Yet Another Clueless Newbie Starting Out, Looking For Advice

[izzi]

Hi all,

This is my first post here and after looking over numerous forums on this subject, I decided this is the one to cast my lot with.

First off I want to say that I have read the FAQs (hopefully I haven't missed one) and searched this forum for informative posts. I hope this post isn't too ambiguous or "general" but at this point I have alot of things to narrow down.

I have never shot video of any kind although I am accomplished at still photography.

My goal is to produce edited, finished DVDs of my hobby, automobile drag racing. I am moved to do this because both I and many friends and people I know put a lot of time, effort and money into their racing pursuits. So it makes sense that we all would like to have the best documentation of these efforts. But for the most part what I have seen is shaky, poorly composed and edited "home movies".

I would like to take this to another level.

So far this is where I am at. I am looking at the Panasonic AG DVC7 and on eBay I have found some packages which also include auxiliary lenses such as this one.

Also I have friends who use the Pinnacle 9 software for editing but I know there are other programs out there.

I believe my computer can handle the task of editing as it has an AMD 1800+ cpu with 1GB of DDR and plenty of drive space.

I am just looking for advice and direction rather than complete step by step or point by point answers. I have no problem doing my own leg work but with 0 experience it is sometimes hard to sort out all of the technical information available.

I hope this post does not run afoul of any forum rules by it's nature and I look forward to benefitting from your wisdom.

Ken

[Krispy Kritter]

The biggest problem I've seen with home video of this type, isn't that the picture quality is bad or that a cheap or badk camera was used, it's the fact that they are shot free hand. That's what causes the constantly moving and shaky picture. So my advice would be to purchase a tripod and practice your filming.

As for editing, there are many software packages that can be used to do what you are trying to do. Just take a look over in the tools section. They range from free to hundreds of $. There are typically guides to help you work out issues. The big thing is to just get a program or three and spend a little time playing around with them. I've seen talented people do amazing things with the simplest of programs, and I've seen complete garbage from people trying to use $500 programs.

I would suggest just playing around with different programs until you find one that suits you.

[izzi]

The biggest problem I've seen with home video of this type, isn't that the picture quality is bad or that a cheap or badk camera was used, it's the fact that they are shot free hand.....snip....

Thanks for your reply, your points are well made. I am planning on getting another tripod more suited for this work compared to the one I use for still work. And I think a monopod will be useful also. I hear you about the software also. This is a good way to narrow things down to a final choice, I had hoped to weed out some of those which end up being a waste of time. But for the final selection usually only the user can decide what will work best.

Thanks again,

Ken

[Epicurus8a]

IMO, a lot of the software available is garbage, especially the all-in-one suites (bloatware). Before you spend any $$$ do a LOT of reading, and whenever possible check out the free downloads. Doing this will save you time, money, and grief.

I haven't tried Pinnacle 9, but I did try an earlier version and didn't find it to my liking. Vegas Movie Studio seems to be popular. Personally, I like to edit with Womble MPEG VIDEO WIZARD, and author with Ulead DVD Workshop 2 or TMPGEnc DVD Author (for the simpler stuff). Ulead also offers editing software that is probably worth looking into: Ulead Videostudio 9.0.

Grasping the techinal aspects of video/DVD can be frustrating. (i.e. Frame rates, Bit rates, Resolutions, GOPs, etc.) Once you get a handle on this, you'll be very happy.

One final word. For the fewest problems later on, use quality media; Taiyo-Yuden is my pick. Always purchase Japanese discs and remember to check the package for the words "Made in Japan." If it says "Made in Taiwan," you're getting B grade (or lesser) discs. Besides Taiyo-Yuden, look for Maxell, Fuji, TDK, & maybe Sony. Check the link below:
https://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia

Good Luck!

[izzi]

Thanks Epicurus8a,

I will check out the software you mentioned and continue to look for info regarding the technical aspects of this art. And I guess in time it will become more clear to me exactly what the differences between "editing" and "authoring" are. So far my impression is editing is getting the raw "footage" into a usable form and authoring is putting it together along with titles, music etc...

Also, thank for the comments about media. It would have never crossed my mind to look for anything specific, just grab what the drug store has on sale. (I can imagine the cringe at that statement)

Thanks again,

Ken

[Snakebyte1]

Hi..

IMO, it is the initial filmwork and planning that determines the end results of the project far more than the editing software. You can add all kinds of fancy transitions and special effects but that rarely will improve poor source footage. (I mean poor in the creative sense not just video quality)

As mentioned, a tripod is a must to avoid shakes and wobbles. Also stay away from zooming (nothing says AMATURE like video that zooms in and out and in and out). Panning can be useful but not too much, and it will take some practice to get the right look. In your case you need to practice panning the camera on the tripod while following a fast moving subject. Pay attention to lighting to keep proper exposure -watch out for backlighting issues and shadows.

When it comes time to edit it, do not go overboard on the special effects. I see people trying to use every transition effect they have in one video. Pick a few effects that enhance the project, such as as slow-motion of a burn out, but don't try to impress you viewers with effects as it takes away from the real subject.

It would also help if you plan out your shots before hand, have a good idea of your project from start to finish before actually filming., create a rough script even.

There are many good books avialable on Introductory film making that can give you some good rules to follow. If you don't want amature results then approach your project as if you were a professional filming a documentary.

D.

[izzi]

I hear you Snakebyte1,

I was trained in or come from the "old school" of still photography and studied the likes of Henri Cartier-Bresson and his concept of "the decisive moment" and a minimum of after exposure manipulation rather than relying on special effects to create an image. Even cropping an image was frowned upon. Let the image elements speak rather than manipulation.

