AllOfMP3.com Deemed LEGAL!

[AlecWest]

Russia will not prosecute AllOfMP3.com. Music industry (ahem) unavailable for comment:

http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=694

[MOVIEGEEK]

Download while you can.

[bazooka]

[AlecWest]

Actually, I've been thinking about logging on and, as an experiment, downloading Russian music. I've listened to some Russian jazz musicians and many of them are quite good. And the beauty of this is that downloads of Russian music is unquestionably legal.

P.S. BTW, the reason this is on-topic is because AllOfMP3.com has stated they plan to offer video downloads in the future ... and I can hear the sounds of excessive nail-biting coming from the offices of the MPAA.

[Red96TA]

hmmm....it doesn't sound too bright giving your credit card info to a bunch of folks in Russia.

spooky...

[Malchiah]

They take paypal if you dont feel like giving up your cherished credit card numbers.

I've charged $40 worth of music on my credit card and have not had any problems in the past 6-8 months that I've been using allofmp3. And I have a full ipod to show for it.

[AlecWest]

They take paypal if you dont feel like giving up your cherished credit card numbers.

They used to take PayPal but not sure about whether they do anymore. But, their credit-card service (CyberPlat) is totally separate from them, has been in business for over 7 years, and is used for card-verification by a whole host of European businesses. In short, CyberPlat is legit ... and I've never heard of any improprieties associated with them.

Of course, for the really squeamish, there are "pre-paid" cards that have a finite value (VISA, AMex, etc.). Simply buy a $50 pre-paid card and use it to put $50 into your account. End of transaction. And, FWIW, I've never heard of any improprieties with AllOfMP3.com either insofar as crediting an account. If they did exist, it's the kind of news that would spread like wildfire and end up costing them serious business.

[Malchiah]

Simply buy a $50 pre-paid card and use it to put $50 into your account. End of transaction.

Good point. And for those who don't know yet, that $50 will get you roughly 600-800 songs depending on the quality you select. Try that at iTunes!

[satviewer2000]

Just live in Canada. You can DOWNLOAD anything legally. You just cannot UPLOAD anything legally. That's the law here.

[lumis]

anything?

[Faustus]

The billing service they use is the same on Sony RU uses. Or used when check into them.

Keep in mind its not been Deemed "ok", just "yeah its a loop hole" its only ok until they make it not.

[Rookie64]

Alrighty...what's the secret to getting the site to work

Saw a very obscure album listed on there that I can't buy anywhere else...so I was gonna take a shot for it.

I registered and confirmed...that worked...but after you try to log in it keeps you in Guest Mode

No matter how many times I click on ENGLISH it stays in Russian (which I have to translate elsewhere)

Anyway...just goes in circles and I don't get anywhere

Ya almost had me sold but not worth the aggravation.

Would've been a cool deal if it actually worked

I don't trust the site enough to pay...sorry.

[smearbrick1]

Alrighty...what's the secret to getting the site to work :?

Saw a very obscure album listed on there that I can't buy anywhere else...so I was gonna take a shot for it.

I registered and confirmed...that worked...but after you try to log in it keeps you in Guest Mode

No matter how many times I click on ENGLISH it stays in Russian (which I have to translate elsewhere)

Anyway...just goes in circles and I don't get anywhere :roll:

Ya almost had me sold but not worth the aggravation.

Would've been a cool deal if it actually worked :wink:

I don't trust the site enough to pay...sorry.

Now this is just lunacy. You said you were going to buy an obscure album from the site until you couldn't get something to work correctly. Immediately following this, you state that you don't trust the site enough to pay. I have been using this site for awhile now, and let me tell you... your fears are unfounded. There billing service is entirely separate from the site. The paypal option rarely ever works, but the credit verification service they use is totally legit. I have had several transactions through this company and there is no problem. If you want, take the advice of one of the earlier posts and purchase a cash card from Visa or AMEX. Then... download until you can't download anymore!!!

[Rookie64]

Now this is just lunacy. You said you were going to buy an obscure album from the site until you couldn't get something to work correctly. Immediately following this, you state that you don't trust the site enough to pay. I have been using this site for awhile now, and let me tell you... your fears are unfounded. There billing service is entirely separate from the site. The paypal option rarely ever works, but the credit verification service they use is totally legit. I have had several transactions through this company and there is no problem. If you want, take the advice of one of the earlier posts and purchase a cash card from Visa or AMEX. Then... download until you can't download anymore!!!

