Formatting DVD recorder hard drive

[ann coates]

I have a lot of clips on my hard drive recorders (a Panasonic E85 and a Pioneer 520) and will soon be deleting everything. Should I delete the items or format the hard drive to delete them?

Also, how long does a format usually take?

[canon10d]

With regard to the Pioneer unit, unless you have the service remote, there isn't a way to format the disk. Even if you can format it, it shouldn't take very long as it's only an 80GB disk.

[ann coates]

Thanks canon. Anyone know what would be better to do on the Panasonic?

[DVWannaB]

I have a lot of clips on my hard drive recorders (a Panasonic E85 and a Pioneer 520) and will soon be deleting everything. Should I delete the items or format the hard drive to delete them?

Also, how long does a format usually take?

Never format or try to format your DVD recorder hard drive. Do so at your own risk. Just about all the big companies recorders format/clean-up internally and dont need any external help. Whatever files you have on the hard drive that you no longer need or want, just delete them.

[lumis]

one thing i think we're all missing here is that there might be a "format hard drive" function in the dvd recorder menu's.. i'm pretty sure it is an easier way to erase the drive than individually going through and erasing everything.. and i stronly doubt panasonic or pioneer would have an option like that which would disable the unit out in the open for any user to access..

i kind of get the impression some of you thought she might be removing the hard drive from the recorder itself, putting it in the computer & formatting it.. i may be wrong though.

[madsharpei]

Formatting time is 3 minutes on a panasonic dmre95h 160gb

[ann coates]

one thing i think we're all missing here is that there might be a "format hard drive" function in the dvd recorder menu's..

Yes, this is what I'm referring to. I realize now the Pioneer doesn't have the format drive option but the Panasonic E85 does. Therefore, I was wondering if it would be better to use the format disc option rather than delete each individual file. As we know, deleting doesn't return the disc to it's virgin state as a format does. So.. any opinions on formatting over deleting everything?

I also use the shorten and divide feature a lot which always makes me feel like I'm mucking the drive up.

Formatting time is 3 minutes on a panasonic dmre95h 160gb

Thank you! That's faster than I expected.

[Frobozz]

Ann,
I just want to point out that the Pioneer has a HDD initialize menu option. However, this only becomes visible in the Disc Setup menu if the drive becomes currupted for some reason. The hard drive crashed on my first unit several times shortly after I received it and I got familiar with the HDD initialize option. I shortly thereafter replaced the unit with one that works. Just hope the initialize option doesn't become available to you.

[sync]

As we know, deleting doesn't return the disc to it's virgin state as a format does. So.. any opinions on formatting over deleting everything?

What is it that you are concerned about?

[handyguy]

Panny uses the same choices for a Ram disk, format or do program by program or all programs. I bet formatting is like defragging.

[sync]

Formatting is not like defraging. You can't have fragmentation if there are no files. Defraging takes all the pieces of a file that are scattered on the disk and puts them in one contiguous section.

Fragmentation won't be a problem on a DVD recorder like it will on a PC.

[ann coates]

What is it that you are concerned about?

Fragmenting the hard drive, especially if you use shorten a lot. I've seen others mention it could become a problem. But, yes, if I delete everything guess there's no need to format. Somehow I just felt that even if I deleted everything it wasn't the same as starting with a clean state which you would get from formatting. You disagree?

Fragmentation won't be a problem on a DVD recorder like it will on a PC.

I wasn't aware of this... hmm.. So if I have a bunch of clips on my hard drive and use shorten all the time and keep the clips on there the hard drive won't become fragmented? How is that possible? To me it seems that would be asking for problems eventually.

[sync]

Whether you delete all the files or you format the drive, the end result is the same - you have no files and therefore no fragmentation.

On a typical PC the cluster size is 8K or smaller. I don't know what cluster size the various DVD recorders use but it should be a lot larger. In a Tivo it's about 1MB.

So you'll end up with much less fragmentation in a DVD recorder. But what's important is whether that fragmentation will cause a problem.

On a PC if the drive head is constantly seeking all over the drive reading 8K clusters then it would cause a performance problem. Most of the fragments on a DVD recorder will be much larger than 1MB and this won't cause a problem.

[sync]

Somehow I just felt that even if I deleted everything it wasn't the same as starting with a clean state which you would get from formatting.

Formatting a drive doesn't create a clean slate either. If it did, it would take a long longer than a few minutes. Formatting can take care of some problems. But DVD recorders are fairly simple devices and are much less likely than a PC to develop those problems.

If you have a lot of files to delete, formatting is probably easier though. Just make sure that formatting doesn't also wipe out settings. I don't have a Panny so I don't know exactly what formatting affects.

[handyguy]

"Whether you delete all the files or you format the drive, the end result is the same - you have no files and therefore no fragmentation. "

Yeah, but if that is true, & you run 'unformat' & you get your files back. How can that be, if, as you said, there are no files left?

[sync]

"Whether you delete all the files or you format the drive, the end result is the same - you have no files and therefore no fragmentation. "

Yeah, but if that is true, & you run 'unformat' & you get your files back. How can that be, if, as you said, there are no files left?

Do you not understand what I meant or are you toying with me?

[tommyoz]

As we know, deleting doesn't return the disc to it's virgin state as a format does.

So that's what I have to do to my girlfriend, format. Only Kidding!!!! I'm married.

Seriuosly speaking I record a lot on my Sony HX900's hard drive. Since December I have formatted once. Only becuase it was easier to do then to delete manually.

