Slow Rip Speeds

[logixrat.01]

Hey all, I am new to the forum and just recently purchased my first DVD burner. I am in the process of backing up my DVD collection and have noticed that ripping takes alot of time. I am using both DVD Decrypter and DVD Shrink since they are freebie programs.

To give a little background, my burner is a Pioneer DVR-108 unit with the latest OEM firmware (1.18) installed. The unit is installed as master on the secondary IDE channel. I also have a Lite-On LTD163 DVD-ROM unit that came from the factory with my Dell. It is set to slave on the same channel. I am using the modified GDHJ firmware from the Codeguys website for faster ripping speeds. Both units are in Ultra DMA mode. The computer itself is a P4 2.53ghz, dual 60gb 7200rpm drives, 256mb RAM and WinXP Home. Not sure if you need all that or not, but you have it.

The real problem is the slow rip speeds. I realize the Pioneer unit is locked around 2x so I have been using the Lite-On unit to perform rips. When using DVD Decrypter I get various speeds but nothing over an average of 8x. The high was around 11x. But it seems almost anytime I use DVD shrink the speed goes down to around 4x if the stars align just right and the wind is blowing in the right direction.

Why is the DVD Shrink program so slow? I would much prefer to just use DVD Decrypter but from my limited understanding I can't do that if the disc size is over 4.7gb and I don't use dual layer discs. My burner is capable of dual layer writing so I might seriously consider that so I don't lose any compression quality. Also, speeds might be faster. Where do I find these discs? But prior to doing that is there anything I can do to tweak the DVD Shrink speeds???

[RickTheRed]

Why is the DVD Shrink program so slow? I would much prefer to just use DVD Decrypter but from my limited understanding I can't do that if the disc size is over 4.7gb and I don't use dual layer discs...

Dude, not true.
You can use DVD decrypter for dual layer dvds (over 4.7gb), you must select the file mode (menu: mode/file) and rip the file to your HD.
Then you use dvdshrink on the ripped files. (tons of guide for this specific step).

[logixrat.01]

I should have worded that better. Yes, I can rip dual layer DVD's by using the File mode and select all the files. It just doesn't "shrink" the movie to fit on DVD-5 discs. Hence I am stuck using DVD Shrink again.

Once I pull the file back into Shrink it has to do the quick analyze and then I can perform a backup. I have read that anything more than 30% compression requires you to do a "deep analysing" of the movie, which I do perform. I started this process just a little while ago on a new movie and Shrink is currently running at a whopping 2421 KB/s in the encoding mode. That's just a little over 2x.

That is the part that is frustrating. For this particular movie Decrypter took about 15 minutes or so to get all the files. And Shrink has taken at least 30 minutes or better thus far and it is only at 59% completion. That is what's killing me.

Also, it seems that I could eliminate one step by using Shrink to rip/encode the file in 1 step vs. 2 by using Decrypter. What is the difference. One guide says to do it one way, and another guide will say to do it another. I'm confused and frustrated.

[Captain315]

Why is the DVD Shrink program so slow? I would much prefer to just use DVD Decrypter but from my limited understanding I can't do that if the disc size is over 4.7gb and I don't use dual layer discs. ......Where do I find these discs? But prior to doing that is there anything I can do to tweak the DVD Shrink speeds???

I almost always use DVDdecrypter to backup my movies. I use file mode so it is compatible with Shrink to bring it down to single layer capacity. The reason Shrink is "slow" is that it has to do an analysis before it can shrink to movie to size and encode it for burning.

You can set it to not do as deep an analysis and that will speed it up some. You sacrafice quality if you do though. Personally, I'd just let it take a little longer and get as good a copy as possible. Some of the programs out here don't do any better than Shrink and take all night to get it done. It's not that slow when you consider what it does.

[budz]

the only reason to rip with DECRYPTER first is sometimes DVD SHRINK will have redunancy errors in reading the dvd files therefore ripping with DECRYPTER will sometimes do a better job.

you can disable enable viewing in DVD SHRINK which will decrease the amount of time to transcode. also if you have a slow cpu then the transcoding will take a little longer compared to a faster cpu like a 3.0 ghz chip.

fill in your computer specs that way it is easier to help you out when you post questions in the forums.