Well, it's not the Billing service that I don't trust - I can't get the site to work just by logging in. It keeps me as a guest.

It's being able to log into the site and being able to download from it that I don't trust...not the transactions.

[AlecWest]

Well, it's not the Billing service that I don't trust - I can't get the site to work just by logging in. It keeps me as a guest.

Logging in is step one. Paying, I believe, is step two. No tickee, no washee.

[AlecWest]

Just live in Canada. You can DOWNLOAD anything legally. You just cannot UPLOAD anything legally. That's the law here.

Can I even download the new unreleased episode of "Dr. Who" in Canada? Hehe, the BBC claims that the "leaked" episode now making its way around the Internet originated from (ahem) the CBC:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=261035

[canadateck]

Published: December 12, 2003

Update Downloading copyrighted music from peer-to-peer networks is legal in Canada, although uploading files is not, Canadian copyright regulators said in a ruling released Friday.

In the same decision, the Copyright Board of Canada imposed a government fee of as much as $25 on iPod-like MP3 players, putting the devices in the same category as audio tapes and blank CDs. The money collected from levies on "recording mediums" goes into a fund to pay musicians and songwriters for revenues lost from consumers' personal copying. Manufacturers are responsible for paying the fees and often pass the cost on to consumers.

The peer-to-peer component of the decision was prompted by questions from consumer and entertainment groups about ambiguous elements of Canadian law. Previously, most analysts had said uploading was illegal but that downloading for personal use might be allowed.

"As far as computer hard drives are concerned, we say that for the time being, it is still legal," said Claude Majeau, secretary general of the Copyright Board.

The decision is likely to ruffle feathers on many sides, from consumer-electronics sellers worried about declining sales to international entertainment companies worried about the spread of peer-to-peer networks.

Copyright holder groups such as the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) had already been critical of Canada's copyright laws, in large part because the country has not instituted provisions similar to those found in the U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act. One portion of that law makes it illegal to break, or to distribute tools for breaking, digital copy protection mechanisms, such as the technology used to protect DVDs from piracy.

A lawyer for the Canadian record industry's trade association said the group still believed downloading was illegal, despite the decision.

"Our position is that under Canadian law, downloading is also prohibited," said Richard Pfohl, general counsel for the Canadian Recording Industry Association. "This is the opinion of the Copyright Board, but Canadian courts will decide this issue."

In its decision Friday, the Copyright Board said uploading or distributing copyrighted works online appeared to be prohibited under current Canadian law.

However, the country's copyright law does allow making a copy for personal use and does not address the source of that copy or whether the original has to be an authorized or noninfringing version, the board said.

Under those laws, certain media are designated as appropriate for making personal copies of music, and producers pay a per-unit fee into a pool designed to compensate musicians and songwriters. Most audio tapes and CDs, and now MP3 players, are included in that category. Other mediums, such as DVDs, are not deemed appropriate for personal copying.

Computer hard drives have never been reviewed under that provision, however. In its decision Friday, the board decided to allow personal copies on a hard drive until a fee ruling is made specifically on that medium or until the courts or legislature tell regulators to rule otherwise.

"Until such time, as a decision is made on hard drives, for the time being, (we are ruling) in favor of consumers," Majeau said.

Legal analysts said that courts would likely rule on the file-swapping issue later, despite Friday's opinion.

"I think it is pretty significant," Michael Geist, a law professor at the University of Ottawa, said. "It's not that the issue is resolved...I think that sooner or later, courts will sound off on the issue. But one thing they will take into consideration is the Copyright Board ruling."

Friday's decision will also impose a substantial surcharge on hard drive-based music players such as Apple Computer's iPod or the new Samsung Napster player for the first time. MP3 players with up to 10GB of memory will have an added levy of $15 added to their price, while larger players will see $25 added on top of the wholesale price.

MP3 players with less than 1GB of memory will have only a $2 surcharge added to their cost.

With a population of about 31 million people, Canada is approximately one-tenth the size of the United States. But Canadians are relatively heavy users of high-speed Internet connections, which make it easy to download music files. About 4.1 million Canadians were using a broadband connection at home as of the end of June 2003, according to U.K.-based research firm Point Topic. By comparison, U.S. cable and DSL (digital subscriber line) subscribers totaled 22.7 million at the end of September, according to Leichtman Research Group.

