FusionHDTV Gold 3 vs. MyHD MDP-130

[pglenn]

I am looking to add an HDTV card to my HTPC computer and want to pick between one of these two cards as they seem to be the most respected HDTV cards. I currently have an ATI 9800-All-In-Wonder-Pro card that (but quality not tested as I dont currently have HDTV TV but pla on one very soon) will output to HDTV. I would like to add a HDTV card that will be able to pick up either OTA signals or ComCast cable signals.

Both these cards supposedly will do both OTA and unencrypted cable QAM signals. both seem to support digital audio output. I would like ideally to use the TV/HDTV output of my ATI card to output the signal from the HDTV card. Also I will want to be able to schedule and record programs, which both claim to do.

So far the only difference I have been able to see is that the MyHD card costs about $100 more ($10 vs $250). Not sure about the Fusion but I believe the MDP-130 does hardware MPEG encodeing. I also saw the MDP-130 supports a daughter DVI card - is it required for digital output or can I still use my ATI for output?

Anyone with any insights and experience between these two cards, information will be appreciated.

Patrick

[redwudz]

I use the Fusion card. It works well for over the air HDTV. It doesn't work with cable, AFAIK. At least not with my cable system, as all the HDTV there is encrypted.

I run the output to a Sapphire Radeon 9550 video card, then output through the DVI port through a ATI DVI>Component adapter to my video projector.

The picture is very good, though it needs a good antenna. My indoor antenna is marginal.

I got mine through http://www.copperbox.com/lite/popinfo.php?lc_code=Fusion-HDTV3-T&uneek=810979660

[Soopafresh]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=ca415bdc021b863fd57fb68cb73dfa4c&threadid=493691

Here's a thread on the MDP-130

I have an MDP-120 and I like it a lot. The software is good and stable, but it is proprietary. I've never tried the Fusion card, but it gets very good reviews. Here's a few clips of over the air broadcasts on the MDP-120.

[DeadLamb]

I picked up a QAM fusion III card a few weeks ago.. Also have a Fusion II in another cpu..

main plus of a MyHd card is that is does hardware decoding and that's a great if one has a slower cpu Vs software decoding with the Fusion. There is no software/hardware encode issues being we don't encode anything with HD in the first place, we just save the stream as it comes in. In my case, the lack of hardware decode is not really an issue being my p4 3.2 only takes around a 12%-18% cpu load when running the fusion card.

I ended up buying a fusion card being for what I want to do (just record HDtv to the cpu to watch on the cpu later) it works great and they are cheaper Vs the MyHD cards. You can program it to record whatever you want, but keep in mind it's more like a VCR then a tivo.. In that you need to tell it to record on Wed, 9pm and the channel Vs it just sort of knowing.. titantv.com (free site) also has listings that can help with that..

The fusion III card does Over The Air really well for me. Stations that were/are at say 65%-75% with my older FII card are at 100% with the newer FIII..

The value of QAM is sort of a toss up really, depending on one's cable set up. As mentioned you only get the unencrypted stations.. In my area I can get all the networks by way of OTA but my cable company does not even carry, at all, HD CBS, UPN or WB. Sort of strange. The QAM part of the card will tune in FOX, ABC etc but most of the time I find my self just running it off an attenna.

Bottom line I think for most it just comes down to price. If you want a cheap card to record HDtv to the cpu and play it out the vidcard the fusion is hard to beat. I think the MyHD has a little more polish to it but for me I was willing to save the money.

I suggest checking out the avsforum as Soopafresh linked too.. They have a HTPC area with lots of threads just about the two cards ya asked about. From what I have read most who have a MyHd like it and most who have a Fusion accept a few rough edges here or there being it's cheaper. Plus the company that makes the fusion has been good about driver updates.

[maxpower2078]

I purchased the Fusion card and got it last Friday, I order an antenna from a different website so it hasn't come yet, but I found an old school set of rabbit ears laying around and have been using that for a couple of days and get a good amount of channels just from that. The quality is amazing, I am very happy with it. I am just trying to figure out what is the best way to convert the .tp files into divx/xvid and still perserve the origanal resolution.

[pglenn]

Thanks for all the responses so far. my main concerns - other than price of course - is the quality of the signal, and the encoding - again I believe the MyHD is hardware-based and the Fusion is software-based. Also that each would be able to receive on both cable and OTA signals.

If each seems to provide comparable reception quality then I guess my decision would be based on performance (software/hardware) and output ability. my intention again is to hopefully output highest-quality thru my current ATI 9800-pro card. another concern is the ability to time-schedule recordings (TIVO-ability is not a concern at this time), whether using supplied software or additional software. how would these cards compare in regards to schedule/recording and performance with my existing setup?

my current setup
----------------
win xp-pro
AMD 1.8ghz
ATI AIW-9800 Pro
1gig ram

[DeadLamb]

quality of the signal, and the encoding -

yeah encoding is not an issue being again, you do not encode HDtv when you record it.. You just capture the stream, at around 8gigs a hour (depending on source).. I've said this before it's really like someone just hands you cans of sodas over and over Vs say normal vcd/mpg encoding that is more like someone pours ya soda out of a hose.. Where you need something to keep it in and so on.. HDtv just roars in as a TS stream and you 'save' it, as is... Some is better then others of course but that is due what the networks sends.. So like FOX sort of sucks as far as how HD shows look, NBC is good for 1080i, ABC does 720p..

