Very discouraged with TBC-1000

[justinluck]

I originally purchased the JVC 9911 SVHS deck to transfer VHS tapes to my computer. While I am pleased with its audio quality and color reproduction, it causes horrible vertical rolling and jitter that aren't found on my old VCRs.

(I don't want to use the old VCRs b/c they produce horrible buzzing sounds and white specs in the picture).

After reading on this forum, it appeared that the Panasonic ES10 dvd recorder and the TBC-1000 are good units for minimizing vertical rolling and jitter.

Well, last weekend, I purchased the Panasonic ES10 from Bestbuy. So I then had a setup like this:

JVC 9911 --> Panasonic ES10 --> DVICO Fusion HDTV3

To my dismay, the Panasonic did nothing to help stabilize the picture. Is there something I am supposed to turn on first in the Menu? Or do I just turn the unit on and its supposed to work automatically?

So...after reading so many good things about the TBC-1000 and how when it is combined with the Panasonic, it can correct vertical jitter, I ordered it out of desperation to decrease the vertical rolling.

Well, the unit arrived and then I setup my links all with S-video:

JVC 9911 --> Panasonic ES10 --> TBC-1000 --> DVICO Fusion HDTV3

And do I see any difference at all? No =-(

I mean, I really can't even tell if the TBC-1000 is working or not. All it has is a power switch. And I know the unit has to be on for the video to be outputted. But I don't see ANY improvement in the vertical rolling, jumping, jitter...whatever the correct terminology is...

The Panasonic recorder cost $200, the TBC-1000 was $300. That's $500 worth of equipment with no evidence of improvement in stabilizing the picture.

As you can probably understand, I am very discouraged right now. These videos are very important to me. They are home videos of my family when I was a small child in the 1980's.

What is so frustrating to me is that the picture quality itself looks great. Hardly any distortion and color looks pretty good. BUT the vertical rolling that keeps occuring every few seconds and some times lasted for up to a minute makes the videos unwatchable.

Again, these same tapes play without as much vertical rolling in the old VCRs, but the picture quality is not as good, and those VCRs output a buzz along with the audio for some reason.

For those of you who own the TBC-1000 and/or Panasonic ES10, do you have any suggestions?? Lordsmurf, DVWannaB any thoughts? Thanks for listening.

Justin

[edDV]

The problem is the tapes were recorded on VCRs that were out of alignment.

Two ways to proceed

1: Use original (out of adjustment) VCR to play the tape

2: Buy a book on VCR alignment and the needed hammers and tension springs etc. and deliberately misadjust your new machine so that it can track the old tapes.

Be sure to buy a standard alignment tape so you can adjust it back to nominal.

[gshelley61]

First, a couple of questions about the JVC HR-S991U. Your settings (in the menu) should be picture on Edit, Stabilizer off, R3 off. Then try playing your tapes with the VCR hooked directly up to a TV (not to your DVICO Fusion HDTV3). Turn the TBC/DNR on and off to see how the image looks on the TV.

If it turns out that the tapes look fine when the VCR is hooked up directly to a normal TV, then it would appear that may be having some trouble with the DVICO Fusion HDTV3 s-video input "not liking" what it is being sent.

Also, if playing the tapes in the 9911 hooked up to a TV turns out to look OK, then since you have that Panasonic DVD recorder... try hooking up the 9911 to the ES10 and record straight to a DVD-RW to see what happens.

Or, if none of that works out - I think edDV has it. Your tapes may have been recorded on a misaligned VCR.

[justinluck]

edDV, you are making me even more depressed. LOL Might be the cold truth though.

The videos were recorded with an old, old RCA camcorder from the early 1980's. I don't know if any of you remember this, but it was the type where you had to lug around the VCR on your shoulder while it was hooked up to the camera unit. I wouldn't be at all suprised if that old VCR was aligned differently than the VCRs made today. I just wish VCRs were capable of aligning themselves to work with these old tapes.

I'm definitely learning that people who are growing up in the 2000's with all these digital camcorders don't know how good they have it!

Gshelley, I'll be sure to try what you suggested. The only problem is finding a TV to test it on, as my monitor/PC serve as my TV

That is one of the reasons I was so desperate to get that Sapphire Theaterex 550 card working as noted in my other thread.

[lordsmurf]

You may have to search hard for a VCR that works or PURPOSELY misalign a VCR yourself. I've done that too.

[justinluck]

So in what cases does the TBC-1000 correct vertical rolling / jumping?

As for misaligning a VCR, I'm sure you can understand me having reservations about doing that to my $350 JVC 9911.

[lordsmurf]

Get a $30 VHS unit from Fry's or Walmart. Those ORION and other no-names are often misaligned right away. Magnavox actually uses some sort of non-standard alignment on their VCRs. Maybe your tapes would play in one of those.

When the tape is tracked correctly and still has errors, the other equipment will fix it. But no amount of equipment can overcome tracking issues. That's what you have: tracking issues.

SHARP VCRs are pretty aggressive too, in terms of playing tapes. Maybe it can be tracked in there.

