61]

well, dvd-recorders are fine for anyone without basic knowledge (i.e. my Mom) and those who want to do it in their living room or tv room.

However computers also provide same solution (i.e. MyDVD software allows for recording directly to DVD-R/RW/RAM if you have cature card and a dvd-writer) and such software is also moron-friendly (i.e. said MyDVD, and Im sure there are other apps).

What is wrong with standalone recorders is their fixed "modes" of recording (SP=2hrs, LP=4hrs etc etc).
It takes about few seconds to setup correct values for video bitrate to have your movie fit exactly and perfectly on a single disc, no matter is it 2hrs 15min or 3hrs long... yes, standalone recorders with built-in hard drives can do it too, but in such case they don't record directly to a disc but they store recording in SP-mode on its own hard drive (much like a computers) and they re-encode it later to fit on a single disc (much like computers again), and after its done they can burn it to the disc (same as PC again).
While on a computer, if you really want to record directly to a disc, you can avoid re-encoding by setting video bitrate values appropriate to the length of the movie you want to fit on a single disc...

I have not found any standalone recorder yet to replace my "PVR/DVR PC" in my living room... The only advantage of such standalone recorders in my opinion is their price, Thay are way cheaper than building a dedicated recording computer in a stereo deck or vcr alike case for the living room (my case alone cost me more than many new standalone recorders cost nowaday lol)
But as usual - cheaper product means less options and most often lower quality.

Correction. Many DVD recorders can be set to increments of 5 minutes for optimum disc space use (FR or manual mode), so you are wrong about the "fixed" bitrate encoding. Also, most of them employ a variable bitrate encoding method called Hybrid VBR. It is one-pass, but definitely variable, not fixed. Pioneer, JVC, Toshiba all work this way.

The biggest advantage by far of DVD recorders is the time they save. The computer capturing/encoding method can be very time consuming, and the results aren't always that great. You have to know what you are doing, have the right combination of hardware and software, etc.

Another advantage is the analog video sampling and image processing tends to be much higher quality in name brand DVD recorders than it is in most capture cards. The big name companies have been designing and building professional and consumer audio/video equipment for decades, so they have an advantage in this area. In other words, the captured image simply looks better in many cases. Plus, some DVD recorders have video input adjustments that allow for black level compensaton, color, detail, noise reduction, etc. And, as you rightly pointed out, the cost of a decent unit has come way down and is very affordable. The resulting DVD compliant MPEG2 video files can be edited and re-authored quite easily on the computer if one wants to, and the audio is already AC3 to boot.

DVD recorders have many advantages, but the bottom line is that excellent results can be obtained from them without lots and lots of work, and without the steep learning curve that computer methods require. In fact, I can't remember the last time I captured to the computer.