I can live with a 30 hour encode if the quality is fantastic

[mkirk]

Please help me oh great forums...

I have made about 75 coasters in trying to get perfect results in producing an XSVCD. Here are my specs:

400Mhz processor
512 Ram
30GB HD (7200 rpm)
Windows 2K
AIW pro capture card

When I encode for XSVCD using TMPGenc I use a constant bit rate setting of 1900 as I have finally figured out the maximimum my JVC player (http://www.vcdhelp.com/dvdlist/621.html) can handle is 2100 total bps (so I backed off to account for the sound).

The result is a sometimes very blocky XSVCD that looks like crap during some scenes on my 32" TV. (When I say crap I mean of course crap for video-heads like the people on this site). I have TiVo so would love the quality to be as good as that produces (after all it's MPEG 2, right?)

Since the process sometimes takes 30 hours to process 30 minutes of video (I know I have a sucky pc) I am hesitant to accept crappy or less than stellar quality.

What is the highest quality setting that assures I stay under 1900 bps so don't have skipping? I can live with a 30 hour encode if the quality is fantastic.

HELP!

mk

[Macros746]

If the blockiness bothers you why not try an XVCD? Does your player support that? If you up the bitrate it will give you less blocks than an XSVCD.

Macros

[thenewboy]

mk,

I don't know about max bitrate for DVD players. But you could use Sefys TMPGEnc Template. It uses the vcd setting but under MPEG2. I heard its pretty good in quality. I guess if you picked XSVCD, you should have your reasons and Sefys Template allows you to do what you need as if you're making a XSVCD only with a smaller file size. Jordan

PS. Did you use the bitrate cal. to max your cd and could that be played?

[Sefy]

Since he wants XSVCD, my Template is no good for him, because it's SxVCD, it's based on VCD, which means lower resolution, he wants higher quality then VCD.

[mkirk]

Since my 350x350 avi is lossless - is there ANY setting that can give me ample quality without adding bit rate?

Has any one used the "Constant Quality" setting? What's the highest quality setting knowing my constraints on bit rate?

-mk

[vhelp]

mkirk,

Sorry, but you GOTTA be crazy with that 30 hours crap!

But, after reading you whole post, I realize you have a slow cpu.
Either you're a teenager (jobless) or, you just don't want to spend
any money on a new cpu/mb upgrade! Come on, you don't have
to buy an XP or P4 (lotta p'ss here) - just go out and get a cheap
mb that will at least support 1gig or something and like a 900mhz
cpu chip or something similar to up up the encoding times!
...come'on!!
Are really jobless?

As far as 350x350. Sorry, but what the hell are you downling that
gotta be soo good that you have to burn it to SVCD or VCD anyways?
Just doesn't make sense. I'm assuming you have a fast connect,
cause you're seem to be in the SVCD or VCD hobby thing, and not
interested in making your own VCDs or SVCDs by Capturing with a
capture card. Come on now, ...encoding other peoples non-standard
crap resolution clips gotta be low. Do you think really think you'll
enjoy the movie, once burned to CD? I'd love to see what all these
clips are like (quality) for someone to really want to encode these
kinds of clips in the first place - and at 30 hours? Mannnnn! ...and
on a really slooooo system! Mannnnnnn! What's wrong with this
picture? I gotta get out of here cause this is burning some of MY
fuses just thinking about it - SORRY! Mean no dissrispect!

Later! @#$(*_(83$! ...too late, just blew a fuse, boing!!

Update - -
ok, ok, so I made a mistake! Sorry! I re-read your post
again. I guess you are capturing after all. But, are you
capturing at 350x350? and why? I don't understand. or
did you make a typo (like me) (two in a row?)
Anyways, sorry. But, still the encoding times are sucking
big-time over there!

Later guy.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vhelp on 2001-12-13 18:39:18 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vhelp on 2001-12-13 18:40:09 ]</font>

[spidey]

OK,

If you want to up your picture, I am guessing your getting blockiness on action or motion scenes, right ? That's what it sounded like since you said only sometimes. If your max vid bitrate is 2100, I'd use and open template of an SVCD, set it for Variable Bitrate (VBR) with a Constant Quality of like 85 %, with the bitrate of 1900 max, 1750 minimum (VBR CQ 85 Mpeg 2). Then set your audio presumably to 224 x 44100 Mpeg 2.

This will let you have a rising and falling variable bitrate to compensate on the video scenes, while keeping the bandwidth high, while not going over your maximum total bandwidth for your disc space.

Hope this helps....

[mkirk]

Ok vhelp- first of all, your post sounded like you had way too much caffine. I appreciate the response nonetheless... (these forums have gotten me very far)

30 hours IS awful and I will get a new cpu... eventually. Until then what I do is go to WORK (not a teenager- sadly) and connect via VNC to control my PC over the internet and monitor progress and/or start new encodes - etc. So believe it or not I can live with 30 hours if the quality is great.

This is sort of a hobby - but more an obsession. I have TiVo and would love the next logical extension of that convenience which includes the ability to export this content onto a high-quality format for later watching and for my own library.

On capturing...
I capture at 350x350 through my AIW Pro card because it is the highest resolution I can grab without dropping frames. As I said, the resulting .avi is lossless (huffy codec).

So give me some help vhelp! How do I get high quality S/X/VCD's without going over 2100kbs (my player max)? My source is Tivo material, videos and direct cable tv connection.