[logixrat.01]

Thanks for the info thus far, especially about the value of having Decrypter. I really do like the program and think it would be wonderful to see them implement a transcoder into a new release. And yes, I also agree about waiting a few minutes extra for quality. It is just frustrating because I continually hear of other people who are doing this at 12x or better and I'm wondering why I'm stuck at 4x or less.

In regards to computer info, I did give some general info in my initial post. But here is more detailed info. Not trying to bore anyone, just what SiSoftware tells me about my computer.

SiSoftware Sandra

Processor
Model : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.53GHz
Speed : 2.53GHz
Performance Rating : PR2778 (estimated)
Type : Standard
Package : FC µPGA478
Rated Speed/FSB : 2530MHz / 4x 133MHz
Multiplier : 19/1x
Minimum/Maximum Multiplier : 0/1x / 19/1x
Generation : G8
Name : P4N (Northwood) Pentium 4C 130nm 1.6-3.4GHz 1.475-1.575V
Revision/Stepping : 2 / 7 (9)
Stepping Mask : C1
Microcode : MU0F2737
Core Voltage Rating : 1.550V
Maximum Physical / Virtual Addressing : 36-bit / 32-bit
Native Page Size : 4kB

Co-Processor (FPU)
Type : Built-in
Revision/Stepping : 2 / 7 (9)

Processor Cache(s)
Internal Data Cache : 8kB Synchronous, Write-Thru, 4-way set, 64 byte line size
Internal Trace Cache : 12kB Synchronous, Write-Thru, 8-way set, 64 byte line size
L2 On-board Cache : 512kB ECC Synchronous, ATC, 8-way set, 64 byte line size, 2 lines per sector
L2 Cache Multiplier : 1/1x (2525MHz)

Upgradeability
Socket/Slot : Microprocessor
Upgrade Interface : ZIF Socket
Supported Speed(s) : 3.06GHz+

Environment Monitor 1
Model : SMSC M10x/14x LPC
Mainboard Specific Support : No

Features
FPU - Co-Processor Built-in : Yes
VME - Virtual Mode Extensions : Yes
DE - Debugging Extension : Yes
PSE - Page Size Extension : Yes
TSC - Time Stamp Counter : Yes
MSR - Model Specific Registers : Yes
PAE - Physical Address Extension : Yes
MCE - Machine Check Exception : Yes
CX8 - Compare & Exchange Instruction : Yes
APIC - Local APIC Built-in : Yes
SEP - Fast System Call : Yes
MTRR - Memory Type Range Registers : Yes
PGE - Page Global Enable : Yes
MCA - Machine Check Architecture : Yes
PAT - Page Attribute Table : Yes
PSE36 - 36-bit Page Size Extension : Yes
PSN - Unique Serial Number : No
CLF - Cache Line Flush Support : Yes
DS - Debug Trace & EMON Store : Yes
ACPI - Software Clock Control : Yes
(W)MMX Technology : Yes
FXSR - Fast Float Save & Restore : Yes
SSE Technology : Yes
SSE2 Technology : Yes
SS - Self Snoop : Yes
HTT - Hyper-Threading Technology : No
TM - Thermal Monitor : Yes
PBE - Pending Break Enable : Yes
IA64 Technology : No
SSE3 Technology : No
MON - Monitor/MWait : No
DSCPL - CPL qualified Debug Store : No
EST - Enhanced SpeedStep Technology : No
TM2 - Thermal Monitor 2 : No
CID - Context ID : Yes
xTPR - Send Task Priority Messages : Yes
DAZ - Denormals Are Zero : Yes

Advanced Settings
Data Error Checking : No
Fast Strings : Yes
x86 FPU Compatibility Mode : No
Prefetch Queue : Yes
Branch Trace Storage : Yes
Data Cache Active Mode : Yes
IO Queue Depth : 12 request(s)
TM - Thermal Monitor : Yes

Machine Check Architecture Settings
Number of Reporting Banks : 4 bank(s)
Extended Machine Check Support : Yes
Number of Extended Reporting Banks : 12 bank(s)

*****

BIOS General Information
Manufacturer : Dell Computer Corporation
Version : A06
Date : 04/22/2003
Plug & Play Version : 1.00
SMBIOS/DMI Version : 2.30
(EE)PROM Size : 512kB