Canada has already raised the hackles of some copyright holders through its reluctance to enact measures that significantly expand digital copyright protection, as the controversial Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) has done in the United States. As a result, Canada could become a model for countries seeking to find a balance between protecting copyright holders' rights and providing consumers with more liberal rights to copyrighted works. For now, it remains unclear how other countries might be influenced by Friday's ruling.

Geist said he believes the tariff decision could be just the tip of the iceberg for hardware makers, as Canadian regulators grapple with the full implications of the policy. Other devices, including PCs, may eventually be brought under the tariff scheme, he predicted.

"Given that they've made a strong stand on (peer-to-peer matters), if the policy remains the same, there's little choice but to move ahead on personal computers," Geist said.

However, a representative of the Canadian Private Copying Collective (CPCC), the group of music copyright holders that typically petitions for new media types to be added to the list, said computers were not on its agenda.

"We have never sought a levy on computer hard drives and do not intend to do so in the future," Lucie Beaucheni, vice chair of the CPCC, said.

[lumis]

No tickee, no washee.

[BJ_M]

CYBERPLAT.COM is one of Russia's leading Internet companies which offers infrastructure services in the area of electronic commerce. The company's product is the universal integrated multibank payment system CyberPlat, which has been in operation for more than three years. The system secures the effecting of transactions and the processing of payments on-line (also with the use of plastic cards) as well as interbank settlements in segments B2C and B2B. The system's market share in the area of on-line card internet payments is 85-90 percent. Today the CyberPlat system is connected to 139 Internet stores, organizations and companies dealing with about 1 million goods and services. More than 365 thousand clients have used the services of the CyberPlat system.

[AlecWest]

CYBERPLAT.COM is one of Russia's leading Internet companies which offers infrastructure services in the area of electronic commerce. The company's product is the universal integrated multibank payment system CyberPlat, which has been in operation for more than three years. The system secures the effecting of transactions and the processing of payments on-line (also with the use of plastic cards) as well as interbank settlements in segments B2C and B2B. The system's market share in the area of on-line card internet payments is 85-90 percent. Today the CyberPlat system is connected to 139 Internet stores, organizations and companies dealing with about 1 million goods and services. More than 365 thousand clients have used the services of the CyberPlat system.

Very true. It makes me wonder, though. I wonder how long it will be before CyberPlat (cheaper than many other processors) starts marketing in North America. As long as a transaction is secure, who would care if you or I went to a Canadian store, bought a Canadian product to be shipped to a Canadian destination, but have the card-verification done instanteously thousands of miles away in Russia?

Just as domestic online music sellers should become very worried about AllOfMP3.com, online card processors should become very worried about CyberPlat. I find it refreshing to see the Russians beating us at our own game - capitalism - after the USA spent so much time and money trying to get them to see the light. Hehehe, it's kind of like raising a kid. You spend the first five years trying to get them to talk ... and the next 10 years trying to get them to STFU.

[vitualis]

I've never read any billing problems with AllOfMP3 on the net and I researched very thoroughly before buying some credit.

When you join up now, they give you 20c of credit so you can try out their system first. That will get you a song or two depending on your encoding settings.

I have found them to be quite reliable and definitely a very good collection. However, their collection isn't entirely "all inclusive". Newer albums are often not available. Of the few rarer albums which I tried to look for, they weren't available either.

Regards.

[AlecWest]

When you join up now, they give you 20c of credit so you can try out their system first. That will get you a song or two depending on your encoding settings.

Didn't know that. Smart move, though.

I have found them to be quite reliable and definitely a very good collection. However, their collection isn't entirely "all inclusive". Newer albums are often not available. Of the few rarer albums which I tried to look for, they weren't available either.

Regards.

True. The best thing for a potential consumer to do is to spend some time going through their catalog, taking note of the music they have that the consumer wants ... then buying enough credit to download that music. And, as new music is added, updating online credit accordingly.

[ricky1756]

good site, it actually offers lossless downloads.

[Malchiah]

Haha, all this talk about allofmp3, plus it being mentioned on The Screensavers on Techtv has made it difficult to get on. The servers are busy.