The manual states that if you get and HD error message on the front panel when turning on, you would have to format the HD. This is my fear that I may come home one day and everything will have to be wiped away. Maybe if I format from time to time this won't happen.
I really don't think there is any harm in formatting your hard drive.

[sync]

The manual states that if you get and HD error message on the front panel when turning on, you would have to format the HD. This is my fear that I may come home one day and everything will have to be wiped away. Maybe if I format from time to time this won't happen.
I really don't think there is any harm in formatting your hard drive.

There's no harm and there's also no preventative benefit either.

[ann coates]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

sync, I understand your point about once you delete everything the drive can't be fragmented since no files remain, but are the files really gone is the question I'm asking? Isn't it true that when deleting the files they technically still remain, the disc just shows as empty simply giving you the ability to write over what's still on there? Thus it's probably better to format rather than delete everything. You don't agree?

Basically, are you saying the disc is in the same state after a format as it is after a deletion of all its files? Or you're saying it's not in the same state, but it makes no difference?

[sync]

Isn't it true that when deleting the files they technically still remain, the disc just shows as empty simply giving you the ability to write over what's still on there? Thus it's probably better to format rather than delete everything. You don't agree?

Formatting a drive does not change the data on the drive. It would take much longer if it did. On a PC it gives the impression of returning a drive to its virgin state because it wipes out the operating system and therefore you can't do anything with the drive.

Even if formatting did return a drive to its virgin state, there would be no advantage to that.

I guess it's kind of hard to grasp because there isn't really thing else in our lives that is similar. At least not that I can think of.

[ann coates]

Even if formatting did return a drive to its virgin state, there would be no advantage to that.

Thanks for your post. Don't ask me why it just seems like it would be an advantage. I guess I had it in my mind it was a fresh start of sorts with everything obliterated and nothing lurking in the shadows, but you're right when you say it should take longer then. Guess the format is only for when you encounter major errors then.

[sync]

Even if formatting did return a drive to its virgin state, there would be no advantage to that.

Thanks for your post. Don't ask me why it just seems like it would be an advantage. I guess I had it in my mind it was a fresh start of sorts with everything obliterated and nothing lurking in the shadows, but you're right when you say it should take longer then. Guess the format is only for when you encounter major errors then.

What you say can be true for Windows, at least with the 9x versions. But using the format option in a DVD recorder does not give you a fresh install of the operating system. And the operating system of a DVD recorder is so simple that is just isn't subject to the same problems as a complex system like Windows. My Tivo has been running 24 hours a day for four and half years without a hiccup.

[handyguy]

In the time it takes to read these messages, the OP's hd would be formatted

I read if you put in a new HD, the same one as the old one, it formats it automatically.

[ann coates]

LOL handyguy. Yes, I know but I'm just trying to clarify this issue because I keep reading conflicting opinions on this forum and wanted to try and get to the bottom of it.

Sync, unfortunately I'm still not done. lol. I just found the old thread that originally made me question the whole fragmenting issue:

Defragmenting a DVD HD

I really don't want to be worry about it if it's a non issue, but then I keep coming across these old posts.

[steve2713]

In the time it takes to read these messages, the OP's hd would be formatted

I read if you put in a new HD, the same one as the old one, it formats it automatically.

What you're suggesting is not able to be done with Pioneer recorders. There's no formatting 'function' available, nor will it easily accept a replacement HD. You need a Service disc and a Service remote to replace the HD.

[tommyoz]

LOL handyguy. Yes, I know but I'm just trying to clarify this issue because I keep reading conflicting opinions on this forum and wanted to try and get to the bottom of it.

Sync, unfortunately I'm still not done. lol. I just found the old thread that originally made me question the whole fragmenting issue:

Defragmenting a DVD HD

I really don't want to be worry about it if it's a non issue, but then I keep coming across these old posts.

Ann,
I think you will always get conflicting opinions. Just because Sync says it (and I'm not trying to undermine him, he may be right) doesn't mean he's correct, or wherever he got his info from. The same goes for the guys from that link that you provided.

What is your reason for trying to get to the bottom of it? Is it to hopefully get the most life out of it or to just get the best performance?

[ann coates]

What is your reason for trying to get to the bottom of it? Is it to hopefully get the most life out of it or to just get the best performance?

To get the most life out of it. I worry when I read stories about people's hard drives going belly up fairly early on and they name fragmenting as the cause so I was looking for a way to prevent problems. At the same time, I wasn't sure how accurate that reason was and, well, I'm still not sure.

[sync]

Ann, Are you concerned about the talk that the files are still there after you delete them or format the drive and therefore you think the drive will still be fragmented?

[tommyoz]

To get the most life out of it.

Then I really wouldn't be too concerned. You can't really tell how long these things are going to last. Any electronic component for that matter. You can get an average on how long but it may not apply.

If things are really important then backup right away. You can bust your butt just performing maintenance on it and it can still bite you. You can do nothing and it may last forever.

[ann coates]

Ann, Are you concerned about the talk that the files are still there after you delete them or format the drive and therefore you think the drive will still be fragmented?

Yes, I was concerned that some stray bits will still be left after a delete and over time it will muck things up and cause errors or crashes. This is what a few people seem to be saying happened to them. Problem is I don't know whether it's correct or not which is why I asked..to see what people around here thought on this issue.

If things are really important then backup right away. You can bust your butt just performing maintenance on it and it can still bite you. You can do nothing and it may last forever.

Very true, of course. I guess because I use the shorten feature more than any other it gave me particular pause for thought on the fragmenting issue. I'm gonna blame those old posts for making me paranoid. Cheers for the replies.