******

System
Manufacturer : Dell Computer Corporation
Model : Dimension 4550
Serial Number : *******

Mainboard
Manufacturer : Dell Computer Corp.
MP Support : 1 CPU(s)
MPS Version : 1.40
Model : 0M0321

System Memory Controller
Location : Mainboard
Error Correction Capability : None
Number of Memory Slots : 2
Maximum Installable Memory : 1GB
Bank 1 - DIMM_A : DIMM Synchronous SDRAM 256MB/64 @ 333Mt/s
Bank 2 - DIMM_B : Empty

Chipset 1
Model : Dell Computer Corp 82845G/GL/GV Brookdale Host-Hub Interface Bridge (A1-step)
Bus(es) : X-Bus AGP PCI IMB USB i2c/SMBus
Front Side Bus Speed : 4x 133MHz (532MHz data rate)
Maximum FSB Speed / Max Memory Speed : 4x 133MHz / 2x 166MHz
Width : 64-bit
IO Queue Depth : 8 request(s)

Chipset 1 Hub Interface
Type : Hub-Interface
Version : 1.50
Number of Ports : 1
Width : 8-bit
Full Duplex : Yes
Multiplier : 1/1x

Logical/Chipset 1 Memory Banks
Bank 0 : 256MB DDR-SDRAM 2.5-3-3-7CL 1CMD
Speed : 2x 166MHz (332MHz data rate)
Multiplier : 5/4x
Width : 64-bit
Refresh Rate : 15.60µs
Power Save Mode : No
Fixed Hole Present : No

APIC 1
Version : 2.00
Multiplier : 1/2x
Maximum Interrupts : 24
IRQ Handler Engaged : Yes
Enhanced Support : Yes

Memory Module(s)
Memory Module 1 : Nanya NT256D64S88ABG-6 4504010A 256MB 8x(32Mx8) DDR-SDRAM PC2700U-2533-700 (CL2.5 up to 167MHz) (CL2 up to 133MHz)

[RickTheRed]

Also, it seems that I could eliminate one step by using Shrink to rip/encode the file in 1 step vs. 2 by using Decrypter. What is the difference. One guide says to do it one way, and another guide will say to do it another. I'm confused and frustrated.

Nope,
There will always be two steps.
1) Ripping
2) recoding

1) Ripping
By using DVDShrink to rip, you only save the use of another software, but the step is still there and even longer. That's why most of us (I think) use dvddecrypter).

2) Recoding
DVDshrink does it in two steps (analysing and encoding), but it's pretty fast.

The only way you can cut time is by splitting your dvd in two discs. This is the fastest. But it may not suit your need.
Other engines exit, but I do not think they are free, and they will take the same time or longer.

If you want a quality backup, it's way better to use the deep analysis all the time with aec set at sharp for 80% compression ratio and up.

I select the option "shut down the computer when completed" and I run shrink before going to bed or leaving to work. This way, I do not really care about the time it takes to transcode.

One last thing: there are many guides out there. Although it might be confusing, don't you think it's preferable this way? :P

Oopps, another one: ripping a dvd9 in 15 minutes is normal. You will not reach speeds of 14-16x for dvd9, only for dvd-5. The dvd9 speed ramp up but it will slow down when it reaches the layer, as the diameter is now decreasing.

[logixrat.01]

Hmm, maybe I am doing something wrong. When I use Shrink for the entire process, I simply "Open Disc" and it does a quick analysis. Usually takes 2-3 minutes. Then from there I click on Backup and it starts the deep analysis and will then encode. For burning, I have it setup to use ISO and Decrypter, so it starts automatically after it encodes.

When I use Decrypter to rip the discs greater than 4gb I use the file method and that takes 15 minutes or so. Then I open Shrink and Open Files and the same processes happen as already described. In essence it adds about 15 minutes (or however long Decrypter takes) when using 2 programs.

Of course on smaller single layer discs, I just rip ISO images from Decrypter and then burn which saves all the Shrink time. Am I missing something or somehow repeating processes?