I'm torn on the issue of time-schedule recordings.. I've not used the Myhd card but the fusion is pretty easy to just punch times in.. Sep in the past there has been some issues with recordings not going off or driver crashes.. Newer drivers now and I have not had those issues but I've read the time shifting on the fusion is still a little buggy.. No idea if that is that case, I never use it.. Of course last week I did record 2 hours of QVC off the QAM tuner when it records something like XX.1 rather then XX.2.. whoops.. Not sure what happend there..

oh one thing to think about being you mentioned both QAM and OTA is that the Myhd has two inputs on the back.. So you can run an antenna and a cable for QAm to it.. Where as the fusion only has one input on newer cards.. So you need to add an a/b switch to flip back and forth. Also I've read the Myhd has a better 'fav' station set up then the fusion so you can list both QAM and OTA.. Where with the fusion due to the one connection it's one or the other.. In many case you end up need to rescan the QAM stations to get all the sub stations again.. being say 812 will not show as 812 it will be something like 77.2..

as I said before the MYhd card clearly is more polished then the fusion but ya pay for that.. My two fusion cards both combined were less then even one MYhd card... $80 for a FII (used) and then $150 for the FIII.. So I can record 2 shows now at the same time..

[DeadLamb]

here ya go.. range of shows that sort of shows the dif from station to station as far as HD stuff goes.. Lets see.. left to right.. ABC for 2005 Oscars.. BattlestarG off NBC.. 24 off FOX network (see little more grainy but the show is ment to be that way). Matrix Reloaded at 1080i (doh!).. NBC's Las Vegas show.. HD ad from the superbowl..

being I know HD screen caps tend to make others go "Ok I have to get that" a little more then just everyone saying it looks better.. It's looks wayyyyyy better.. All from my fusion III card..

[pglenn]

thanks again for the continued responses. I have a couple additional questions that are perhaps somewhat off-topic now from card selection

1 - you say "captures" from HDTV signals on these cards are not encoded but written straight as received. is this a somewhat proprietary format that I wouldnt be able to burn to DVD? if you can perhaps point me to a source of information on this (converting received files to DVD) I would appreciated it rather than taking space here. and, I would also assume that analog signals would be "encoded" as normal?

2 - also I inquired with my local ComCast service about whether I need special equiptment to receive HDTV from local "OTA" broadcasts using the "basic" cable service and recieved this
----------------------------------------
In order to provide this service we will provide a Motorola DCT-5100 or
DCT-6200 converter unit, which is needed to decode the HDTV signal. It
is correct that there is no charge for the HD local broadcast networks
however there is a monthly fee of $5.00 (plus the cost of the Basic
service) for the HDTV equipment.
-----------------------------------------
does anyone know if this is just for the QAM signal? I would love to use the dual-input for the 130, one for OTA and one for cable, but I think using a supplied cable-box would be defeating the purpose...

Patrick

[DeadLamb]

is this a somewhat proprietary format that I wouldnt be able to burn to DVD?

Nah it's just a TS stream.. Fusion save with .TP rather then .TS on the end for some strange reason.. Many people now tend to run the stream past HDTVtoMPEG2, cutting out the commercials and then resaving as TS (a TS stream is really just mpg2 sep in really tiny parts). Then saving in TS on say two DVDr disks.. Being they are running a home pc to play it anyways.. Waiting for the next gen of burners (HDdvd/blueray) so they can just save them that way. When you save the streams you can tell the card when you want it split. Say every 1 gig or whatever you want.

I think there has been some HDtv to DVD thread on this board, just hit the search.. heck even the newest version of Power DVD can play TS streams now.. still on topic as far as picking a card being fusion comes with a converter to down sample to dvd size.. errrr how well it works is up for debate..

Analog recording with the fusion at least is done the same as it is any other card.. ya just pick a res and so on, with a max of 640x480.. Same as any other tv card really..

as for comcast and getting HD stuff.. the decoder box is to decode and push the signal the the tv.. It's really has nothing to do with the QAM tuning of a cpu card.. being ya can't really capture, with the card, a TS stream by way of a cable box being it's already been decoded by the box.. that what makes QAM such a crap shoot for people right now. Ya just run the cable to the card.. If cable encrypts everything, you don't get anything with QAM with a CPU tv card...

Only way one would be able to get encrypted cable, by way of a HDtv cpu card is if someone came out with a new "cable card" (that new decoder on the way) sort of in cpu HDtv card.. Sep I don't see that happening any times soon..

That why you see threads about firewire port and so on off the HD decoder box that the cable company gives ya.. Sep that a whole other topic..

Best to plan on OTA only and think of QAM as a nice bonus if a person can get it.. Asking comcast is not going to help being they only care about renting you the HDbox to go from HDbox to tv. At that point you don't need or are helped by a HDtv card in the cpu.

yeah I know.. whole big miss of strange tech issue with HD now.. Unlike the old days of you see it, you record it and all done.

if you read the HDtv area of the avsforum you see that even best cast most get maybe 5 or so local HD stations with QAM? It's not the magic bullet some think it is as in being able to tune everything as if you had a cable box in your cpu..