-MKirk

[vhelp]

mkirk,

oops, you made a boo-boo, he, he...

What a strange setup you have, but oh'well.

It's my hobby too! I like caping crap too! he, he.....

I cap from Satalette too (directv) and get very good results, as well
as you are too, but 350x350... I don't know. But, your avi, I'm sure
looks good at that res.

I'd love to have me a TIVO, but can't afford $200, I think. And, I think
that its not gonna work for me like a VCR? That is, can I press a button
and make it start playing a certain movies/tv show and even at a
certain spot, and maybe replay/repeat a scene over and over again vs.
doing this with a DVD player (as I do, during my testings)???

I see you limiting facter (2100 per'yre dvd plyr)

Anywas, If you can get 352x480 out of your caps - I mean, set it up that
way, you would have GREAT captures AND encodes!

Tell me, what are your settings for Huffy codec, and exactly which app
are you using for capturing?

You see, you have an odd res nXn and it kind'of throws off your screen
ratio a bit, when you encode to 480x480 or 352x480. Hay, you didn't
say what exactly R U encoding to -- 352x480 or 480x480. if 480x480,
then try 352x480 and see if that helps qith quality AND with encoding
times!

Oh, and I only had one cup of coffee today!

I'm in a VERY bad mood because all the site where I house my sample
clips have ben "access denied" 'd me! And, to add to my misery, I found
some clips were deleted! Not by me, but by someone else, AND strangely
enough, they deleted kind of strange, ie, I have RAR/R00/R01, ect
and they would delete RAR and R00 but leave R01 or delete all my RAR's
and leave the last one there. Sounds kind of kookee to me!
I haven't figure out what to do though. Cause I've searched high and low
for web site storage, and I've even emailed explaining to these owners
what I was doing (housing my clips there (legally I hope) ) and not selling
them, and asking if it was violating there rules, etc. and they havne't responded
with yes/no, so, that made feel it was ok.
Also confusing is, if it were a violation of their rules, there rules are simly to
delete ALL files and close account!! That hasn't happend AND I can get to my
sites and delete/add files still. But, I can't get to them for D/L via the web
or link or what-have-ya.

Yeah, I'm plumb mad! Grin!

Later - Oh, but hope everything goes well with my suggestions. If I'm not in too
bad a mood, I'll check back!

Have fun. . .

[Sefy]

mkirk, this isn't usually my area, but here is a small suggestion that might help boost your capturing ability, get PicVideo JPEG codec, unlike huffyuv which is rather non-flex, the PicVideo has more controls, and gives about the same quality and smaller file sizes, and is less intensive, you might be able to capture at decent resolution (480x480) without the dropping of frames.

[mpack]

mkirk - have you experimented with filtering the video with VDub? If you removing salt and pepper noise and ease some of the edges with a *light* spatial filter then this may help you get more bang for your bitrate...

[mkirk]

Thanks again vhelp... here's some more info. for all of you responding (thanks).

I capture using V'dub (of course) and have modifyied my registry so this actually works with the AIW pro. I capture at 350x350 for two reasons:
1) Through all kinds of testing I found that this was the highest res. I could capture at the 1:1 ration without dropping frames.
2) I am encoding to 480x480 - so I assumed to keep proportions right, I would keep the same 1:1 ratio (I've tried others e.g., 352x240 but assmumed more vertical res is better)

I have both the Huffy and PicVideo codec and have used both with mixed results. I ALWAYS have the highest settings on either because as you remember I am obsessed with quality. So my HUFFY settings are:
Under the YUY2 drop-down - Predict Median (best)
Under the RGB drop-down - Predict Gradient (best)
This is version 2.1.1 of Huffy

I have also used PicVideo codec but don't like the weird effect on movement in scenes (not blocky but diff. effect). My settings in PicVideo Mjpeg codec are:
Quality Setting - 20 (highest)
Everything else is at the default.

Can I assume that if my cpu could capture higher res. I would not get blockiness on the encode? (or it would help)

ENCODING
--------
In TMPGEnc I have experimented endlessly with the settings. I have used CBR of 1900 (because of my DVD constraint of 2100) - I used VBR 2-pass with a max of 1900 - and now I use CQ (contstant Quality). No matter what the setting I get blockiness in high motion scenes.

**** If disk space and process time were not an issue, what is the highest quality setting in TMPGEnc which will avoid blockiness and be closest to DVD (although I understand less than DVD) *****

I chose XSVCD to get the MPEG-2 encoding. I assume MPEG-2 will be higher quality than MPEG-1. My only constraint is bit-rate of my DVD player being 2100bps. The funny thing is I assume if it can play DVD's it can get the information fast enough - so theorettically my encode process SHOULD be able to produce something that looks great under that bit-rate.

Is the bottom line the capture? Do I just need more pixels captured? Is blockiness a result of not enough resolution?

Thanks all!

mkirk

[Sefy]

From everything you just mentioned, I believe your capture is the only set back you are having, I suggest you try (I know you don't like, but trying never hurts!) to capture using PicVideo and reduce the quality level to 16 (or 1 and then try to cap at 480x480 or higher, and see if you are losing frames.

Your capture is NOT in any standard, it may be higher then 352x240, but it's not 480x480 either, and you do not capture the full vertical quality either! that is to what I believe is your MAIN quality issue here! even if it looks good on the play back, the encoder does not have all the required info to encode