Having said this I do realize that an event that covers 1,320 feet can't always be covered from one view point so I have thought out different points of view combined into a document of each run. This will have to be done either with multiple runs from different view points or multiple cameras. And if I do go with a camera that has the format of the Panasonic I mentioned in my original post there may be a consistancy problem if I must enlist the help of others with smaller cameras that have more of a "box" format.

And a script or "story board" is certainly a good idea.

Thanks for your input,

Ken

btw, here is some of my still work. Oh, and as product shots the two computer pics aren't that good, they're in there because I built them.

[Epicurus8a]

Lovely photos. No doubt you already have a feel for movement, too. You should do quite well in your new pastime.

This place is a wealth of information. Once you learn how it's organized, they'll be no stopping you.

<edit> "Editing" is basicly preparing your video files for your computer. "Authoring" takes those files a step further and prepares them for DVD, and (optionally) adds menus, chapters, etc. Some programs try to do some (or all) of each. Ultimately only you can decide what is right for you, but you already know that.

Good Luck!

[izzi]

Lovely photos. No doubt you already have a feel for movement, too. You should do quite well in your new pastime.

This place is a wealth of information. Once you learn how it's organized, they'll be no stopping you.

<edit> "Editing" is basicly preparing your video files for your computer. "Authoring" takes those files a step further and prepares them for DVD, and (optionally) adds menus, chapters, etc. Some programs try to do some (or all) of each. Ultimately only you can decide what is right for you, but you already know that.

Good Luck!

Thanks for the kind words.

This place is a wealth of information. Once you learn how it's organized, they'll be no stopping you.

This is why I decided to sign up here. After looking around for a short while it was evident that there are many knowledgable members here. And being an autumn rather than a spring chicken it's to my benefit to find information in the most efficient way possible and this is one of the best.

I plan to share the results of my efforts here in an effort to continue to learn.

Ken

[daamon]

Hi izzi,

Welcome to the forums and the site.

You've already been provided with a wealth of information, so I'll add what little I can...

A really good site for video camera info, reviews and opinions (there's a forum too) is www.camcorderinfo.com - they'll probably even be able to comment on lenses, shooting etc. too.

For really sharp colour, you want to look at 3-CCD cameras (the Panasonic in that auction has one). That's not to say that one-chip cams are bad, just that 3-chip are better. The reason being is that each of the three chips is solely dedicated to processing each of the three primary colours, whereas a one-chip cam does all three on one chip (of the same-ish size).

It depends how serious you think you're gonna be with this - fork out the cash from the start and get a really good cam, or pay less to see if you like it and then fork out for a better cam later. It might be worth checking out other cameras and see what you can get for your money.

This old(ish) post of mine may well be of interest, including the link (right towards the end of my post) to a much older post of mine.

www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1107545#1107545

As for video editing software, there's a whole plethora of apps out there that range from free to (very) expensive, as well as crap to awesome - not neccessarily linked to price either. Only you can judge what suits you in terms of budget, functionality etc. But here are a few that are regularly referred to (in no particular order):

Adobe Premiere Pro (I've upgraded to this recently - awesome!)
Avid Free DV
Avid Xpress DV
Ulead Videostudio
Vegas
Wax 2 (sounds interesting, never used it)
Zwei-Stein (sounds interesting, never used it)

Also, not video editing, but may come in handy for your work, is Bluff Titler.

Once all the editing is done (arrangement of video clips, adding transitions, adding audio etc.) you'll then need an authoring tool. I've referenced the popular ones in the link I gave above. Here are some more of the common ones (again, in no particular order):

Adobe Encore
Sonic ReelDVD
Ulead DVD MovieFactory
Ulead DVD Workshop

A whole selection of apps for editing and authoring, as well as a whole range of other stuff, can be found in the "Tools" section.

Hope that helps, good luck, and welcome top the dark side...

P.S. Great pics of yours - especially the lady in the last one...

[izzi]

Thanks for the input daamon,

The folks over at www.camcorderinfo.com seem to think the Panasonic AG DVC7 pretty much sucks.

Anyone have any recommendations in the same neighborhood in a 3-CCD camera?

Ken

[daamon]

Hi izzi,

I've recently bought a Canon XM2 - the PAL equivalent of the GL2 in the US. It's an awesome camera. I've just looked, and there a fair few on eBay.

Normal warnings apply (make sure it's working, well looked after etc.)...

Here's an example... (<--- Click)

Happy hunting.

[izzi]

Ok, since the subject of 3-CCD vs 1-CCD cameras was brought up I've done alot of research and it would seem that if one were making a living with video it would be a no brainer, 3-CCD all the way. I've seen alot of specs quoted showing how much better it is. But in real world terms, is there a greatly noticable difference to the average viewer?

Of course visual professionals will see the difference because we look (stills in my case, I am by no means a pro with vid) with a critical eye but what about John Q. Public, will he notice a difference? I guess the true test would be seeing identical scenes shot with both displayed side by side.

What do you think?

Thanks!

Ken

[daamon]

But in real world terms, is there a greatly noticable difference to the average viewer?

What do you think?

I had a single chip Sony miniDV cam initially - at the time it was considered one of the better ones on the market. I was shooting video for a few years and made the odd DVD (couple of weddings for friends etc.) and was well chuffed - thought the pics looked superb.

Then I got my XM2 and recently did a friend's wedding with that - the colour reproduction looks so much more "natural", it felt as if you were really there rather than watching it on a TV.

So, personally, I'd say "Yes" I can definitely spot a noticeable difference. Of course, it's not just about the 3-CCD, but also the size of the chips, the quality of the lens etc. etc.

This thread will be of interest - I know it's about the GL2 (XM2), but the first post has a screenshot showing "natural" looking colours.

Later in the thread are comments about 3-CCD Panasonics that are cheaper, and approaching the same quality.

Hope that helps...