[pglenn]

I understand and dont at the same time. ugh

I am assuming that by TS we are referring to DVD-format TS files? if so then no problem, I can convert in and out of those easily enough.

As for the cable box, obviously I dont "believe" anything they say outright, and again I really am likeing the 130 idea of dual inputs, so it would be interesting to be able to compare/contrast what I get OTA against what I get via cable. and also perhaps I can get via cable what I cant receive clearly via OTA. oh well.

BTW - the AVSforum thread referred to itself has a big section just on the topic of whether the box is needed for reception of HDTV on basic cable w/o their box. I need to re-read it a few times to clear it up in my mind.

Patrick

[DeadLamb]

I understand and dont at the same time.

heh.. ok well think of HDtv like ripping a DVD. With the HDtv card being a "ripper" and the HDtv stream being the DVD.. So much like when you rip a DVD to ISO on the cpu, saving a .TS stream just saves it. No change.

now you can also of course play a DVD in a stand alone home player. That is like a HDtv box from a cable company playing a HDtv stream of say the Tonight Show.

Well much like you can't really rip a DVD from a stand alone player, you can't record a TS stream from a cable decoder box with a HDtv card.. Much like a DVD ripper does not help ya record a DVD off a stand alone player..

Hey don't worry about feeling lost at first it really is a new sort of tech.. Few weeks you will be rattling off info about TS reader and PID numbers and so on.. heh..

[edDV]

...

1 - you say "captures" from HDTV signals on these cards are not encoded but written straight as received. is this a somewhat proprietary format that I wouldnt be able to burn to DVD? if you can perhaps point me to a source of information on this (converting received files to DVD) I would appreciated it rather than taking space here. and, I would also assume that analog signals would be "encoded" as normal?

Think of a DTV TS stream (~19Mbps)* as being similar to a DV stream (34Mb/s) from a DV camcorder. It is a continous stream of data that must be diverted into a file in order to be saved. This file can be played back from the file in a similar way, but since it is highly compressed, it will need either a fast computer (software decoder) or a hardware decoder chip** to play in full resolution. The decoder converts the MPeg2 TS data into Y, U, V (at 1920x1080 or 1280x720 resolution) for computer display or output (over component analog Y, Pb, Pr) by your graphics card.

Storage to a hard drive can be done now at approx 8GB/hr. An hour of data could be saved to a dual layer DVDR but like DV it couldn't be saved or played back in real time. We will have to wait for a true HD DVD recorder-player with appropriate hardware acceleration to match what we can do with a current standard DVD recorder. There is currently a Digital VHS VCR standard that will record the stream to tape and play back in real time.

http://www.epinions.com/search/?submitted_form=searchbar&search_string=DVHS&tax_name=V..._submit=Search

You can convert a HDTV ts or tp file to standard 720x480 DVD resolution in several ways. For instance I can just drag a tp file to the timeline in Vegas 5 and edit it, preview it and encode to DVD MPeg2 just like I can with DV. Of course the resulting DVD will be 720x480, not HDTV. Alternatively, I can edit the full HDTV file in Vegas and save it back out at HDTV resolution. Beware that HDTV editing and encoding takes major CPU time.

* This is a simplification. The TS stream can be a single HDTV channel or a combination of HDTV, SDTV and data streams. It is a multiplexed stream similar to a VOB file on a DVD.

** Usually the TeraLogic Janus chip is used on current HDTV tuner cards.

[edDV]

...
2 - also I inquired with my local ComCast service about whether I need special equiptment to receive HDTV from local "OTA" broadcasts using the "basic" cable service and recieved this
----------------------------------------
In order to provide this service we will provide a Motorola DCT-5100 or
DCT-6200 converter unit, which is needed to decode the HDTV signal. It
is correct that there is no charge for the HD local broadcast networks
however there is a monthly fee of $5.00 (plus the cost of the Basic
service) for the HDTV equipment.
-----------------------------------------
does anyone know if this is just for the QAM signal? I would love to use the dual-input for the 130, one for OTA and one for cable, but I think using a supplied cable-box would be defeating the purpose...

The HDTV cable box will receive all the QAM HDTV (and SDTV) channels including the encrypted ones and decode them* to HDMI digital or Y, Pb, Pr analog for direct connection to your HDTV set.

Some cable HDTV tuners, like the DCT-6200, also have a IEEE-1394 connector that outputs the raw TS stream for the selected channel. This signal is usually encrypted except for the local DTV channels. Last April the FCC mandated that these local DTV channels cannot be encrypted by the cable company, but must be passed untouched if a digital connector is provided. The local TV station has a right to encrypt the signal however.

The signal on the IEEE-1394 connector is similar in form to the original local DTV broadcast TS stream and can be 1080i, 720p or a multiplex of one or several SDTV plus HDTV. Usually the cable box will only output the single channel currently tuned on the cable box.

*channels received depend on your cable plan.