[adam]

AllOfMP3.com, or rather the actions of its administrator(s) were not deemed "legal." The local prosecutor in Moscow just decided not to file criminal charges.

There can, and almost certainly will, be a civil suit filed under either Russian or American Copyright Law or a subsequent prosecutor could just as easily see things differently and be more amenable to filing criminal charges. (the prosecutor's reason for not filling suit seemed kinda strange)

As best as I can tell, its the royalty collection agencies in Russia that are the real criminals. It seems that AllOfMP3.com is grossly underpaying royalties but that they are doing all that is required of them under Russian law.

[satviewer2000]

anything?

Well I suppose "anything" that can be downloaded (yes, even a lost episode of Dr. Who) is legal in Canada. But strictly speaking, that would of course exclude something criminal like child porn as an example.

And of course things become more complicated if someone is using "Bit Torrent" technology, because you are in effect uploading even while you are downloading. In Bit Torrent, there is no real separation between the two, although this has not really been challenged in court here in Canada as yet.

In any case, I think the American "lawsuit" approach to this alleged problem is not the right one. The Canadian approach makes more sense than suing teenagers or giving teens criminal records because they downloaded a music file. I mean, jeez, that makes 99% of all teenagers (maybe except for the illiterate inner city kids without computers) criminals. What a crock of sh*t.

[AlecWest]

AllOfMP3.com, or rather the actions of its administrator(s) were not deemed "legal." The local prosecutor in Moscow just decided not to file criminal charges.

The following sentence comes from several articles I've read today:

News agency Tass has reported that Russian authorities declined to take action because Russian copyright laws do not cover digital media.

In short, the prosecutor didn't decide not to file criminal charges on a whim. He decided not to file criminal charges because he knew he could not win based on the letter of Russian law.

There can, and almost certainly will, be a civil suit filed under either Russian or American Copyright Law...

There already has been a civil suit filed in a Russian court. But, legal experts agree that AllOfMP3.com will prevail if they can prove they've held up their responsibility to the existing copyright agency (ROMS).

As best as I can tell, its the royalty collection agencies in Russia that are the real criminals. It seems that AllOfMP3.com is grossly underpaying royalties but that they are doing all that is required of them under Russian law.

Now you're onto something. If legal experts in this country are confounded, think of how they feel in Russia. Just fourteen years ago, the concept of "private" property (tangible or intellectual) didn't exist there. But considering it's only been 14 years since the collapse of the Soviet Union, I think that the Russians have come an awfully long way in trying to understand the basic concepts of private property ownership. And, they're still on a learning curve.

Having said that, though, it's possible that the definitions they end up with may differ from Western definitions ... perhaps even substantially.

[richdvd]

I've never read any billing problems with AllOfMP3 on the net and I researched very thoroughly before buying some credit.

When you join up now, they give you 20c of credit so you can try out their system first. That will get you a song or two depending on your encoding settings.

I have found them to be quite reliable and definitely a very good collection. However, their collection isn't entirely "all inclusive". Newer albums are often not available. Of the few rarer albums which I tried to look for, they weren't available either.

Regards.

I did the same research with mp3search.ru (sister site to allofmp3, i believe)
They use some kind of verisign system for payment.
Been using them for several months now.
I highly recommend them.

[adam]

In short, the prosecutor didn't decide not to file criminal charges on a whim. He decided not to file criminal charges because he knew he could not win based on the letter of Russian law.

Based on his intrepretation of Russia's criminal law, yes. This still doesn't rule out civil remedies or the possibility that another prosecutor will eventually interpret the law differently. My point is just that neglecting to bring a suit has no bearing on the legality of the actions. Only a court of law can make such a legal conclusion.

I understand that your thread topic is just generally describing that they scored a victory. But nevertheless their actions have not been deemed legal in any sense of the word.

There already has been a civil suit filed in a Russian court. But, legal experts agree that AllOfMP3.com will prevail if they can prove they've held up their responsibility to the existing copyright agency (ROMS).

Well yes of course, but that's exactly what the allegations are...that they AREN'T fulfilling their obligations. This is a question of fact, not law. Only a civil suit will determine whether their operations are legal or not, unless the parties otherwise settle this outside of the court system.

[vitualis]

Basically, the events which have unfolded have not shown that AllOfMP3's activities are legal or illegal -- rather the prosecution don't think that they will win if they went ahead with the case.

Regards.