Good quality DVD template for (19mb/min) with 30fps, not 24.

[LordVader]

i'm looking for a good dvd template with an avg. of 20mb per minute using full 30fps.

most of us, make templates for movie encoding purposes, and it's a little bit easier to get the 4 hrs in one DVDr encoding at 24fps.

but at 30fps, it's another thing.

also.....

wich template was used for this encoding ?

http://www.kvcd.net/portal/articles.php?lng=en&pg=61

it doesn't mention anything bout the GOP structure.

[jimmalenko]

i'm looking for a good dvd template with an avg. of 20mb per minute using full 30fps.

Your thread title says 19MB/min, so which is it ?

most of us, make templates for movie encoding purposes, and it's a little bit easier to get the 4 hrs in one DVDr encoding at 24fps.

but at 30fps, it's another thing.

The frame rate makes no difference whatsoever. It's all about bitrate.

wich template was used for this encoding ?

"KVCD's "Notch" matrix" according to that page.


The amount of time that can fit on a DVD is entirely dependent on the bitrate used - bitrate X duration = size. so in the case of a DVDR, size is fixed. So you can see that different bitrates will allow different running times to fit - the lower the bitrate, the more time, and vice versa. So all you need to do is work out the total running time, then plug that into a bitrate calculator:



Then use the values it gives you, and it will fit on 1 DVDR.

[LordVader]

ok, but i was thinking about someting a little bit more complex, not just the bitrate.

Gop Structure
Quantize Matrix
Picture Spoilage
CQ - setting

i also do care about quality, not just disc space, you know

[jimmalenko]

ok, but i was thinking about someting a little bit more complex, not just the bitrate.

Gop Structure
Quantize Matrix
Picture Spoilage
CQ - setting

i also do care about quality, not just disc space, you know

Well, fark me then for answering your question as written !

I think your question might be better served at KVCD.net

[animatron]

http://www.kvcd.net/portal/articles.php?lng=en&pg=61

it doesn't mention anything bout the GOP structure.

I guess it doesn't, because KDVD is considered 100% DVD compliant
So if you are in NTSC land, you use a max GOP size of 18 frames, and if you are in PAL land, you use 15.

[LordVader]

thanks , let me give it a try

the red planet sample look "UFFFFFF", that's a total lie.

when i saw the flames without a single block, i almost shoot my self on face

[LordVader]

i'm still getting 30mb/min

i did a test with 20min of dvd (widescreen) and i'm getting an avg of 29mb per min.

[jimmalenko]

i'm still getting 30mb/min

i did a test with 20min of dvd (widescreen) and i'm getting an avg of 29mb per min.

ummmmm .... bitrate ?

[adam]

That Red Planet sample uses an average bitrate of 2759kbits. With 128kbits audio (very low) you'd only be able to fit about 3 and 1/2 hours on one DVD. If you are aiming for upwards of 4hrs per disk then you should not expect that same level of quality, generally.

[jimmalenko]

i'm still getting 30mb/min

i did a test with 20min of dvd (widescreen) and i'm getting an avg of 29mb per min.

By my calculations, you are using a combined audio and video bitrate of 3959kbps if you are averaging 29MB per min. If you want to get down to 19MB per min you need to use a combined audio and video bitrate of 2594kbps.

I did another calculation, and I think you're a touch high with 19MB per minute if your goal is for 4 hours on a DVD - 19 * 240 = 4560MB. I believe that 4482MB is the absolute most you'll get onto a DVD, which is 18.675MB per min, or a combined audio and video bitrate of 2549kbps.

[animatron]

That Red Planet sample uses an average bitrate of 2759kbits. With 128kbits audio (very low) you'd only be able to fit about 3 and 1/2 hours on one DVD. If you are aiming for upwards of 4hrs per disk then you should not expect that same level of quality, generally.

Seems you used bitrate viewer too determine that.
The average bitrate on that clip is 2,318KBps when dropped into VirtualDub.
Bitrate viewer gives incorrect information on average bitrates. This is well documented on doom9 and kvcd.net.
Also I'm pretty sure that the complete movie can't possibly have that high average bitrate, because that clip is very active. I've seen Red Planet, and there are a lot of almost still scenes, so the average bitrate must fluctuate way lower than 2,318KBps.
Even at 2,362.7Kbps, quick test in calcumatic with DVD mux overhead with 128KBps audio (yes, I agree it's way too low for DVD audio) you would still get 240 minutes on one DVD media. And that's one darn good looking clip for 4 hours of video!