Track the tape, play it to a new S-VHS tape in SP mode on the JVC. Record a new tape. Then play back the S-VHS tape and give it the filter treatment to restore the video quality.

[vhelp]

Try and find an old style vcr from early days of the 80's that have one
of those "manual" tracking knobs. I recall an old GE brand vcr we used
to have, and it had three speeds, for instance. If you recorded in EP or
LP, and played it back, but forgot to "manually" change the speed, and
depending upon the speed that switch was set to, the video would play
really fast, or really slow. You have to understand.., that back in those
days, it was cool and funny to see this on our tv sets. I'm talking 1981'ish
or so. Those days were the "manual" days. Everything was manual.
Pressing the buttons to play/record/ff/rw; tracking; tape speed; even the
tape was top load, you had to press that one day (sometimes hard) to get
it working, and to top that off, it was 35lbs of hot curcuits. If memory
recalls correctly, my very first movie ever seen on one of these machines
was "Superman", and "On Golden Pond" and one more with that Dr. guy
from the tv series, "Mash" though I forget the movie. Anyways.

Fine one of these dinosors on ebay. And, test this theory out about the
tracking knob. Hopefully, it will work.

But, fwiw.., I have a few movies that missbehaves too. Then, I found out
that my ADVC-100 cures those rolls at the top of the video that were
giving me trouble. I don't know if this is what you are experienceing, but
it could be a consideration.
.
The ADVC-100 is not a TBC (though some seem to think it is)
At best, I would say it is a Line-Based Sync curcuitry maybe. Anyways.

Good luck,
-vhelp 3352

[justinluck]

Anyone have experience with this Sharp VCR?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006FXF5/qid=1117326898/sr=8-2/ref=pd_...onics&n=507846

It got mixed reviews on Amazon.

Another thing for the vertical rolling: I notice that it occurs almost every time the camcorder was stop and started. Meaning, the person was recording and then stopped recording, and then started again a few minutes later. But if the person recorded for a long enough time (1-2 min) the vertical rolling starts to go away. So is it misaligned only when the person started recording after the tape was stopped?

[justinluck]

Well, when I talk about vertical rolling, what I mean is, the picture moves upward and a black bar appears at the bottom of the screen.....and underneath the black bar is what was the top portion of the screen. Is this what you guys have had problems with too?

[vhelp]

Ok. No. This is not what I was refering to. I was
refering to how the video at the top curls.

Sorry for misunderstanding you.

-vhelp 3353

[justinluck]

Ok, so would the whole picture jumping up and or combined with fast vertical vibrations be a tracking problem too?

[lordsmurf]

Are you sure this isn't a PAL tape?

[justinluck]

LOL, no, it was recorded on an old RCA vcr / camera combo. The VCR was lugged around with a shoulder strap while the user carried the camera portion in their hand.

[jolphil]

HI,
As most have suggested,your problem sounds(from a retired VCRtech) like the tape was recorded on a machine with the tape guides out of proper adjustment..This usually results in a jumping condition because the vertical sync pulsesgenerally are the first to be supressed or missing altogether..
I also prefer the manual old tracking over the newer automatic type just so you can sometimes compensate for a prexisting condition like this..Unfortunately they are only on older machines..I do not advise this procedure preformed on your new hi priced JVC
model, but if you have a low priced older machine remove the top cover and also any shielding around the head assembly and load a tape that jumps..Notice that you have two guides that wrap the tape around the heads in "play"...Looking from the front of the vcr the left guide usually affects the top of the picture whereas the right guide usually affects the bottom of the picture..
The adjustment tool used is a flat screwdriver with a center section missing but if you are very very carefull you can use a standard flat screwdriver to adjust the guides..Note the position of the guides and write it down so you can always come back to the starting point.
While viewing the picture carefully move the adjustment no more than 1/8th of a turn at a time and note if the picture improves or gets worse..
Generally the right guide causes more trouble the the left but that is not always the case..If you are lucky and do not damage the VCR by some kind of "slip" of hand, you may compensate for the "out of spec recorded tape".. All shops employ a standard callibration tape where the magnetic recording is perfect..That way all VCRs are set to the same standard..This procedure is dangerous for the obvious fact that a mechanical slip can cause you to wipe out the machine,and because of the electric involved, can cause a shock hazzard..So beware ...The other possibility is to let a pro do this for you if you do not feel comfortable about it ..
Why does this happen in the first place?..Generally the tape guide position
adjustment usually is set properly at the factory(least they used to be) but because the guide locking screw may not secure enough , the tape friction on the guides, may sometimes after use, slowly rotate the guide or guides out of adjustment..If this happens you will not generally notice the effect if you play back tapes recorded on your machine but only ones recorded by another machine ..I hope this was some help in understanding your problem..
GoodLuck,
jolphil
PS I just ordered a JVC-SR101US model and hope it performs better than you described above..
BTW, once the sync is trashed from a badly recorded tape, Very little that I know of can correct this in a stand alone box..Maybe some video expert knowes of a device..That may be why your TBC-1000 did not seem to help you..
Edit,afterthought..Can you borrow machines from family or friends that
can produce better results?