And yes, I agree...I want quality over time savings. I was just hopeful I could have both. I guess the reviews I read are pure ripping speeds, and really don't apply to Shrink at all. So I am correct to assume all Shrink users are stuck at the 4x speeds I am seeing and there is nothing I can do to increase that speed?

Of course if I could find dual layer discs at a reasonable price, I could just rip ISO's with Decrypter and wouldn't have to deal with quality or time issues with Shrink. I like that way best, but I still haven't found those discs yet.

[budz]

So I am correct to assume all Shrink users are stuck at the 4x speeds I am seeing and there is nothing I can do to increase that speed?

ripping a dvd-9 (DUAL LAYER DISC) in 15 min. is about right. let me get this straight you're saying 4x speed in ripping is all you can get and want to know if there is a way to increase that speed? you have a liteon dvdrom drive that has the ability to rip faster than most brands except for toshiba which has a hack firmware to rip faster. take a look at this link for your liteon dvdrom which has hack firmware to enable your drive to rip at a faster speed. but in all seriousness your rip time in DVD DECRYPTER is about right.

http://codeguys.rpc1.org/firmwares.html

[Deekkeed]

Hum. Well I have a Pioneer A08. (Retail version of the pioneer 108 I think) firmware 1.18 installed. Using smartripper I have been getting between 6x and 11x rips on an AMD athlon xp2000 with 256 Megs memory. It is strange that you only are getting 4x on yours. Also DVD shrink is taking about 10 to 15 minutes to transcode . So it’s about 18 to 24 minutes from start to finish.

I don’t have the answer why though.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Deek

[Deekkeed]

Ops I forgot i do not use deep analyzing on shrink. I never noticed any significant difference in the quality with deep analyst that’s worth the extra time it takes. And I view DVDs on a 65” projection. Just my opinion though..

deek

[logixrat.01]

Budz,

When using Decrypter, I have seen rip speeds up to about 12x at max. Typically the high is around 8x and the average is around 6x. But when I use Shrink, it performs the deep analysis and transcoding at a maximum of 4x or close to it. I've even encountered a few discs that will only transcode at around 1x to 2x. Since I can reach higher speeds with Decrypter I thought something was wrong with my setup on Shrink since it was going so slow in comparison.

You suggested I look for an alternate firmware and gave me a link. That is the site where I got the modified GDHJ firmware for my Lite-On drive. Are you suggesting I also use a modified firmware for my Pioneer drive?

DeekKeed,

From my limited knowledge, it appears SmartRipper is the same as Decrypter, just a ripper. As noted above, I am getting similar speeds using Decrypter by itself.

The slow down comes when using Shrink. Anytime I have a disc that needs more than 20-25% compression I always use the deep analysis. I read in a guide somewhere that doing the deep analysis more accurately compresses your backup. For instance, the quick analysis may say you will have 35% compression and may give you that or just a little more. Using the deep analysis will keep it at 35% and most likely a little less.

I have a 55" projection screen myself and I haven't tested highly compressed backups w/o deep analysis +to notice if there are any quality differences. I just always figured I wanted the best because I figure that sooner or later they will make plasma and LCD's affordable enough for me to own and I will upgrade.

Either way, taking off the deep analysis would cut my time in 1/2 I have no doubts. I'm just not sure I want to sacrifice the quality. I might make some test discs to verify if I can see the differences or not.


Am I off base in my thinking here, or is this typical of what everyone else is experiencing and doing?

[Deekkeed]

logixrat.01

Well I did some test today just to get some numbers to give you something to compare your data to.

System WinXP AMD xp2000 , 160 GB/7200 RPM HD, DVD pioneer A08
I ripped the movie only.

Video size 6.01 GB forced to 20% compression

Smartriper = 8:15min
Form HD using DVDshrink deep analyst
Analyzing 20 min
Encoding 14 min
Total = 42:15
DVD-burner usage = 8:15min

Using DVDshrink for ripping and encoding
Analyzing 20 min
Encoding 14 min
Total = 34 min
DVD-burner usage = 34 min

So I guess the only real concern is you save 8:00min of time but the DVDburner runs 4 times as long, using only DVD shrink. Also I see that the deep analyst is the time hog. but if it gives better results then it is probably worth the time.

Just thought I would let you know how it worked out on my end.

Deek