[animatron]

i'm still getting 30mb/min

Try calcumatic, and let it figure out the final size you want.

[animatron]

@LordVader,

Maybe this is what you want to do:



That would be the case to fit 4 hours on one DVD, with 192KBps audio.
The average bitrate is exactly 2298.7, and doing a quick math, that gives you 17240.31 MB per minute.

[LordVader]

WOW, those settings are very much credible to my eyes for 4hrs. good job.

i've been doing some tests using another settings, and i'm getting right now 25mb/min, with almost none quality drop.

The results are almost exactly the source.

let me try your settings

[jimmalenko]

The *very* first response you got gave you these figures for bitrate, and I've been telling you it's bitrate all along, but anyway .......



Oh well, you can lead a horse to water .......

[LordVader]

i'm sorry, i just that, i'm a little bit paranoid, and i'm one those who think that you're not going to get something like that with just a simple value.

like a said before, i'm not just interested in space, also quality.

every single detail it's important to me, in the settings. You are the experts. you should know that

but, anyway... in order to use an avg bitrate. the only possible setting is 2-pass VBR, right ?

[animatron]

but, anyway... in order to use an avg bitrate. the only possible setting is 2-pass VBR, right ?

Wrong.
Use cqmatic and that tool will find the correct cq value to encode your movie, based on the average bitrate that you give it. And you'll get better results than a 2-pass encode.

[LordVader]

ok, i got it

[LordVader]

no, i didn't got anything.

i used to be a fu#king genius on this. but i have like a year without encoding anything, for being reading a sound recording forum learning some other stuffs.

so i've missed lot of thing here.

i will really appreciate your help guys.

what the fu#k cqmatic is ? i mean, this program is just for calculate the CQ value ? is just that ?

ok, now what, with tmpgenc ?

[animatron]

no, i didn't got anything.

what the fu#k cqmatic is ? i mean, this program is just for calculate the CQ value ? is just that ?

Yes, it automates tmpeg in cq mode and finds optimal cq for the movie you want. It works in tandem with calcumatic.
You can use it to create VCDs,SVCDs,DVDs,KVCDs,KDVDs or XYZZDs .
Look on their front page. There's more info and links there: www.kvcd.net

[jimmalenko]

Use cqmatic and that tool will find the correct cq value to encode your movie, based on the average bitrate that you give it. And you'll get better results than a 2-pass encode.

It's a big risk to use CQ if you're trying to accurately hit a target size, and if the size is of a concern (so quality comparison aside), 2-pass VBR is more accurate every time.

[animatron]

It's a big risk to use CQ if you're trying to accurately hit a target size, and if the size is of a concern (so quality comparison aside), 2-pass VBR is more accurate every time.

Hey jimmalenko, have you tried the latest version of cqmatic?
It's hitting a 1% to 2% accuracy on final encoded file size, compared to the file size calculated by a bitrate calculator.
I know 2-pass is very accurate, but it's not optimized for quality. It's optimized for bitrate distribution, and that make a hell of a difference!
I prefer quality over size any time, and I know cq prediction has always been a pain in the arse. But I think this tool is now very accurate, and the quality difference from cq to 2-pass is a lot. Give it a try, because I've had excelent results in the last couple of days, with final size offsets of only 5 to 10 megabytes after a full encode. And that's pretty good for a cq encode.

[jimmalenko]

Hey jimmalenko, have you tried the latest version of cqmatic?

I can't say I have

It's hitting a 1% to 2% accuracy on final encoded file size, compared to the file size calculated by a bitrate calculator.
I know 2-pass is very accurate, but it's not optimized for quality.

True hence the "quality comparison aside" disclaimer

It's optimized for bitrate distribution, and that make a hell of a difference!
I prefer quality over size any time, and I know cq prediction has always been a pain in the arse. But I think this tool is now very accurate, and the quality difference from cq to 2-pass is a lot. Give it a try, because I've had excellent results in the last couple of days, with final size offsets of only 5 to 10 megabytes after a full encode. And that's pretty good for a cq encode.

Bloody oath it is ! I'll check it out